Johnmor
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| posted on 30/9/05 at 08:48 PM |
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Alfa V6
Hi
I have just bought a negleted but complete Alfa 164 3.0L 12v and have aquired a gearbox from an Alfa spider 2.0L
I have been told these will fit together and should provide a good power plant for a project.
I am cosidering a Luego velocity XT
has anyone any useful info?
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Liam
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| posted on 1/10/05 at 11:50 PM |
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Mmmmm beautiful engine!!
I'd check your box really does bolt up to the engine first! I'd be surprised if it does to be honest - thought the Alfa 6 was the only
RWD gearbox option. Could be wrong of course, hopefully am.
On the plus side, you'll find the engine ECU loom comes out of the 164 with the engine, totally seperate to the rest of the car's wiring.
Literally only a few wires to connect to get the engine running! So easy! Why oh why wasn't a rover 827 engine wired up that way??...
Well good luck,
Liam
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Johnmor
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| posted on 2/10/05 at 06:09 PM |
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Alfa v6
I just found a website where a guy fitted a V6 in a spider and rekons the gearbox will fit "The engine is bolted directly to the stock Spider
transmission"
Hope he's right.
Gave the engine dimensions to Luego and they think it should fit in a velocity OK.
Thanks for the info on the ECU, Im going to try running the engine pror to fitment .
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Johnmor
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 posted on 5/10/05 at 06:05 PM |
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Alfa V6
Looks like the chap in America was wrong and as you thought the gearbox is no use.
Looks as if I may try mating a type 9 to the v6, will require a bit of planning and a a big hammer.
Anyone want an Alfa rearwheel drive gearbox, will fit alfa 1800 twin cam?
john
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Mave
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| posted on 5/10/05 at 06:40 PM |
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Check out this site: http://www.geocities.com/dax_super_stephan/
It's an Alfa V6 powered Dax Rush.
Marcel
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Johnmor
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 posted on 5/10/05 at 08:04 PM |
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Alfa V6
I saw that site, the guy has used a Alfa 6 geabox (hens teeth).
Looks good though.
I think i may be able to use the bell housing from the 164 and grind and cut off the diff unit, space out (38mm) and add a conversion plate at the
rear of the bell housing, this can be machined to suit a type nine. that only leaves the spiggot bearing, friction plate and clutch operation to worry
about- !!!!.
Got to be worth it to use the V6, only paid £40 for the whole car!
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ned
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| posted on 5/10/05 at 08:55 PM |
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speak to whats his name whos put the alfa v6 in his gemini, he made a bellhousing to fit a type 9 box and has plenty of ideas.
can't remember his username though, but a search for jaffa cakes should bring him up 
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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gazza285
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| posted on 5/10/05 at 10:55 PM |
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Trevborg?
DO NOT PUT ON KNOB OR BOLLOCKS!
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ned
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| posted on 6/10/05 at 08:59 AM |
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thats the man, thanks gazza.
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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G.Man
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| posted on 6/10/05 at 09:52 AM |
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What about the older Alfa 75 or GTV6 2.5 gearbox?
??
http://motors.search.ebay.co.uk/alfa-75_Cars_W0QQcatrefZC12QQfromZR40QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQsacatZ9801
[Edited on 6/10/05 by G.Man]
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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Johnmor
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| posted on 6/10/05 at 04:45 PM |
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Both the GTV and the 75 and 155 had the clutch and the gearbox in the rear transaxle, provided better balance but only a prop shaft ran from the
engine.
There are only a few Alfas with traditional rear wheel drive system.
Spider (65-93)
Alfa 6
Giulia
Bertone and
Berlina
Almost all are pre 80s
Home engineering looks the only way!!!
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Steve Lovelock
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| posted on 6/10/05 at 06:16 PM |
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I have a Velocity XT and am looking for a cheap way of getting as much HP in the engine bay as possible. If you can use the wiring from the original
car then does that mean you only need to fabricate the gearbox bell housing and the exhaust? If the whole engine only cost £40 then it makes for a
cheap solution. How much HP does the Alfa V6 have?
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Johnmor
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 posted on 6/10/05 at 06:50 PM |
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The Alfa 3.0l V6 12v has approx 190 BHP
And lots of torque, the block and head are both alloy ( approx 130kg) and is often seen as one of the best engines ever produced.
There was also a 2.5 v6 almost identicle just different bore so most parts are iter- changeable.
