Seems like the little "kiddywinks" are getting more and more confident at breaking the law and getting away with almost murder. Personally I
think it stems from the lack of discipline in schools.
Teachers are leaving their roles, lack of new recruits. Take the money issue out of it and what's left a day of verbal sometimes physical abuse.
I was considering entering the profession, but not now, unless...
So what do you think about bringing back corporal discipline? ie THE CANE.
My wifes a teacher. just this week a kid smacked a dinner tray round the back of a dinnerladys head-got 1 day suspension.
last week a girl (with a history of volence against pupils) deliberatly kicked a boy in the nuts. This boy had recently been in hosptal for an
operation, and has now been readmitted into hospital with a blood clot in his testicle.
what happended to the girl?
-sweet FA.
This was in a middle school (age 10-12) in a very middle class area where the little darlings are never wrong and its the teachers who are all liers
and responsible for teaching their kids right and wrong.
[Edited on 29/1/05 by Lawnmower]
[Edited on 29/1/05 by Lawnmower]
no chance they'll bring the kane back until they realise kids need discipline...i mean just look at the way kids behave and there attitude sine
the late 70's
kids know the police the teachers and worst of all there parents can't touch em...
as for me i think a lot of the lack of discipline starts at home first...then the schools...
also they are even threatening to imprison parents who smack there kids too...whats all that about!!
this was about the same time the judicial system were saying that theres nowhere to send offenders.... so they wanna early release the ones
they've got and tag em,
bring back the rope, bugger the cane !!!!!!!!!
Not sure about Britain but here in Canada teachers are the folks you run from at parties -- about as interesting to talk to as 12 steppers. Constantly
whinging and whining about how hard done by they are while walking home with massive paycheques, two months paid vacation, every seventh year off and
a share in the richest pension fund in north america.
My heart bleeds.
And...
FWIW, you were all rotten little blighters in school, you've just got dotty and forgotten 
.
ta
The current situation is the result of PC gone to extremes. What the weak-kneed and pollies want to do is protect the children from abuse, but the
line between abuse and corporal punishment is very dificult to define.
It's perfectly natural to belt a child occasionally and smack them frequently. Take a look at the animal world (where we should look to for far
more examples on how to behave socially); a dog lying quietly will allow its pups to jump around and tug on its tail for a while, perhaps growling and
snapping at them. But when two of them come bundling down on it, the dog will leap to its feet and pin one of them to the ground and give it a good
sharp nip so it remembers. Most mamals do the same to some degree.
The human race have lost the plot when it comes to social reaction. Teachers should be allowed to slap pupils (but not around the head) and principals
should be allowed to administer the cane a maximum of six times per punishment.
I went to boarding schools where I was caned and though I wasn't over joyed at the time, it did produce results.
I never walloped my kids, but they had their legs slapped on occasions which had the required effect and has left no physical or mental scarring. To
the contrary, they're very well adjusted.
I've long wondered about the origins of PC claptrap. For example, the year after I graduated from uni, the school instituted a policy of co-ed
dormitories, with boys and girls even sharing bathrooms. The students didn't want it, and neither did the parents, but there it was nonetheless.
Where does this stuff come from?
We spanked our 4 children when they were willfully disobedient. I would never spank a child for breaking something, being forgetful, or just doing
something stupid. Usually, the child will feel badly enough in these circumstances without additional help. Typically, the last spanking was around
age 10 when other leverages (loss of privileges, etc.) could be applied. I have raised no axe murderers AFAIK.
So many parents seem to want to be "friends" with their kids, and rather than earning their respect by laying down clear rules, guidelines
and discipline, they try buying that respect, treating them like mini adults, and making sure that what they want is what they get. That old classic
"I want my kids to have all the things I didn't".
It can only get worse. What's all this £250 child trust fund business. To give them a good start in life? That's bollocks, let them get out
and stand on their own two feet. Their expectations are already raised far too high.
Ban advertising on kids TV or at other times targetting kids.
Ban the bloody school run, make them walk. It'll be good for their health.
Stop selling school playing fields to build houses, and make games compulsory even if they forget their kit or have a "Johnny's got a slight
cold" sicknote.
Let parents smack kids. I did, but I didn't have to do it very often as a stearn word usually sufficed.
Message to Phsycologists, Phsyciatrist, Social Workers, Politicians and the Police:
There is a clear distinction between a smack and child abuse. Only a complete idiot could confuse the two.
Stop testing them every step of the way at Junior school. It takes the fun out of learning.
Stop making playgrounds "soft" so they can't hurt themselves. There will always come a time in life when they'll hit something
hard.
