lee
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| posted on 25/1/08 at 02:12 PM |
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pinto bhp
can anyone tell me what the "standard" bhp output for a 1600 and 2000 pinto actually is?
I see all sorts of claims for uprated output, but from what?
cheers
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 25/1/08 at 02:19 PM |
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http://www.burtonpower.com/technical_1/sohc_pinto.aspx
The Pinto engine seems to have been around for ever and its strengths and weaknesses ought to be well known by now. For what is basically a very
simple engine design there are complexities, especially in the valve train, that mean that many tuned engines don't realise anything like their
full potential. Made over the years in 1.3, 1.6, 1.8 and 2 litre capacities, it is mainly the 2 litre that is of interest for tuning purposes. Anyone
with a smaller engine would do well to fit a 2 litre as a first step - they are plentiful enough in breakers yards. 100 bhp per litre is just about
possible with the Pinto engine but it takes very good head work and attention to detail in the valve train. Not many rally/race spec engines actually
make more than 160 bhp if they are put together from off the shelf parts. Copyright David Baker and Puma Race Engines
[Edited on 25/1/08 by Mr Whippy]
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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snapper
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| posted on 25/1/08 at 02:19 PM |
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1600 about 84
2000 about 100
2000 with injection head about 105 to 110
add a four branch exhaust a 285 cam and a DGAS weber from a 3litre V6 close to 130
After this its head work to about 150 after this its really special work and lots of money
Have a look at Vulcan engineering for power outputs and cost
[Edited on 25/1/08 by snapper]
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 25/1/08 at 02:21 PM |
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less life aswell
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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snapper
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| posted on 25/1/08 at 02:31 PM |
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Lots of people over quote there BHP the only true test is a rolling road.
The head and the valve train is the key to good bhp in the Pinto.
There are lots of little tricks that will give you a few extra bhp, a very good start is the single overhead cam injection engine, the rods will go to
7200 helping a lumpy cam to work, the head has much better inlet flow with a smoother short side turn.
A thinner head gasket will give 0.5 to 0.7 increase in compression ratio.
a 285 or 300 duration cam could add 15 to 20bhp
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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Tinks1
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| posted on 25/1/08 at 03:03 PM |
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I have a letter from Ford technical department stating that my 2.0l Pinto May 1988 with 2V Weber produces 105 bhp in standard form
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indykid
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| posted on 25/1/08 at 03:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by snapper
1600 about 84
[Edited on 25/1/08 by snapper]
i wish!
to the best of my knowledge, the 1593 started out with 75PS, so about 74bhp
tom
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ditchlewis
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| posted on 25/1/08 at 04:24 PM |
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i seem to recall from the haynes manual that the 1600cc had 74 bhp and the 2000cc had 105 to 108Bhp
if you want to make over the 150bhp it is indeed very expensive i will not say how much i've spent on the engine (incase SWMBO
reads this) but it was more than a grand more than the delux kit
but  with about 160bhp it goes
ditch
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carpmart
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| posted on 25/1/08 at 06:16 PM |
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Its an engine that responds very well to a bit of boost 
Cheap way to get 160 ponies plus
I have a Janspeed pinto turbo manifold I may be persuaded to sell if you twist my arm hard enough!
You only live once - make the most of it!
Radical Clubsport, Kwaker motor
'94 MX5 MK1, 1.8
F10 M5 - 600bhp Daily Hack
Range Rover Sport - Wife's Car
Mercedes A class - Son's Car
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jacko
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| posted on 25/1/08 at 06:42 PM |
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I have a pinto that has 140 bhp at the rear wheels that was on a r/road so what % do you use to work out the fly wheel bhp ?
Jacko
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lee
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| posted on 25/1/08 at 07:06 PM |
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bhp
Thanks guys, that was what I wanted.
so 1600= about 80bhp and 2000=about 100bhp
At least now I can work out where Im going.
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jacko
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| posted on 25/1/08 at 07:19 PM |
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Lee if we can help in any way just ask
Jacko
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andy bird
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| posted on 29/1/08 at 07:51 PM |
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turbo on carbs or on efi?
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DarrenW
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| posted on 29/1/08 at 10:10 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jacko
I have a pinto that has 140 bhp at the rear wheels that was on a r/road so what % do you use to work out the fly wheel bhp ?
