Mark Allanson
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| posted on 19/4/04 at 05:33 PM |
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'Standard' brake flexies
I am at the expensive part of the build, I need so many parts to continue the progress I have been making.
I need brake flexies, I don't want stainless, or ones that I have to make myself, I just want to phone my local factors, demand a ridiculous %
of discount, and ask for a pair of flexies from a road car that will fit my book chassis with book wishbones and Cortina uprights. I tried a search
but it was far from conclusive.
I have heard the Cortina Mk5 will be OK, any confirmation? Part numbers would be really nice!!
Thanks
Mark
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 19/4/04 at 06:50 PM |
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I bought std flexies from a granada for my car - which was the original donor. I didnt use em cos they were way too short.
I bought custom ones at about 15 quid a chuck from merlin motorsport. Basically braided were the only game in town.
I thin the rubber std ones were 50 - 70 of the cost of braided anyway....
btw - the whole friggin thing is the most expensive bit of the build..... its the cheapness of the chassis steel that lulls you into a false sense of
economy..... then it all piles up on you and you realise ron champion was bullshitting.
atb
steve
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NS Dev
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| posted on 19/4/04 at 07:18 PM |
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I love that last bit, very nicely summarised, for once I am not going to argue with you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's not difficult to make the hoses up yourself, the bits from rally design (www.raldes.co.uk) are cheap enough (off the top of my head as
their website seems to be down, £4 per end fitting and about £5 a metre for the hose? something like that anyway)
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JoelP
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| posted on 19/4/04 at 07:53 PM |
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two pairs of standard sierra front flexi's have gone on mine, they are just long enough to cover lock to lock, but i had to position the
bulkhead mounts carefully. They were about £20 all in.
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 19/4/04 at 07:54 PM |
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I hadnt noticed that you were arguing with me at times - im gonna have to be a lot more stroppy with you from now on 
BTW - the fittings - according to sva - must not be push in type - which infers they have to be crimped, which infers the use of a special tool which
infers you cant make em easily yourself.
I wonder if thats the start of an argument
atb
steve
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NS Dev
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| posted on 19/4/04 at 08:01 PM |
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errrr, sort of! You CAN use self assembled ends, with seperate olives, as long as they have an "inner support tube", which the rally
design fittings do have. (read the thread on "Euroquip 600 hose and fittings" this explains)
I know of a lot of cars using these type of assembled fittings which go straight through the SVA.
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 19/4/04 at 08:19 PM |
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If I have to make up the hoses myself, I will, but the advantage of standard one is that if I order them at 8:30 tomorrow, I will have them delivered
to me by 10:00. I buy about 10K a week in parts, and choose the suppliers myself according to discounts, speed of delivery and profficiency of the
suppliers. If I order something and say I want 60% discount for myself, I usually get it!!
Joel, I am guessing your sierra hoses were for sierra hubs and calipers? If so I don't think they would be suitable for my Cortina M16's,
as they have a short standing pipe running from the caliper inlet - or do I stand corrected?
I have the advantage that my ally front side panels are about 2" further outboard than anyone elses, so I can get away with shorter hoses.
Comments?
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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JoelP
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| posted on 19/4/04 at 09:12 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark Allanson
Joel, I am guessing your sierra hoses were for sierra hubs and calipers? If so I don't think they would be suitable for my Cortina M16's,
as they have a short standing pipe running from the caliper inlet - or do I stand corrected?
far be it from me to correct anyone! i dont have a clue, so i guess they are different. but it is bloody hard to cover all angles of steering, i
considered putting a short metal pipe on the hub to bring the flexi attachment point closer to the hub pivot axis (if you catch my drift...) so that
the flexis dont turn so dramatically. do your calipers already do this?
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 19/4/04 at 09:39 PM |
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Some people use banjo fittings on the M16, I personally don't think this is a good idea, as the M16 is designed for a compressed brake pipe
flare to be fitted into the inlet. Joel, I see your point about the end of the the small standing brake pipe being closer to the pivot point and less
prone to twisting and fowling, which amplifies my original question about Mk5 hoses fitting a book chassis.
Someone MUST have fitted standard hoses to a book chasis/ front running gear.
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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britishtrident
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| posted on 20/4/04 at 06:13 AM |
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No reason not to use standard Cortina flexies they are more than long enough and by far the most suitable hose for the job --- the connection to
the flex hose should be on bracket mounted close to the steering axis as it was on the Cortina.
Because they use olive fittings braided hoses are best left for competition use where are can be inspected regularly, on a road car the danger is some
one will regard them as "fit and forget" .
[Edited on 20/4/04 by britishtrident]
[Edited on 20/4/04 by britishtrident]
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NS Dev
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| posted on 20/4/04 at 07:02 AM |
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True. The main reason they are not "fit and forget" though is (according to the manufacturers) because at VERY high mileages (100,000+ in
"normal" driving) the stainless braid can fatigue fracture, and the broken wire ends then "can" end up piercing the teflon
inner.
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 20/4/04 at 08:46 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
No reason not to use standard Cortina flexies they are more than long enough and by far the most suitable hose for the job ---
[Edited on 20/4/04 by britishtrident]
strange statement. If you read all the gumph from the hose mfr they say that braided are much better as they provide a firmer pedal ss there is little
expansion in the rubber pipe - cos there isnt any.
Once I understood what I needed, Merlin also sent em next day, just like real ones.....
dunno if they do a trade discount thou....