Have a single age of consent. 16 for sex and cigarettes, 18 for voting and booze. Why? Make it 18 all round.
Stop dishing out condoms and the pill to kids without their parents consent. I know the AIDS doom and gloom merchants would be horrified, but it only
encourages them to get it on. At least when I was a teen and wanted to do it I had to put some effort and thought into getting hold of a rubber.
Teenage pregnancy rates were a lot lower then too. Mind you it was about a hundred years ago.
I've got nothing at all against single mums, but those who are already on benefit because of hubby leaving etc., who then continue to shell out
kids with anonymous fathers, should be left to support them. Why should my taxes?
Make gun laws effective. Leave the legitimate gun clubber alone and make it simple. If someone is in the street and they have a gun on their person,
that shows intent. Lock them up, life will do.
If any kids are in school and are found to have a knife, lock them up in an adult prison for a few days, with their parents.
Rant over, just don't mention the Health Service, Nurses or Iraq.
David
Remember when i was in 5 th grade(age 10) we started a small(?) fire in a wooden work shed on a construction site.
Neighbours called the fire brigade and the police.
Police took all 4 of us to the police station and kept us there without warning our parents untill 7 o'clock in the evening.(this was in the days
when parents did'nt run to the police station when their children where a few hours later than expected)
The cops made us each write 20 pages with the stupid phrase "I shall not make fire again"
When they brought us home in the police van they made a nice sight seeing tour around our small vilage so everybody could see who was in that police
van and than dropped us off.
The police van in front of the house and the fact that i was a "little late" had caused my mother to be in such mental state that i
could'nt sat down properly for a whole week after she "talked" to me
But that's where the story ended.No court-no social family controle-no fine.
I never did such stupid thing again....i think
[Edited on 29/1/05 by Cita]
I understand that this is a somewhat limited and bised poll. However, it is very interesting to see that the ratio of pro-CP and anti-CP is very heavily pro-CP. Makes me wonder what the result would be nationwide and whether 'New Labour' would adopt and implement the views of their electorate should they actually win the next election?
My mum is a teacher and up until last year she was dealing with the SEN kids. She would come home upset and angry due to the absuse she recieved from
several of them (kicks, punches, biting, hair pulling etc) and not being able to do anything to restrain them. Also by sending them to the heads
office all they recived was a couple of days suspension (yay holiday!) then they came back just as bad. She said that some (not all) of the kids were
only SEN because of the lack of parenting skills, some of them couldnt even read at age 15, or write their name, and werent interested in learning to
do so. (I know some of them will have real mental difficulties and I'm not talking about that). I went several times back to the school, and to
see the just plain cheek and rudeness of some of the kids (and they clearly knew they were doing it) was astonishing. IMO they needed a good few slaps
when they were little to teach them right from wrong. Small kids dont understand reasoning. My parents had no issues with slapping me when i was bad,
and it never did me any harm at all. I certainly no whats right and wrong.
I think its about time people stopped being so PC and saying that physical punishment will harm kids. Plenty of the older generations had CP in school
and it never did them a bit of harm, it just taught them to respect rules.
Just MO
Cheers,
David.
whilst i fully support proper discipline of children (everyone in fact!), what would you do if your child came home from school having been caned for
some very poor reason? methinks the teacher would have trouble sitting down too...
i was whacked a few times as a kid, but i knew my dad loved me and looking back he was pretty much always right. but i dont think id trust a teacher
100%.
on the other hand, seeing as some children end up at school with no parental discipline, i guess i would accept CP as being needed for some kids, and
hope that my kids would never end up on the wrong end of it.
im a firm believer in building more jails though! and people should be locked up for not installing a sense of discipline in their children. 
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
whilst i fully support proper discipline of children (everyone in fact!), what would you do if your child came home from school having been caned for some very poor reason? methinks the teacher would have trouble sitting down too...
but if kids get proper discipline at home they would'nt get in trouble in school...
or at least be more reluctant to get in trouble anyway
My daughter gave up a degree course in education due to the situation in todays schools. She is now doing psycology, (hoping to pick up the pieces later)
I'm a teacher in a secondary school in Wolverhampton. After Christmas I was told to eff-off every day for a week. We couldn't exclude the
kids because we were 'over our quota and the figures won't look good'.
We've had a number of teachers questioned by police because kids make up stories about being hit. Even when there's been a roomful of
people, they still make up stories that they fought with their teacher. Not one of the other 30 people witnessed it. We had a lady who was a supply
teacher who'd been working in New York schools for 14 years and she ended the day in tears. She had never seen anything like it.
We are a 'good' school. They keep telling us.
