rocket
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| posted on 6/7/05 at 08:15 AM |
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tube
erw has to be a certain standard if you buy from a quality supplier as lengths of each batch are tested.
Thin wall st/st is made in exactly the same matter!
If anyone should have such worries use seamless tube for the entire chassis. But it will almost double the price.
Having said that all st/st seamless tubing is annealed so would be better for stress.
Rgds
Roger
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 6/7/05 at 08:59 AM |
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While I was teaching myself to MIG weld I would join some bits of erw mild steel tube, as well as I was able, then try to wreck them with a 2lb
hammer.
Although some of my early welds gave up the ghost, and sometimes the metal itself would tear, I never, ever, managed to get a tube seam to split.
The quality of those erw seam welds is extremely high.
David
[Edited on 6/7/05 by David Jenkins]
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NS Dev
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| posted on 6/7/05 at 12:09 PM |
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heh heh!!!!
that's what you think!!!
I happen to be in a unique position regarding the quality of NDT testing of tube. (As well as working for a leading tube manufacturer myself!!!) I
cannot say more on here but Mike R has met the person who has given me this knowledge!!
They say "NDT tested" meaning it has been through an NDT machine. In some cases with one manufacturer, the machine was not switched
on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In another case, there was an error with operation (which I really cannot go into on here) which had been such for a year and would have caused zero
rejects whatever the quality of incoming tube!!!!
I have already said too much so I will shut up now but believe me, this is through personal experience in recent months!
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quattromike
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| posted on 6/7/05 at 03:21 PM |
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All being said i'd still rather run around on top of a tig welded stainless frame than a mig welded mildsteel frame , because everyone knows mig
welding is far from an perfect .Or if thay don't they should! Even if it looks ok you don't know it's a sound weld , with cold lap
or lack of fusion common. But with tig if it looks right it most likely is
Mike.
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907
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| posted on 6/7/05 at 08:05 PM |
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To Back or Not to Back, that is the question
Hi Chaps,
Below, (I hope) is a pic of the underside of a couple of full penetration tig welds,
one with argon backing & one without.
I know which one I'd rather have on my chassis.
Paul G
 
Rescued attachment chassis welding 001s.jpg
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rocket
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| posted on 6/7/05 at 08:59 PM |
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backing
like I said no need to back you have full pen. on both!
do you want to drive it or eat your dinner off it?
Rgds
Roger
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Rorty
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| posted on 7/7/05 at 05:18 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
heh heh!!!!
that's what you think!!!
I happen to be in a unique position regarding the quality of NDT testing of tube. (As well as working for a leading tube manufacturer myself!!!) I
cannot say more on here but Mike R has met the person who has given me this knowledge!!
They say "NDT tested" meaning it has been through an NDT machine. In some cases with one manufacturer, the machine was not switched
on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In another case, there was an error with operation (which I really cannot go into on here) which had been such for a year and would have caused zero
rejects whatever the quality of incoming tube!!!!
I have already said too much so I will shut up now but believe me, this is through personal experience in recent months!
It's not what he thinks; he's proven it for himself! 
You may well have industry insight (though far from unique!), but I have only witnessed one ERW pipe split in the last fifty years and that was a
1" galvanised water pipe which burst due to the water inside freezing! I've never seen a mechanical failure of a welded tube seam in
normal usage.
You are making scurrilous claims and alluding to matters that you can't or won't (for whatever reason...I don't care) disclose.
Instead of scare-mongering and globally discrediting a time-tested product and potentially steering a newbie in the wrong direction, you should stick
to making claims that you can substantiate.
Re: stainless steel chassis. A customer of mine wanted a stainless chassis which I advised against. He got what he wanted, but it was a heavy beast
and because of the value of the material and all TIG-welded, cost a small fortune. When it was all done, you could only see a very small amount of the
stainless as it was virtually all covered with bodywork.
I would sooner spend the additional money on upgrading the shocks.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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NS Dev
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| posted on 7/7/05 at 07:28 AM |
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shut up Rorty and stop talking crap as usual.
I can substantiate the claims and I have samples of faulty welded tube in my drawer now!!!!!!!
I can't elaborate on the previous details as to do so would call into question quality at manufacturers who claim to work to international
quality standards (QS 9000, ISO 9000 etc)
If you take the precious moment to look at the point that I was originally making, you'll see what I was driving at
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Rorty
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| posted on 7/7/05 at 07:48 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
shut up Rorty and stop talking crap as usual.
