daffy
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| posted on 19/11/05 at 02:48 PM |
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Personally i wouldn't mind seeing as many bits of the MX-5 being used. Especially the LSD! :-)
As regards interchangeability of parts between VW models post-'91, I can help with that. Make me an exact list of which parts you want to know
about and i'll let you know.
Just so that i feel that i contribute something to the site instead of just leeching.
[Edited on 19/11/05 by daffy]
Smile..........it makes others worry
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cymtriks
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| posted on 19/11/05 at 05:21 PM |
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Existing aftermarket hubs
Here are some examples of alloy hubs already on the market. They are from Raceleda and Lusso Motors.
http://www.raceleda.co.uk/products.htm
http://www.lusomotors.com/product.html
Both of these suppliers copy the original Ford layout which, based on a back of an envelope calculation for the Raceleda Escort uprights, gives a very
high scrub of around 45mm for a wheel with a standard ET / offset of 38mm
This seems very high. Staniforth in his book "Race and rally car source book" advised 0mm scrub. Mazda also chose 0mm for the Miata/MX5.
Lotus used 10.5mm for the Elise. Oddly a very high sounding value is quoted for the Ultima on Jay Esters very interesting website but it's also
one of the first things he decides to change. Check this site out.
http://www.ultimav12.ca/
Interestingly the Lusso Motors upright use a fwd hub so it can be used at the front or rear of the car.
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Rorty
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| posted on 19/11/05 at 10:02 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daffy
Personally i wouldn't mind seeing as many bits of the MX-5 being used. Especially the LSD! :-)
Well, I suppose the diff could well be incorporated or at least modelled as an alternative to the Sierra. We may as well make it as easy for people as
possible, though I draw the line at re-doing the windscreen frame. 
quote:
Originally posted by daffy
As regards interchangeability of parts between VW models post-'91, I can help with that. Make me an exact list of which parts you want to know
about and i'll let you know.
That would be terrific!
I added a list of all the required parts to the very first post in this thread to make it easier for all to find, but here it is again anyway.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The dimensions of the following components are required from a Mk IV Golf/Jetta/Bora/R32 ('98-'03) or in the US, A4
Golf/Jetta/Bora/R32 ('98.5-'04):
1. 5-stud front and rear hubs.
2. Outer CV/stub axle and axle.
3. Rear bolt-on stub axle.
4. Solid (9mm) and ventilated (20mm-30mm) front discs.
5. Solid (9mm) and ventilated (20mm) rear discs.
6. Aluminium rear calliper.
7. Tie rod end.
8. Manual steering rack.
Maybe you know someone who works in a VW dealership? If you have any trade catalogues with dimensioned diagrams of any of the items, then I'd
welcome that info too.
If you have the parts, but aren't sure how to go about extracting the data, email me and I'll gladly give you instructions on how to
accurately take the measurements.
If you can help with dimensions of any of the above parts, please let me know and specify the model and year please.
I'm also happy (in fact I would prefer) to receive actual parts and reverse engineer them myself, so if anyone can source any of the parts and
post them to me, I promise faithfully I'll return them within a week.
I've seen most of the parts appearing on eBay, so perhaps some of you who are interested in this project would consider buying even one item
each or sharing the cost of one item with others to get this project underway.
Just one of each component is all that's necessary. 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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Rorty
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| posted on 19/11/05 at 10:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by cymtriks
Here are some examples of alloy hubs already on the market. They are from Raceleda and Lusso Motors.
http://www.raceleda.co.uk/products.htm
http://www.lusomotors.com/product.html
Both of these suppliers copy the original Ford layout which, based on a back of an envelope calculation for the Raceleda Escort uprights, gives a very
high scrub of around 45mm for a wheel with a standard ET / offset of 38mm
This seems very high. Staniforth in his book "Race and rally car source book" advised 0mm scrub. Mazda also chose 0mm for the Miata/MX5.
Lotus used 10.5mm for the Elise. Oddly a very high sounding value is quoted for the Ultima on Jay Esters very interesting website but it's also
one of the first things he decides to change. Check this site out.
http://www.ultimav12.ca/
Interestingly the Lusso Motors upright use a fwd hub so it can be used at the front or rear of the car.