The kids play the system because they understand there can be no meaningful comeback. The school wants them in because they get paid for the number of
students.
I put most of it down to daytime TV sh!t-for-brains parents. When you've got nice parents with time for their kids, you've got nice kids.
Some kids succeed in spite of their parents. I admire them.
I personally favour a big electricity-generating treadmill for the difficult ones. They can't be educated, but they can work off the effects of
all that blue pop and junk-food whilst providing a service for the community and getting fit.
My neighbour, also a teacher, just wants to render them and spread them over fields. I think he's harsh. I'll stick with my eletricity
generating scheme.
Many teachers have never worked in industry (I call industry "proper jobs" must to the chagrin of my staffroom colleagues ) and
haven't seen what goes on to cocky-know-it-all-gobshytes. I put them at their ease my saying "It's OK. When he gets a job, they kick
his head in!"
Cheers,
Neil.
quote:
Originally posted by Noodle
I'm a teacher in a secondary school in Wolverhampton. After Christmas I was told to eff-off every day for a week. We couldn't exclude the kids because we were 'over our quota and the figures won't look good'.
We've had a number of teachers questioned by police because kids make up stories about being hit. Even when there's been a roomful of people, they still make up stories that they fought with their teacher. Not one of the other 30 people witnessed it. We had a lady who was a supply teacher who'd been working in New York schools for 14 years and she ended the day in tears. She had never seen anything like it.
We are a 'good' school. They keep telling us.
The kids play the system because they understand there can be no meaningful comeback. The school wants them in because they get paid for the number of students.
I put most of it down to daytime TV sh!t-for-brains parents. When you've got nice parents with time for their kids, you've got nice kids. Some kids succeed in spite of their parents. I admire them.
I personally favour a big electricity-generating treadmill for the difficult ones. They can't be educated, but they can work off the effects of all that blue pop and junk-food whilst providing a service for the community and getting fit.
My neighbour, also a teacher, just wants to render them and spread them over fields. I think he's harsh. I'll stick with my eletricity generating scheme.
Many teachers have never worked in industry (I call industry "proper jobs" must to the chagrin of my staffroom colleagues
Cheers,
Neil.
If we ever gave any cheek to our teachers were would be sat at home for a week. Disrespecting a teacher gets a bigger punishment than stealing a
mobile phone, and rightly so.All the teachers are very nice, and fair.
I suppose there is a difference in that I am in public school, so classes are smaller, more attention is given by the teacher, so there isn't
really any need to attract attention to yourself. Of course, we have our fair share of rebels.
Adam
[Edited on 29-1-05 by phelpsa]
The main findings are:
* During 2002/03 there were 36,496 exclusions from local authority primary, secondary and special schools in Scotland, a decrease of three per
cent from 2001/02. Over 99 per cent of all exclusions were temporary. In 292 cases, pupils were removed from the register of the school, a decrease of
12 per cent from the 2001/02 figure of 332. Overall, male pupils accounted for 81 per cent of exclusions. (Tables 1 and 4)
* Eleven per cent of all exclusions were from primary schools. There were 10 exclusions per 1,000 pupils in primary schools in 2002/03. Exclusions
in primary school decreased from around 4,500 in 1999/00 to 4,131 in 2002/03. (Tables 2a, 3a and 14)
* Eighty-five per cent of all exclusions were from secondary schools. In 2002/03 there were 98 exclusions per 1,000 pupils in secondary schools.
Exclusion rates peaked during S3, with 170 exclusions per 1,000 pupils. Exclusions in secondary schools decreased from 33,197 in 1999/2000 to 31,055
in 2002/03. (Tables 2b, 3b, and 14)
* Four per cent of all exclusions in 2002/03 were from special schools. There were 173 exclusions per 1,000 pupils in special schools. Exclusions
in special schools have generally increased since 1999/2000. (Tables 2c, 3c and 14)
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/stats/bulletins/00321-00.asp
So from that Mango we can all assume that from the figures, things are getting better?
That's is total tripe isn't it? I think we can agree that the situation is becoming worse, but with exclusion targets pupils/students will
not be excluded simply to keep the figures down. I've seen this myself... and for what it's worth most of the teachers I have spoken to all
agree that caning should be re-instated.
Over...
I am a Teacher in a very small Secondary School in the Western Isles of Scotland, about 100 pupils.
We have really no dicipline problems at all, the last pupil to be suspended from this School was in 1999.
I spent 12 years in "difficult" Schools on the mainland teaching "challenging" pupils Technical, in my last School a Teacher was
set on fire.
I do not support corporal punishment,it will not come back, ever.
I feel that parents need to be made much more accountable for the action of their children, but having met the parents of some of the more disruptive
pupils, I could see that they did not have any idea of how to "parent".