I can substantiate the claims and I have samples of faulty welded tube in my drawer now!!!!!!!
I can't elaborate on the previous details as to do so would call into question quality at manufacturers who claim to work to international
quality standards (QS 9000, ISO 9000 etc)
If you take the precious moment to look at the point that I was originally making, you'll see what I was driving at
That's rich! 
If you can't substantiate your lies, then don't tell them in the first place.
You lost me...what was the point you were trying to make? Actually don't bother explaining, I've had enough.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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NS Dev
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| posted on 7/7/05 at 07:56 AM |
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Lies??????????????
I take some offence at that.
They are not lies, unlike some others on here (like you) I don't feed people with bull5hit.
Obviously you have seen a tube welding mill and know the process, and therefore obviously you realise that the welded seams on welded tube are eddy
current tested for flaws. (or sometimes ultrasonically inspected) I have a large degree of involvement with this testing process.
Now turn off the testing machine for a year and see how many rejects you get. For obvious reasons I am not going to name names!!!!!!
Don't be afraid to use welded tubes, of course I use them as everybody else does, just don't assume that they are flawless because they
most certainly are not!
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aweekes1
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| posted on 7/7/05 at 07:42 PM |
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OK Then, so back to the Stainless with Aly topic! I'm not an expert on either but I work in an engineering workshop where we make, with other
things, parts for the sorts of cars we can only dream about and every day I'm shoving aly things into steel things, and vice versa. The aly is
anodised half the time but we often tear into the aly with the steel so it will be 'fresh' aly under the anodised surface.
I saw comments about this a while back so asked someone at work who said it's not a problem with stainless and aly and it's the likes of
Lotus and Mclaren who design these things so I have to hope that they know what they are doing?
I'd use stainless if I could cadge enough from work but it's just to expensive so I'm using the same stuff we all do!
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gazza285
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| posted on 7/7/05 at 09:08 PM |
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Have a look here.
And this is taken from the Aluminium Federations web site.
"A simple way of avoiding bimetallic corrosion is to isolate the two metals from one another. This can be achieved by good design and where
necessary by inserting an insulating material such as neoprene between the metal/metal contact. This would be important in an application where an
aluminium component is fixed in place with a steel article."
I'll admit that corrosion is slow when the materials are absolutely dry, but as soon as any moisture is added, then corrosion will occur.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 8/7/05 at 08:14 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
Lies??????????????
I take some offence at that.
They are not lies, unlike some others on here (like you) I don't feed people with bull5hit.
Obviously you have seen a tube welding mill and know the process, and therefore obviously you realise that the welded seams on welded tube are eddy
current tested for flaws. (or sometimes ultrasonically inspected) I have a large degree of involvement with this testing process.
Now turn off the testing machine for a year and see how many rejects you get. For obvious reasons I am not going to name names!!!!!!
Don't be afraid to use welded tubes, of course I use them as everybody else does, just don't assume that they are flawless because they
most certainly are not!
Not directly related to above but I have seen really bad quality problems with extruded large diameter aluminium alloy tube. The extrusion process
had went wrong the centre part of the die was well off centre and as the wall thickness on one side was reduced to about 50% of its nominal
thickness. This resulted in a company I worked for having to recall a batch of lifting machines.
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quattromike
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| posted on 8/7/05 at 07:13 PM |
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I'm with NS Dev on this one i've seen high grade steel box section comeing into my work and having to re-call the manufacturer because
of masive flaws along the seem.
But back on track, like i was saying i'm thinking of useing instant gasket to seperate the steel from the aluminium would this work? or will it
need to be a thicker material. At the moment i'm doing my rear uprights which are aluminium 6082 T and sierra rear bearing housing made from
cast or even cast from steel i'm not to sure but i will need to keep them seperate some how?
Mike.
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Rorty
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| posted on 8/7/05 at 10:39 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by quattromike
I'm with NS Dev on this one i've seen high grade steel box section comeing into my work and having to re-call the manufacturer because
of masive flaws along the seem.
Thank you! All it takes to transform scaremongering, scurrilous lies into believable data, is corroborative evidence!
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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907
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| posted on 9/7/05 at 07:07 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by rocket
like I said no need to back you have full pen. on both!
do you want to drive it or eat your dinner off it?
Rgds
Roger
Thought I'd try the old "workshop test for sheet metal butt welds"
As for, "drive it or eat your dinner off it"....
