Neil P
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| posted on 8/11/07 at 02:59 PM |
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Adapter plates - how thick?
How substantial do adapter plates need to be?
I can probably accomodate 6 or 10mm but each brings different issues.
10mm is obviously heavier and I would like to keep the weight down too if I could.
Is a 6mm plate sufficient? This would allow the spigot shaft splines to engage more fully.
All bolts will pass through it rather than screw into it.
Any thoughts, please?
Neil
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 8/11/07 at 03:07 PM |
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Don't forget it's not just the splines engaging in the clutch that is important, the gearbox input shaft also has to be engaged with the
spigot bearing in the end of the crank.
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Peteff
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| posted on 8/11/07 at 03:16 PM |
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If it's a strength thing 6mm steel plate should be well up to the job. If it's something like a circle with the middle cut out it would
only bend the flat way anyway, not edgeways if you see what I mean.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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Neil P
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| posted on 8/11/07 at 03:17 PM |
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Yes, thanks. I've checked that, the plain section of the spigot engages really well into the crank. I may even need to take a little off the end
when I finally get them together.
I just need to get a spigot bearing from somewhere to suit it aswell.
Neil
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Neil P
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| posted on 8/11/07 at 03:22 PM |
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Pete, thats what I was thinking.
I don't think the shear load will be very high, it was more about the two trying to pull apart as the car bounces around on the road.
Neil
[Edited on 8/11/07 by Neil P]
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thomas4age
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| posted on 8/11/07 at 03:27 PM |
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an adaptorplate needs to be seized thicknes wise, to make the inputshaft engage the spigot bearing fully,
if that's not the case flex will occur in the inputshaft and it or it's firts bearings will break in time or cause clutch misallingment
with all problems that emerge from that.
there's 2 things you can do to overcome this,
1 have the face of the original bellhousing machined down and make the adaptor thicker, but you can't do this on all boxes,
on alloy bell's it's often better to not mill down below 10mm, some bellhousings don;t have enough flesh to do this
2 relocate the spigot bearing from the crank to the flywheel, but flywheel allignment on the crank becomes key when doing this, most flywheels are
allinged very well in stock form and most of the time there's enough room to fit a small button type insert with the flywheel bolt pattern and a
hole drilled in the center for the bearing to go in.
this is a quite common thing to do when using G50 boxes because most of them have the input axle shorter than the actual bellhousing face. alo newer
audi boxes that work with dual mass flywheels have this.
I personaly think 6mm is to thin but largely depends on the meterial used to make it. I don't know what you should use, but anything less strong
than steel would seem inapropriate
remember that if the join goes out of alingment by only very little amounts the gearbox would probably have a very short life, as would the clutch
plate if it then will work good at all.
which box needs to go on which engine?
grtz Thomas
If Lucas made guns, Wars wouldn't start either.
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Neil P
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| posted on 8/11/07 at 03:47 PM |
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quote:
I personaly think 6mm is to thin but largely depends on the meterial used to make it. I don't know what you should use, but anything less strong
than steel would seem inapropriate
That's what I'm looking at using, 6mm steel.
I'm putting the Ford 'box onto the Toyota engine but there's no problem with engaging the spigot and the crank, they actually go
together quite well.
The only real issue is that if I use a 10mm plate, quite apart fom being heavier, it moves the splines of the spigot shaft further out of engagement
with the clutch plate resulting in the splines passing about 25mm through the plate leaving the last 6-7 mm of clutch plate splines unused.
I think that makes sense - the shaft splines don't pass right through the cluth plate. If I use 6mm this effect is reduced considerably.
I'm building on a budget (I'm tight!) so don't really want to become too involved in paying precision engineers if I don't
need to.
I can see where you are coming from though and it would solve the problem, I would just have to shorten the spigot shaft a little where it meets the
crank.
Can I hack a bit off the face with my grinder? (kidding, honest)
Thanks for your suggestions.
Neil
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Neil P
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| posted on 8/11/07 at 03:53 PM |
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Thomas,
just had alook in your archive, you have 4age stuff and a MT75 plan, have you joined these two together?