None of the above are compatible with the VW components we're aiming to employ.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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cymtriks
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| posted on 19/11/05 at 10:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Rorty
quote:
Originally posted by cymtriks
Here are some examples of alloy hubs already on the market. They are from Raceleda and Lusso Motors.
http://www.raceleda.co.uk/products.htm
http://www.lusomotors.com/product.html
Both of these suppliers copy the original Ford layout which, based on a back of an envelope calculation for the Raceleda Escort uprights, gives a very
high scrub of around 45mm for a wheel with a standard ET / offset of 38mm
This seems very high. Staniforth in his book "Race and rally car source book" advised 0mm scrub. Mazda also chose 0mm for the Miata/MX5.
Lotus used 10.5mm for the Elise. Oddly a very high sounding value is quoted for the Ultima on Jay Esters very interesting website but it's also
one of the first things he decides to change. Check this site out.
http://www.ultimav12.ca/
Interestingly the Lusso Motors upright use a fwd hub so it can be used at the front or rear of the car.
None of the above are compatible with the VW components we're aiming to employ.
I never said they were!
The Lusso Motors upright can be used all round and does employ an fwd hub so it's pretty close to my suggested design route and also pretty
close to your preffered route for the rear uprights, you just need to swap Ford bits for VW bits in the design. You can actually download drawings
from their website.
I was pointing out designs of hub that, possibly, we could copy or modify. Drawings are available from both sites. Does this give a head start? Can
anything be learned from these designs? Has anyone on this Forum used these hubs?
I was also pointing out that the available hubs all seem to copy what appears to be a very high scrub radius geometry. I can't see any reason
for this in a new Locost design.
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Rorty
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| posted on 20/11/05 at 12:35 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by cymtriks
I was pointing out designs of hub that, possibly, we could copy or modify. Drawings are available from both sites. Does this give a head start?
Ah well, that's different then. I'll have a look at them. About a year ago I posted a pic of an aluminium upright I've done
here.
quote:
Originally posted by cymtriksI was also pointing out that the available hubs all seem to copy what appears to be a very high scrub
radius geometry. I can't see any reason for this in a new Locost design.
More steering feedback? They are a very light car.
That's why I thought a bit more scrub radius than your proposed 10mm might be a good idea.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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wilkingj
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| posted on 20/11/05 at 10:35 AM |
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I havent read the whole thread...
But... Being a Land Rover Man through and through.. Look at Series Three Land Rover Track Rod Joints. Tough as old boots. Large, never ending supply
available from a lot of places. Best of all CHEAP.
www.paddockspares.com is the place to start. Just follow your nose to the Series 2/3 pages.
Most Paddoce Parts are either OEM or pattern, and rarley Genuine Green Boxed LR parts. However, Most peopl I know use them and some of the other
dealers. I have used paddocks for years.
Eg.. My Clutch Master Cylinder is Land Rover Series 3. Genuine Girling, cost me £19 (pattern was £9). From Kit Car Dealers was Over £30+.
There were over 2 Million Series Threes made, and probably 60% Plus are still running (Seen the stats in one of the mags).
Plentiful spares at reasonable costs..
MOST Parts were from British Leyland cars from the 70's, and a huge amount of commonality exists in that area.
Whilst I cannot guarantee their suitability strength etc.. Someone with more technical knowlege can take up that investigation.
1. The point of a journey is not to arrive.
2. Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Best Regards
Geoff
http://www.v8viento.co.uk
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Stephant
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 posted on 20/11/05 at 10:45 AM |
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hubs
Hi
I'm Stephan from Germany and that's ,why my english may sound strange,sometimes.
I'm working on a midengined project and plan to use selfmade urights for several reasons:
1. they will be "availeble" for ever
2. for those knowing a little about suspension geomotrie, there's more freedom in design.
3. unsprung weight.
4.you get a quick steering(if liked) without having to buy a quick rack(will be a mini rack with extensions for me)
Rorty postet an adress ,where trailer stubs and hubs can be bought.I've tried to get drawings or measurements of the HG515 hubs,but they
did'nt answer me.
Can anyone help.
For the rear uprights ,there are precision seamless steel tubes as starting point.
I've bought one with a inner dia of 72mm and 6mm wall thickness,which gives VW Golf front bearings (mk 1-3 and several other VW's)a tight
fit.The rest is made of two laser cut and bended 3mm Steelparts.