It's nice to have the option 
I could become very popular at club bar-b-q's.
atb Paul G
 
Rescued attachment chassis welding 009 s.jpg
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NS Dev
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| posted on 9/7/05 at 08:23 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Rorty
quote:
Originally posted by quattromike
I'm with NS Dev on this one i've seen high grade steel box section comeing into my work and having to re-call the manufacturer because
of masive flaws along the seem.
Thank you! All it takes to transform scaremongering, scurrilous lies into believable data, is corroborative evidence!
Rorty, you really are a tosser aren't you!!!!!!!!!!
How can I put this plainly..........I DO NOT FCUKING WELL TELL LIES YOU SAD TWAT!!!!!!!!!!
I cannot give specific evidence because it would probably lose me my job, as well as incriminate several tube manufacturers. If you think they would
take that lightly then you really lack the brain that at one time I did think (evidently incorrectly) that you had.
Needless to say, I have pieces of flawed tube, and NDT playback data, plus service records from the machinery involved, all of which back up my
claims.
Unfortunately you seem to be viewing this from your strange little world where for some reason you think I am making this up (obviously the type of
thing you normally do, hence you suspect others!)
Apologies to everybody else for the language used above, but I don't take lightly to being accused of lying
Rorty - when you are qualified to comment on something, do it. When you are not, don't. You don't manufacture tube for a living, so SHUT
UP!
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Rorty
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| posted on 9/7/05 at 01:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
How can I put this plainly..........I DO NOT FCUKING WELL TELL LIES YOU SAD TWAT!!!!!!!!!!
I wasn't aware I had told any lies. Can you refresh my memory please?
You're making a real ass of yourself with your tantrums, and your indignation only falls on deaf ears when you counter accuse myself and others
of lying. Not very bright is it?
Oh BTW, I'm not a melancholy vagina and I won't shut up - it's a free forum! 
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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Metal Hippy
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| posted on 9/7/05 at 02:55 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
As formerly seen on the Isonblade - very striking to look at, too.
DJ
[Edited on 1/7/05 by David Jenkins]
Ahhhhh the memories...
[Edited on 9/7/05 by Metal Hippy]
Cock off or cock on. You choose.
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rocket
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| posted on 9/7/05 at 04:32 PM |
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Results of the test are. . .
nowt wrong with either of them!!
so u waste your gas!
Rgds
Roger.quote:
Originally posted by 907
quote:
Originally posted by rocket
like I said no need to back you have full pen. on both!
do you want to drive it or eat your dinner off it?
Rgds
Roger
Thought I'd try the old "workshop test for sheet metal butt welds"
As for, "drive it or eat your dinner off it"....
It's nice to have the option
I could become very popular at club bar-b-q's.
atb Paul G
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907
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| posted on 10/7/05 at 06:57 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by rocket
nowt wrong with either of them!!
so u waste your gas!
Rgds
Roger.quote:
Absolutely Roger.
Another 10 quid up the chute. 
Paul G
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NS Dev
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| posted on 11/7/05 at 07:35 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Rorty
quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
How can I put this plainly..........I DO NOT FCUKING WELL TELL LIES YOU SAD TWAT!!!!!!!!!!
I wasn't aware I had told any lies. Can you refresh my memory please?
You're making a real ass of yourself with your tantrums, and your indignation only falls on deaf ears when you counter accuse myself and others
of lying. Not very bright is it?
Oh BTW, I'm not a melancholy vagina and I won't shut up - it's a free forum!
Evidently you cannot read!
I did not say that you told lies, I merely said that I did not appreciate you accusing ME of lying, which is something that I absolutely refute. There
are a number of people on this forum that know me personally and know that anything that I claim can be backed up. (otherwise there is little point in
claiming it is there!!)
I now suggest that this topic is left, and that in future you do not bother to answer my posts if you merely wish to start a ridiculous argument based
on one of your whims.
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kreb
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| posted on 13/7/05 at 01:55 PM |
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I know you folks are deadly serious about it, but I have to say from a yank perspective your exchange is funny as hell just in the choice of
language. I haven't laughed so much since I heard Lotus owners called " a bunch of frilly-knickered toss pots".
Keep it light fellas. Life's too short for this silliness.
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NS Dev
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| posted on 14/7/05 at 09:01 PM |
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Sorry!
I do normally, just don't like being accused of lying!
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DEAN C.
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| posted on 14/7/05 at 11:01 PM |
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Handbags at dawn ? Ladies!!
Time to cool down perhaps?
Carry on if you like it is quite funny
Once I've finished a project why do I start another?
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