I would have to alter the sump as it may be too deep for the Velocity, but a sump from the 2.5, as used on the Alfa 75 may be ok
Just bought another Alfa 164 for £100, but i think the big ends may need attention as the oil pressure is low.
These cars are being thrown away, my brother runs a 164 3.0L 24v (230 bhp)
A seriously quick car(150mph) and it weighs 1500kgs. So in a locost it is serious power with reliability and a totaly unstressed engine.
The clutch and bell housing are the only snags i have found so far.
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Steve Lovelock
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| posted on 6/10/05 at 08:26 PM |
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Apart from 12 valves and 40BHP, what is the difference between the 12 & 24V engines?
Do they still have simple wiring?
Are they the same size?
Do the weigh the same?
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Johnmor
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| posted on 6/10/05 at 09:04 PM |
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The 24 V has bigger heads and the electrics could be a head ache. became a complicated engine when they installed 12 extra valves. The output varied
between 210 and 230 bhp depending on the model. But i think the 12v would be a squeeze in a velocity so maybe the 24v is asking a bit much.
The weight may be a little more but not much.
I will let you jnow how i get on with the bellhousing problem.
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Liam
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| posted on 6/10/05 at 09:47 PM |
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I'd expect the ecu in the 24V is still seperate like it is in the 12V but I can't say for sure. It was a little while ago we did it, but
it was a piece of cake to get the engine running sitting on it's subframe in the garage (ready to be shoe-horned into the back of a fiat
cinquecento ). You're left with the ecu plugged into the engine and one big connector. You just have to find which pin is the starter
solonoid and power to the engine relays and connect a fuel pump up. Then off she goes!! I imagine 24V is very similar.
Liam
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NS Dev
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| posted on 7/10/05 at 07:20 AM |
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did it get into the back of the fiat? Any pics? What was it used for? We did a similar thing with a Nova for rallying, but not a v6!
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Trev Borg
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| posted on 7/10/05 at 11:18 AM |
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Nice choice of engine
if you want any ideas, measurements, piccys, or anything to help with your conversion, just e-mail me.
The Gemini should be in PCC this month i think with details of the
conversion.link to pcc forum
Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes.
By that time, who cares.
You're a mile away, and you've got his shoes
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Johnmor
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| posted on 7/10/05 at 09:27 PM |
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bellhousing
Spoke to a guy who used to race mazda rotary engined cars, an engineer to trade but now retired. Reckons if i give him the ford bellhousing and the
Alfa bellhousing he will convert it no problem and he will machine a spiggot bush to suit the crankshaft. He says that phospher bronze is the way to
go for the spiggot as needle bearings have very little tolerance and will burn and seize if the gearbox is subjected to high torque.
Used to race a 1300cc nomal asp Rotary with 390 bhp. red line 16000 revs
Sounds like fun!!
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Steve Lovelock
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| posted on 8/10/05 at 06:12 AM |
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Well, I am off to Luego today to collect some bits and pieces and intend to talk to them about the feasibility of this; I am very excited about a V6
Alfa engine in the Velocity. Assuming they don't dampen my spirits too much I'll be looking for a gearbox conversion pretty soon so would
you suggest to your man that he could have more than one customer. Would it still be for a cable based clutch operation? Where in the UK is this
chap?
Cheers
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Johnmor
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| posted on 8/10/05 at 12:02 PM |
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I live in the North East of Scotland (Aberdeenshire), so its quite a distance. I am going to see the chap in about 10 days time to deliver the
bellhousings and see whats feasible. he reckons it could cost about £300 max but until he sees it he cant say.
He is also retired so how much work he wants i dont know but i can certainly ask.
the Alfa operates a hydraulic clutch, and hopefully i will keep that.
I will let you know my progress.
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owelly
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| posted on 8/10/05 at 02:00 PM |
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I would be cautious of an engineer who says needle bearings don't like torque!!
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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owelly
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| posted on 8/10/05 at 02:11 PM |
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And check steering column doesn't tangle your exhaust fannymould.
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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Johnmor
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| posted on 8/10/05 at 02:13 PM |
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I think he mentioned that because he used them before and found that with tolerence required for a spiggot, if you were even a couple of tho out with
the shaft alignment it squezzed the oil form the bearings on one side and could lead to burning. especially with high power output engines as they try
to lift the primary shaft in the gearbox when you put your foot down.
Then again maybe i'm to trusting of retired engineers.
Have to wait and see.
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Johnmor
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| posted on 8/10/05 at 02:14 PM |
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The exhaust will be an adventure all of its own.
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