The reason for chosing VW parts is ,that new! parts can be bought for allmost nothing ,over here and the 4x100mm weels are used by Opel/Vauxhall, VW
and several japaneese cars,so finding cheap weels will be no problem
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daffy
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| posted on 20/11/05 at 12:30 PM |
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[quote=rorty]
Maybe you know someone who works in a VW dealership? If you have any trade catalogues with dimensioned diagrams of any of the items, then I'd
welcome that info too.
If you have the parts, but aren't sure how to go about extracting the data, email me and I'll gladly give you instructions on how to
accurately take the measurements.
If you can help with dimensions of any of the above parts, please let me know and specify the model and year please.
I'm also happy (in fact I would prefer) to receive actual parts and reverse engineer them myself, so if anyone can source any of the parts and
post them to me, I promise faithfully I'll return them within a week.
I've seen most of the parts appearing on eBay, so perhaps some of you who are interested in this project would consider buying even one item
each or sharing the cost of one item with others to get this project underway.
Just one of each component is all that's necessary.
Can't send any parts unfortunately. I live in greece (bred down under though). Suffice to say though that my ties with vw run deeper than most.
i doubt finding the dimensions will be a problem but i'll need a few days cos i'm on call at work monday/tuesday
[Edited on 20/11/05 by daffy]
Smile..........it makes others worry
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Rorty
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| posted on 20/11/05 at 10:12 PM |
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That's great news and much appreciated.
I've short-listed the 04/'75-06/'96 VW Transporter LT 40/45 outer TRE for the front upper balljoint. It has a M18x1.5 RH thread.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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Rorty
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| posted on 21/11/05 at 05:20 AM |
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I'd like to establish the rear and front track (in that order) and to do that, I require the width of the Sierra (and MX5/Miata – why not?)
diffs from CV mounting face to CV mounting face. It would probably be easier to measure the entire width of the flanges and then subtract 2x the
height of the raised shoulders on the drive flanges.
I have factory data on the length of the VW "axles" which I understood to be the whole axle assembly (axle shaft, inner CV and outer CV),
but some doubt has been cast on my assumption.
On each car there are two lengths of axles and there are two versions, so that makes a total of four different axles on late G3 and G4 cars. According
to VW, the lengths of the pairs of "axles" are: LH 455.5mm & RH 691.5mm and LH 447.4mm & RH 681.5mm.
It would be pretty obvious if one measured any of the four different axles whether the dimension refers to the assembly, or just the axle shaft.
Would some of you kind folk please confirm the diff width and "axle" length?
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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smdl
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| posted on 22/11/05 at 03:54 PM |
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Sorry if this is a basic question, but will a rear-steer rack cause any conflict with the engine positioning? I know that this configuration was
discussed as an option, but not sure if that is the current thinking. I was planning to place the engine as far forward as possible to avoid the
heavy rear weight bias that a number of people have ended up with.
Shaun
[Edited on 22/11/05 by smdl]
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JoelP
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| posted on 22/11/05 at 06:46 PM |
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what cars would end up with a rear weight bias? Even if it made it as high as 55% rear id still try to get the engine as far back as possible, to
minimise the cars moment or inertia. A rear steer rack would also help this.
Rorty, if you find any parts on OZ ebay, i dont mind having a bid for you. This thread isnt much use to me as im not going to build a locost in the
near future, but i would like to help the plan progress 
[Edited on 22/11/05 by JoelP]
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Rorty
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| posted on 22/11/05 at 08:08 PM |
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Joel, that's very generous of you. I'll keep an eye out on eBay and let you know if anything comes up.
I think if others join in, we should post who is bidding on what parts to prevent a bidding war between forum members.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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smdl
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| posted on 22/11/05 at 10:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
what cars would end up with a rear weight bias? Even if it made it as high as 55% rear id still try to get the engine as far back as possible, to
minimise the cars moment or inertia. A rear steer rack would also help this.
[Edited on 22/11/05 by JoelP]
Several people on the Locost North America group have weighed their completed cars, and have been surprised by the the amount of rear weight bias.
Figures of 56 - 58% for book-sized chassis (mostly Miata) seem to be common, and this is with front-steer. I am concerned about about increasing this
further.
Here is a excerpt from a message that seemed to sum up (IMHO) the discussion on that thread:
"G'Day Wayne,
I've noticed that we all tend to put the motor/gearbox
assembly as far back as we can in the Locosts, mostly it seems to get the
gear change where we want it. I've had a look at a genuine Lotus 7 series 3
recently and the motor is a lot further forward. I've got probably 500mm
between the front of the motor and the frame on mine. Also on average you're
adding 160Kg minimum to the rear weight when running two up.
