Evening all,

I'm chopping the sump on a 2 litre black top Zetec. ie. the one with the two piece sump - alloy top part including windage tray and pressed steel lower part.

There seems to be various opinions as to the best way to do this, including concerns over the baffling of the shortened sump in order to prevent oil surge under heavy acceleration/braking and/or cornering.

So here's what I've done.........

1. Chopped the lower steel part of the sump and used the portion I've cut off to extend the sump lengthways, retaining the drain plug and plated over the remaining hole - and yes I know the welding is not pretty but it's liquid tight!


Sump Chop 1 Small

Partly because of concerns over baffling (and more importantly because I'm an idiot and forgot to modify the oil pick up pipe before I welded the sump back together, and therefore couldn't see where the oil pick up pipe was gonna sit in relation to the bottom of the sump) I decided to cut a hole in the bottom of the newly modded sump to level the pick up pipe properly. While I as at it I decided to try a further mod to overcome potential oil surge problems.


Sump Chop 6 Small

I then modded the pick up pipe leaving it sticking slightly proud of the bottom of the sump.


Sump Chop 5 Small



Sump Chop 2 Small

Then I made a shallow 'mini sump' to encompass the pick up pipe.


Sump Chop 4 Small

The mini sump is 13mm deep and there is exactly 5mm clearance between the bottom of the pick up pipe and the bottom of the mini sump.


Sump Chop 3 Small

Given that the original steel (lower) part of the sump had no baffles in to start with (but bearing in mind I have made the sump shallower than the original and increased the 'floor' area of the sump) do you think that these mods will be enough to prevent oil surge if I ensure that the correct oil level is maintained or should I use more baffles?

And finally, I have lost about 1/2 litre of oil capacity. Will this be an issue or should I extend the sump further to regain this capacity.

So, opinions please - other than:-

1. Your welding is c__p, and

2. You're an idiot and should have modded the pick up pipe before you welded the sump back together!

Cheers,

Mart.

PS. All this should give me a whisker over 75mm/3" ground clearance.

quite like the mini sump idea. wasn't really sure, but did you widen it at all? ie 'wings'? just to hold a bit more oil

edit: just saw the bit at the end, i'd weld some wings on the sides to get that 1/2 litre back. i guess you could make up 2 small steel boxes, 250ml each approx, drill some fairly decent size holes in the sides of the sump, and weld the boxes over them? one on each side?

someone will be along to tell me its a terrible idea probably

[Edited on 24/9/09 by blakep82]

do you think that you will be able to get sufficient oil to flow through the 5mm gap to prevent the pump cavitating and sucking air? just looks tight to me, i dont know just a thought?

Interesting way of baffling - I just put a half mood piece of baffling infront of the pickup.

No problems so far.

Like an idiot, I didn't take a pic of the inside when I'd finished, but the final item looked like this externally:
Rescued attachment Sump 004.jpg

PS yes - I straightened out the slight warp...

Hi gents,

Blake - no, didn't widen it, just lengthened it. The lower sump held 2.75 litres of water originally and now holds around 2.25 litres.

Luke - I researched the required clearance before doing the mods. Common opinion seemed to be that the gap should be between 3-5mm so went for the larger anyway. Will keep an eye on the oil level anyway and keep it well topped up. Air should never be able to enter the pick up pipe.

Steve - yea I'd probably have done similar if I hadn't had to cut a big hole to modify the pick up anyway! Doh! Just struck me as an idea while the hole was there really.

Cheers,

Mart.

The original sump doesn't have any baffles so why worry about it?

Heres mine, boxed over the shallow bit at the back..



Keeping the original shallow section, drilled some holes and what not..


And with the back boxed in it now holds more than original.

quote:

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Originally posted by blakep82
edit: just saw the bit at the end, i'd weld some wings on the sides to get that 1/2 litre back. i guess you could make up 2 small steel boxes, 250ml each approx, drill some fairly decent size holes in the sides of the sump, and weld the boxes over them? one on each side?
[Edited on 24/9/09 by blakep82]

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I can see a problem with your mini sump idea, sorry. When the gunk settles it will find it's way there and on start up will block your pick up pipe.

might have to shorten my vauxhall one at some point. will keep an eye on this one

Hi Coozer,

quote:

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The original sump doesn't have any baffles so why worry about it?

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Hi,

quote:

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Originally posted by marcjagman
I can see a problem with your mini sump idea, sorry. When the gunk settles it will find it's way there and on start up will block your pick up pipe.

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my money is on the mini sumpo being knock off by the first speed bump you go over.

you have gained nomthing by that - betwee to have the whole sump lower so it acts as a skip place than the littlle lump.

also as ^^^ mentioned, grot will collect there and only way you can clear it is by removal of the sump at each oil change.

could you not remake the pick up tube - copper or steel pipe and a bit of bending or am I missing the point?

don't take it the wrong way but it does seem a bodge - you'd be better off getting another sump and doing a better job if you value your engine.

i think you will have problems with the mini sump. i would just baffle the sump properly. or make a custom gated sump.

quote:

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Originally posted by Cheffy

quote:

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Originally posted by blakep82
edit: just saw the bit at the end, i'd weld some wings on the sides to get that 1/2 litre back. i guess you could make up 2 small steel boxes, 250ml each approx, drill some fairly decent size holes in the sides of the sump, and weld the boxes over them? one on each side?
[Edited on 24/9/09 by blakep82]

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Yea, quite like that idea. I'll investigate!

Cheers fella.

Steve, how did you staighten your warped sump out? I've got a bit of warping. It's not too bad - probably about 7/8mm over the length of the sump (despite bolting it to a board during welding). It pulls out easy enough when you bolt it up to the upper part of the sump but would probably be better if it was straight anyway.

Cheers,

Mart.

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Hi,

quote:

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Originally posted by 02GF74
don't take it the wrong way but it does seem a bodge - you'd be better off getting another sump and doing a better job if you value your engine.

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I just shortened mine by about 20mm and left it the standard outline, rather than adding bits on.I decided that although the capacity is reduced the mileage it does between oil changes means the oil will last ok and the reduced area means less room for oil surge and zetecs like the oil to run hot so that isn't a problem.
Ive ran it for about a year with no problems so far.
Paul

Hi Paul,

Thanks for that - good to know you've run it that way with no problems.

Mart.

Add an oil cooler to the system...that will increase the oil capacity

Looks like it will work to me.

If you run on synthetic oil forget the sludging problem, especially if its serviced every 3000 miles or so.

Yes in 100000 miles you will have some probs, but for now it will be fine.

5mm clearance is fine to the pick up, my pinto ran 3mm IIRC and was never an issue with a high flow pump.

If the small well doesnt stick out below the chassis it will be OK, otherwise it is a bit vunerable.

David

PS anyone want to lend me a zetec bottom end so I can do a sump kit for the zetec?

Hi David,

Thanks for the reply.

I'll keep my eye open for any development on the Zetec sump kits - I may well be in the market for one!

You'd be welcome to borrow my bottom end but it's a bit of a trek from Norfolk to Oxford.

Mart.