Neil
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thomas4age
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| posted on 8/11/07 at 04:05 PM |
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Hey Neil,
Yeah I supose you could grind of a bit with a thin disk and at a very slow feed, if you get the steel hot when grinding it will break eventually under
load. just be carefull and go slow.
about the mt75 and 4age, no I havent joined them. plans have changed now and I'm building something completly different.
is that your combo? 4age Mt75
I was looking into the possibility of copieing the lamborghini 4wd system using mt75 4x4 and lexus V8, I'm still looking for the measurements
that are asked in that picture BTW, so if you know them, Jippy!
grtz Thomas
[Edited on 8/11/07 by thomas4age]
If Lucas made guns, Wars wouldn't start either.
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tks
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| posted on 8/11/07 at 04:23 PM |
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the thickness of the plate
will be decided by the distance between the clamping bolts.
the bigger that distance the thicker material is needed
tks
The above comments are always meant to be from the above persons perspective.
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thomas4age
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| posted on 8/11/07 at 04:55 PM |
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Not true TKS,
unless I'm not understandng what you mean. explain a little if you want
travel of clutch, spigot engagement, an bolt pattern adaption are the only criteria of making a adaptorplate. unless you're also using it as a
bulkhead like a lot of monoposto's
grtz Thomas
[Edited on 8/11/07 by thomas4age]
[Edited on 8/11/07 by thomas4age]
If Lucas made guns, Wars wouldn't start either.
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Peteff
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| posted on 8/11/07 at 05:10 PM |
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I follow his drift
If the hole circle on the engine is a long way from the hole circle in the bell housing there will be flex in a thinner plate, especially when you use
the clutch. If the distance is only a couple of inches then 6mm steel would hold it solid.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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wilkingj
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| posted on 8/11/07 at 05:41 PM |
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The thickness of the plate is important as it also affects the position at which the clutch release bearing touches the Cover plate, and thus where
your clutch pedal sits (barring any adjustment).
At the extremes, the bearing will not reach the cover plate, or will be hard up against it preventing the clutch from releasing, giving permenant
slippage.
OK thats the extremes, but getting the distance correct IS important.
The spigot should be fully engaged in the bearing thus supporting the shaft.
Spend time getting it right first time, or other issues will follow.
1. The point of a journey is not to arrive.
2. Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Best Regards
Geoff
http://www.v8viento.co.uk
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tks
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| posted on 8/11/07 at 06:57 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Peteff
If the hole circle on the engine is a long way from the hole circle in the bell housing there will be flex in a thinner plate, especially when you use
the clutch. If the distance is only a couple of inches then 6mm steel would hold it solid.
YUPPSS BINGO you shot the bird!
That where my thoughts.
Tks
Offcourse is the rest also affected by the thickness. but the main concern will alsways be strenght...
The above comments are always meant to be from the above persons perspective.
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Neil P
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| posted on 8/11/07 at 08:41 PM |
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The holes are on a similar sized circle so the issue of the plate flexing in that way is not a concern.
I think decision made, 6mm fits the bill.
I'll let you know if it falls apart! 
Thanks to all for your input.
Neil
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Dave Bailey
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| posted on 8/11/07 at 10:56 PM |
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sorry I know I should probably know this but what is the adpator plate?
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Neil P
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| posted on 9/11/07 at 01:31 AM |
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Plate made to join dissimilar engine and gearbox combinations by fitting between the two and having a combination of the holes to secure each part so
that they can bolt to it.
Neil
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Neil P
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| posted on 9/11/07 at 01:35 AM |
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At least you managed to spell it correctly - must buy a dictionary.
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snapper
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| posted on 9/11/07 at 03:06 AM |
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As the issue is the shorter input shaft caused by the extra 6 or 10mm another solution would be a Type 9 V6 box with the longer input shaft and a
pinto bell housing which is 35 to 40mm shorter than the V6 one. The adaptor plate/ring can be as thick as you like and to make up the rest of the gap
use a caterham gearbox to bellhousing spacer and mill off the adaptor width. Also get beter ratios with this setup.
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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