One of the reasons we do not have dicipline problems here is because it is a small community and there would be great shame on your family if you were
suspended from School, here the Teacher is always right,no question.
This is also true for the community at large, the Western Isles have a very low crime rate, I never lock my car, or the house or indeed take the keys
out of the ignition.
What the answer is elsewhere I do not know, but it is a society thing, is it not?
Society gets the behaviour it deserves....
quote:
Originally posted by zenarcher
, in my last School a Teacher was set on fire.
(sic)
Society gets the behaviour it deserves....
My headmaster at school had a glass fronted case with about a dozen canes in it. I never got it, but then I was good!
Saying that I got the plimsole off the one teacher who demanded respect in the school - if you mucked around in class he'd kick your head in!!
He, strangley enough, was the only one to get me though an O level. Lack of discipline from the rest of class disrupted my learning!!
When I first started at that school, one of the maths teachers had a cat'o'nine tales in his case!! I never saw it used, but I did witness
him deck someone with a cricket ball round the head (chap who got hit was bullying a younger chap and subsequently expelled for male rape).
Forget corporoal punishment in schools, bring in capital punishment.
Another chap was expelled for credit card fraud. Head didn't tell his next school why he had been expelled, and he ended up murdering a (IIRC)
Japanese student.
Schooling is too easy for kids these days - anyone see the reprinted exam paper in the Mail a few weeks ago, set in about 1850.
I suspect very few of today's well educated people would fair very well!!
ATB
Simon
went to a party last night and a heated argument broke out about this very subject,we all came to the conclusion that the "pc" brigade were
responsible for the decline in standards and the rise in crime cos kids know they can get away with it and continue their behaviour into adult
life,except 1 person who is a probation officer,she was in tears because not one person would agree with her left wing attitude ,she thinks
"counciling"works even when shown it dosnt and her admitting the re-offending rate is very high.
never happened in my time at school,the cane /slipper was allways at hand and very rearly used,twas a long time ago tho
We had a questionnaire through the post yesterday from the Conservative party. As I was short of reading material on a hurried dash to the smallest
room, I was able to give it my undivided attention for a few minutes.
They were asking what improvements could me made to education. But they're asking the wrong question and it is a question that no mainstream
political party is prepared to answer because it requires huge effort on behalf of voters.
Zenarcher was right when he spoke of societies attitudes. Many of the parents from my school don't give a chuff about anything because
there's always a cushion to fall back on, be it drugs, social security, Trisha or whatever.
If mums (or dads) stayed and looked after their children and helped them to mature, then many of socieities ills would, if perhaps not be cured, at
least be relieved of some of the symptoms. But all political parties are based on an individuals greed (certainly since Thatcher's time), and
taking one wage earner out of the workplace will not help the nation become richer and hence the party in power will not be showered in an associative
glory.
Our exclusions have fallen dramatically because we keep the nutters in a separate area within the school so they don't show up on statistics.
That's an 'internal exclusion'
I've had discussions, fuelled by booze with many of my mates (non-teachers) and most reckon that as liberal attitutes gradually remove all
barriers to poor discipline (I'm not talking just about schools now) that it's impossible for things to improve. Look at history and these
could well be the augers of a cataclysmic event that them imposes a draconian regime back on society.
In laymans terms, things will turn to sh!t ,there'll be a revolution/war/coup D'etat/PM's heart attack or something and a hard line
regime will take control. That's roughly how things have worked historically.
Blair's lucky that he's found a new bogeyman in the form of Bin Laden etc because the social fear keeping people in line politically creates
a certain amount of social cohesion. We were all scared of the commies right? It's in his interest to keep this one hammed up.
Cheers,
Neil.
p.s. The number of kids who openly say that they're going to get rich from suing someone for something, anything is worrying becuase they
actually believe it.
But Noodle, even if this country (what am I saying! I'm in Australia, but I mean England) reforms, there's still the rest of the world.
It's unlikely they'll all just fall into line because we (you) do.
I've been thinking about this topic all day (thanks Hellfire ) and it's more than just a PC problem. The real problem has been hinted at;
it's civil rights. people, especially the younger generation have come to expect civil rights far and beyond their rights IMHO. It will
inevitably lead to anarchy and possibly Noodle's revolution. There are too many Kings, all wanting everything on a silver platter with no
responsibilities. The rabble need to be governed by ONE King (though I suppose a strong elected government would do). The foot needs to be well and
truly put down. People will have to be told no. No more of your crap. You don't deserve paid holidays. You don't deserve free this. You
don't deserve free that. And no, you can't sue The Man. And you will sit down, shut up and show me some respect. Your rights have been
curbed for the good of mankind.