Regards,
Mike Laws"
My thought was to shift things forward a bit, although still behind the front wheels.
Looking at pictures of several Caterhams, it is clear that they mount the powertrain much further forward.
Any thoughts are appreciated. I'm just at the point of starting my chassis (on hold as a result of this thread), and am just trying to gain
knowledge as I go along.
Thanks,
Shaun
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JoelP
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| posted on 22/11/05 at 11:05 PM |
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it it did get to 60% rear weight, i would try to lighten the back end, not add weight to the front. Ive never weighed mine, so i couldnt comment on
how much it affects handling. However, moving the fuel tank forward would be one option for me, or use a bike engine. Also, i wouldnt bother with a
full sized locost chassis for a bike engine anyway, as its a waste of wheelbase.
Either way, its you car so build it as you see fit! 
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Rorty
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| posted on 22/11/05 at 11:12 PM |
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Could a few people please confirm the distance between, say, a 4-cylinder car engine/bike engine and the current front-mounted rack? Links to a few
pictures would be good too.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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SilverFox
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| posted on 24/11/05 at 08:36 PM |
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Diff Dimensions
Per Rorty's earlier request, I don't have a Sierra diff, but did measure a 7 1/2" Merkur XR4Ti diff if it is of any interest and
comparison - use a tape so maybe within 1 mm or so.
a) distance between flanges = 12 1/16" (say 306 mm).
b) about the pinion C/line LH = 6.875" (175 mm) and RH = 5.1875" (131.7 mm).
c) Bottom mount'g face width = 6 15/16"
d) Top mount'g face = 7 5/8" (193.6 mm)with LH = 4.125" (104.7 mm) about pinion c/line and RH = 3.50" (88.9 mm).
Will try to measure the driveshaft lenghts to compare with VW lengths quoted by Rorty.
Alf
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JoelP
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| posted on 26/11/05 at 07:41 PM |
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i have 8 inches between the front of my 4 cyl crossflow engine and the steering rack. The horns are here but could easily be moved.
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Rorty
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| posted on 26/11/05 at 08:26 PM |
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The centre of the escort rack lies about 118mm in front of the (Cortina) axle line in a Book Locost, so placing the Golf rack behind the axle (even
with shorter steering arms - for quicker steering) sounds like it may be too close.
I'll have to model it all and check for fit.
Thanks JoelP for your input.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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scotmac
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| posted on 27/11/05 at 12:59 AM |
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I understand the point about the very prevalent VW parts, and there availability worldwide, and their future availability. And just for those reasons,
this effort is worthwhile. Also, i very much like the idea of lesser expensive performance based uprights and hubs.
However, what are the pure performance reasons for the new design? eg, let's say someone has a zf/quaife sierra diff, sierra axles, lusomotors
uprights/hubs all round (not THAT expensive, and good geometry), wide front wishbones (to match the back), etc.
That would give them a KPI of 4.8deg, and a scrub radius around 15mm (based on the improved luso hubs, and a guess on the wheels/tires), and lets
assume an ok caster (say around 7deg, which can be done, regardless of the above components).
That would give them pretty much the same performance as being proposed here, right?
But, the VW stuff does still have that availability thing...and they are likely to be cheaper...and more in tune w/ the locost culture.
Keep up the good work.
Cheers, -sm
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SilverFox
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| posted on 29/11/05 at 04:11 AM |
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Axles measured
FWIW the Merkur axles as measured with tape are LH = 476.2 mm and RH = 517.5 mm. Shaft Diameter is 28 mm and Lobros are 6 bolt on 86 mm PCD, 100 mm
OD
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Rorty
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| posted on 29/11/05 at 08:16 PM |
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Thanks SilverFox, I'll add that data to the list.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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SilverFox
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| posted on 30/11/05 at 01:24 AM |
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Cheers Rorty. I wonder if others could post similar data on the Uk Sierra. be interested to compare.
Alf
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jcduroc
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| posted on 1/12/05 at 08:15 PM |
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[Edited on 1/12/05 by jcduroc]
How do I publish a pdf here?
[Edited on 1/12/05 by jcduroc]
JCM
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