Jacko
At boggs mine made 120 at wheels and they estimated flywheel to be approx 140 so i guess that is 15 - 20%. Interestingly Dave didnt have a good word
to say about the FR32 i fitted and suggested this was limiting power potential. Another vote for Piper A8 was made.
Comment ref people overstating BHP figures seems to be oh so very true, possibly from Ford too as the figures quoted seem to be marketing specs and
probs the max achieved from a particular batch of engines prepared for press launch cars. All i can say is that 120 at wheels makes these cars sing
and dance.
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mcerd1
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| posted on 30/1/08 at 10:49 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DarrenW
At boggs mine made 120 at wheels and they estimated flywheel to be approx 140
what's the spec of your engine ?
that's about the kind of power I'm hoping for when I (eventually) get my car on their rollers
I've got an EFI head with 3 angle valve seats and nothing else done yet and a Piper 285 cam
The blocks bored to 93mm (2090cc) and the head & block have been skimmed to take the CR up to ~11:1
and I'll be running it on ZX9R carbs (from Boggs) and Megajolt (from PaulF)
anyone want to guess how it'll do..... (assuming I put it together right of course  )
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DarrenW
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| posted on 30/1/08 at 11:46 AM |
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Mine is stock standard 2.0 bottom end thats done about 50K. Flywheel lightened a bit (just the mass taken off the back, not undercut in any way).
Injection head, diy ported, 40" skim, seats recut but not 3 angled. FR32 cam (not really wild enough for a sports car but ticks over nice and
power delivery is really smooth). Megajolt ignition, 4 - 2 - 1 stainless system (Mac#1 using vizard principles). Fuelling taken care of by set of
ZZR1100 carbs on boggs manifold.
120bhp doesnt sound a lot but im fairly confident its a true figure (i wonder if a different tuner could feasibly report 130 without touching the
car??). Car certainly shifts a bit. It has been said that a bit more care on the valve train and a better cam could see a bit more.
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mcerd1
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| posted on 30/1/08 at 02:02 PM |
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I've been told there isn't much in it between the piper 285 and kent FR32, but they are a bit different on paper and I haven't tried
either yet.
*Piper 285 -> PB= 2200-7000, In. dur= 270°, Ex. dur= 290°, lift= 11.81mm
*Kent FR32 -> PB= 2500-7000, In. dur= 285°, Ex. dur= 280°, In. lift= 11.22mm, Ex. Lift= 10.92
*Piper A8 -> PB= 2800-7800, dur= 304°, lift= 12.7mm
but there are loads of different ones for pinto's
*Piper 300 -> PB= 2500-7500, dur= 292°, lift= 12.57mm
*Piper 320 -> PB= 4000-8500, dur= 322°, lift= 13.7mm
*Piper 947 -> PB= 3000-7900, dur= 300°, lift= 12.95mm
never mind the other piper ones, kent ones, burton ones, newmans, holbay........... and most are designed for race/ rally or road but with heavy cars
- so all you can do is try one that someone you trust recommends
rather than lighten the flywheel I've got a steel flywheel (5.5kg with ring gear from burtons - far too expensive, but I needed it to fit the
crank & clutch I wanted) and the exhaust is the Dax std. one (4-1)
I've also had the bottom end balanced (piston, rods, crank, flywheel & clutch) and got a vernier cam pulley (kent steel one)
I've had the absolute min. skimmed off the block and then the pistons where topped by about 0.060" [1.5mm] to correct there CR height
(I'm using longer cossie rods) and make them flush to the top of the block - then the head was skimmed to bring up the ratio the rest of the way
(I'm not sure how much he took off in the end)
are the ZZR1100 carbs much bigger than the ZX9R ones ?
(BTW - mine is definatly not a 'locost' pinto, it would be cheaper to get a std. 2.0 duratec )
[Edited on 30/1/08 by mcerd1]
[Edited on 30/1/08 by mcerd1]
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DarrenW
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| posted on 30/1/08 at 03:06 PM |
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Our local engine builder says there is quite a bit to gain by machining the block height and matching the cylinder head. He also swares by retaining
the 2.0 capacity but paying attention to head porting, valve train geometry and balancing. Same guy built Mookaloid a very nice Pinto. He also gets
his cams made to won spec which certainly seem to work (but wont say what the spec is) - AndyD has one in his.