The pedal on my car is rock hard, and the end fittings come with nice bulkhead nuts that allow you to fit em real easy - not like the stupid clips
that are rusty from a std Ford.
as far as fit and forget - they are pretty damn visible on a locost - which is another reason not to use nasty looking black rubber - and how many
miles does a locost do. And does a locost owner never look his car over mechanically? Its a constant love affair of mods and care I recon
atb
steve
[Edited on 20/4/04 by stephen_gusterson]
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Peteff
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| posted on 20/4/04 at 08:49 AM |
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I think mine were Mk1 Granada but it was a long time since I bought them. They are screwed directly into the caliper and are long enough from lock to
lock
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/photos.php?action=showphoto&photo=brake_pipe.jpg
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 20/4/04 at 02:39 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Peteff
I think mine were Mk1 Granada but it was a long time since I bought them. They are screwed directly into the caliper and are long enough from lock to
lock
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/photos.php?action=showphoto&photo=brake_pipe.jpg
Looking at the picture the hoses have the wrong end to screw directly into the caliper.
The type of hose ends that screw straight into a caliper or wheel cylinder are short and use a copper washer to seal.
The Granada/Consol front suspenion and brakes were the same as the Cortina 3 apart from the heavy duty 5 stud hubs ( the Cortina was built on a
chopped down Grandada floor pressing) .
The hose is intended to go to a bracket with a short steel pipe connecting it to the caliper.
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Peteff
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| posted on 20/4/04 at 06:29 PM |
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If it works?
It hasn't leaked fluid in the years it's been on the car, it passed sva and doesnt need a washer to seal it so it must be more efficient
than the recommended fitting. The threads reach the bottom of the caliper thread and it has the same taper on the end. It passes MOT every year as
well. I am of the opinion that if something works and is up to the job it is the right part. Should we stop adapting stuff because it's not what
it was made for, no more top ball joints or maxi joints then, or fitting zetecs to type 9 boxes or bike engines in cars. We might as well stop
building if that's the way to think. What are you building by the way?
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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Steve Hnz
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| posted on 22/4/04 at 07:12 AM |
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Mark, once you know what fittings you require on each end & you should know that from where you got your bits from, then you should be able to
tell your brake people what they are & ask for a hose of X length as required, many cars share the same fittings but have different length hoses,
its just a matter of teacking down the correct ones. I`ve done this on a Land Rover with a suspension lift no problem & my brake guys reckoned
there were few they couldn`t place. HTH, Steve.
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ernie
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| posted on 26/4/04 at 05:18 PM |
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brake flexis
standard flexis to fit cortina / sierra also will fit rear axle are lucas/ girling PHC 144 approx £6.00 each from Partco or if braided Goodrich
G0033 is a complete set for front hubs 7 rear axle avalible fron Burtonpower @ approx £31
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 26/4/04 at 08:43 PM |
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Rally design do a complete set for a Mk5 Cortina for £18.50. They are braded stainless so should do the trick, can anyone see any reason why I get any
problems with these?
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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Northy
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| posted on 26/4/04 at 08:47 PM |
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You'll need to prove the end has a tube to go inside the PTFE pipe, same as I do. I'm just planning on buying a spare end to show the SVA
inspector.
Cheers
Graham
Website under construction. Help greatfully received as I don't really know what I'm doing!
"If a man says something in the woods and there are no women there, is he still wrong?"
Built 2L 8 Valve Vx Powered Avon
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 26/4/04 at 09:06 PM |
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I'll give them a ring tomorrow, if they have the internal pipe, I will order a set and a spare end as you suggest
Thanks
Mark
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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Northy
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| posted on 26/4/04 at 09:09 PM |
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No worries
Graham
Website under construction. Help greatfully received as I don't really know what I'm doing!
"If a man says something in the woods and there are no women there, is he still wrong?"
Built 2L 8 Valve Vx Powered Avon
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andkilde
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| posted on 27/4/04 at 03:09 PM |
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Just to add to the "be careful around braided stainless" conversation.
My wife is a fluid power specialist and gives me no end of grief about "proper" hose selection for a given application.
She has a couple of beefs with braided teflon.
1) Careless assembly (or careful mis-assembly) is guaranteed to lead to grief with ends popping off.
2) Stainless braided teflon is designed for high temperature, moderate pressure and low flexure applications. The teflon liner has no intrinsic
strength (blows out like bubble gum if you get any splitting of outer stainless sheath), is not bonded to the wire and is not a multi-layer hose
(which provides a bit of redundancy in failure). Also, despite it's robust looks it is NOT abrasion resistant, any rubbing will result in
failure.
That said, I still use it, exercise caution and inspect regularly as British Trident suggested.
There are some new braided teflon hoses available with a tinted translucent polyurethane coating -- last I checked they weren't available as
small as -3 and -4 but when they do start making them that small (if they haven't already) they might be more suitable than the standard
stuff.
Cheers, Ted
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 27/4/04 at 07:10 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Northy
You'll need to prove the end has a tube to go inside the PTFE pipe, same as I do. I'm just planning on buying a spare end to show the SVA
inspector.
Cheers
I rang rally design about the internal pipe from the union to the PTFE liner, the lad on the other end had no idea what I was talking about, all I
could get out of him was 'loads of people have bought 'em and fixed 'em to their cars', he didn't even know what SVA
was!
I appologised for wasting his time and hung up
Are their any knowledgable suppliers out there from who I can buy with confidence?
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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Northy
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| posted on 27/4/04 at 07:36 PM |
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Mark,
We got a very similar reply. But because I've already got there pipes, I've ordered an end anyway. If its any good (right) I'll let
you know and you could still order from them and even borrow the end for your SVA if you wanted.
Cheers
Graham
Website under construction. Help greatfully received as I don't really know what I'm doing!
"If a man says something in the woods and there are no women there, is he still wrong?"
Built 2L 8 Valve Vx Powered Avon
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 27/4/04 at 08:25 PM |
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That would be ideal, when are you getting the spare end to check? I need to get the flexies asap, I am building so fast at the moment, I am nearly
tripping over my self!
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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