It sounds like you may be a touch above 120bhp when that is finished.
Im not sure how those carbs compare, i think the ZZR chokes are around 41mm.
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mcerd1
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| posted on 30/1/08 at 05:26 PM |
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When you say a 'touch above 120' are you meaning at the wheels ? (he asks hopefuly)
I'm not aiming too high just now anyway, just a little more than standard and get it tested and on the road, then I'll sort the head later
when want some more power (maybe even a cossie NA head - if I can find a cheap one lol )
quote:
Originally posted by DarrenW
Im not sure how those carbs compare, i think the ZZR chokes are around 41mm.
I think the ZX9R is about 38 - 39mm (I can't remember, I'm sure somone on here will correct me) they are of a later bike (E or F model)
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jacko
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| posted on 30/1/08 at 05:29 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
quote:
Originally posted by DarrenW
At boggs mine made 120 at wheels and they estimated flywheel to be approx 140
what's the spec of your engine ?
that's about the kind of power I'm hoping for when I (eventually) get my car on their rollers
I've got an EFI head with 3 angle valve seats and nothing else done yet and a Piper 285 cam
The blocks bored to 93mm (2090cc) and the head & block have been skimmed to take the CR up to ~11:1
and I'll be running it on ZX9R carbs (from Boggs) and Megajolt (from PaulF)
anyone want to guess how it'll do..... (assuming I put it together right of course )
I will guess at 140bhp at the rear wheels .
your engine spec is about the same as mine
rebore 90thou
p/max pistons
1mm plained of the head
piper 285 cam
light fly wheel
zx9r carbs on home made manifold
a lot of head work polish/porting
H&H dizzy
+balancing
Jacko
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mcerd1
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| posted on 30/1/08 at 05:51 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jacko
I will guess at 140bhp at the rear wheels .
your engine spec is about the same as mine
Well apart from the 'polish/porting' - so maybe not quite that much, but later on once the cars been on the road a while
I was going to get an H&H dizzy (recommended to me by bogg's) but I got talked into megajolt so I'll have to find something to sort
out the oil pump drive and something else to mount a trigger wheel on.....
I did get a high torque starter and a nice little altenator from H&H (note to self: don't take so much cash to stonleigh this year )
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:{THC}:YosamiteSam
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| posted on 31/1/08 at 02:31 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by lee
Thanks guys, that was what I wanted.
so 1600= about 80bhp and 2000=about 100bhp
At least now I can work out where Im going.
lee - if i were in your boots and thinking of engines - i would put in a newer engine ie zetec - same dimensions as the pinto really only twin cam as
standard - still run your carbs - i picked up a 1.8 for 200 squids easy to get a genuine 160bhp without spending at all
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britishtrident
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| posted on 31/1/08 at 07:48 AM |
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Silk purse from a rotting sow's ear.
A standard 1.4 K16 produces more real power than a 2 litre Pinto.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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DarrenW
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| posted on 31/1/08 at 09:24 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
Silk purse from a rotting sow's ear.
Ooooh you bitch
Some people rebuild old cars rather than buying a cheaper faster new one - there is just something about the old stuff.
Cant argue with the 16V comments, we live and learn eh!!
Mcerd1 - oil pump drive and VR bracket arent as bad as they sound to sort out. Le me know if i can be of any assistance when the time comes to
fabricate the bits. Ive had less success with throttle position sensor so if your carbs have one built in you are onto a winner.
Edit to ad - yes bhp at wheels.
[Edited on 31/1/08 by DarrenW]
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lee
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| posted on 31/1/08 at 11:32 AM |
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engine
The car I am thinking of putting a pinto into is an RMB Gentry, (Triumph Herald base, and an Alluminium body) which is a replica of a 1955 MGtf. So,
with a long and VERY narrow bonnet it is a question of space.
I doubt a dohc would squeeze in, also, as the car is so light (about700kg)
I really dont need masses of bhp to push it around. Besides which 1960's brakes, steering and suspenders coupled with a pokey engine would be a
scary prospect!!
So the basic idea is to end up with a fun car, stay alive, and for it to be reliable.
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