Bloody hippies (Metal or otherwise 
) and their free love and "be cool" attitude of the sixties kicked off theis current revolution. As you
say, things will go full circle again. The sooner the better.
Bring back the 15th - 17th centuries when ale house wenches in flimsy low-slung tops who relished a good slap on the behind. And the old one-eyed man
in the corner would clout a youngster mightly with his hewn crutch for trying to steal a morsel of bread from his lead-rich pewter plate!
well i think the shame on the family name would work in small communities,
the ghurka's based near aldershot were always very well behaved because of humilliation and shame back home in nepal...
and that's quite a few miles away ...but maybe theres more to it than that.
also wern't they the best behaved but worst payed regiment we had!,
and doesn't northern ireland have the lowest crime rate in northern europe...
punishment beatens do work...lol,
[Edited on 30/1/05 by marcyboy]
I've recently been speaking to an Accounts Manager of an out of town Comprehensive School. She reliably informs me that the reason for
non-exclusion is quite simple. Each pupil or student is worth a sum of money - year 7 £1400/annum upto £2000/annum for a year 11. If you exclude a
year 7 the fund is cut by in excess of £3000/annum. Therefore, there is absolutely no incentive to exclude the insubordinate pupil or student because
the funding you get will be cut unproportionally.
She recently confessed to one of her pupils being excluded permanently for 'stabbing' a fellow pupil with a 6" bladed flick knife in
school and for no apparent reason other than his typically disruptive behaviour pattern. Unless petty violent behaviour is vigourously, curtailed this
sort of 'incident' is and will become more prevalent.
I wondered who was going to mention capital punishment first... maybe another poll on that subject would be interesting too.
I think that some of the posts are not for 'naughtyness' - stabbing someone or violence to a teacher is a crime and should be dealt with by
the state in legal process.
the problem with corporal punishment in schools is that the justice is crap.
there was more than one time that i got accused of summat that i hadnt done in school, but the teachers word was unmoveable. so, you woulda got
whacked if it called for it just on a teachers suspicions or say so.
this is the 21st century. Would you like your kids physically abused by a teacher? A teacher is someone with 4 years training and a degree - it doesnt
make em judge and jury. If any teacher had disciplined my kids with violence, i would likely be typing this from prison, after a little altercation
with a baseball bat.
There are better ways of dealing with problem kids than some teacher dealing out instant justice. You cant assault adults, so why can you assault a
kid?
i remember being dangled by my ear by a teacher when I was eight. Any teacher doing that now would rightly do time.
atb
steve
[Edited on 30/1/05 by stephen_gusterson]
[Edited on 31/1/05 by stephen_gusterson]
quote:
Originally posted by DavidM
Ban the bloody school run, make them walk. It'll be good for their health.
Let parents smack kids. I did, but I didn't have to do it very often as a stearn word usually sufficed.
David
When I was at school, punishment wasn't just meted out in a spontaneous fit of rage by some immature teacher.
You were made to sweat over your punishment for up to 24 hours, which was almost worse than the actual punishment, if any.
You were reported to the headmaster who would then announce to the ensemble the following morning at the end of assembly that he wanted to see you in
his study. You were publicly humiliated and booed at for a start, then you would be kept waiting outside the head's study for anything up to an
hour. Every time the hall door opened, your heart missed a beat or two. When the head finally arrived, you were a physical and mental wreck.
The head would then proceed with the evidence gathered from the teacher concerned and any pupil witnesses. Then in a cool and enlightened manner, he
would administer Six Of The Best (if that's what the offence warranted).
Being sent to the head's study was a tremendous ordeal. If my kids were punished in that fashion, I would be quite all right with it, but I
wouldn't want some repressed, sheltered teacher dangling my kids by the ear. A slap is OK and requires some thought to place it where it hurts
without causing physical harm.
the ear dangler was actually quite a nice teacher normally. but ear dangling was his trade mark.
my offence was it was april 1st, and i tried to pin a note to him. nuts. dunno why i did it! but i dont think it needed ear dangling.
the punishment similar to your 'waiting' one was that we were made to stand outside the headmistreses window - the fear was she would come
out and see you. this was what the playground minders would do to reprimand you. that school had kids no older than 7 in it.
atb
steve
as for the votes i would like to delve into what areas people fall in...
is it a class thing or a political thing or a sexuality thing...
maybe we could have a multi pole... but those of you who swing that way don't get excited
quote:
Originally posted by marcyboy
as for the votes i would like to delve into what areas people fall in...
is it a class thing or a political thing or a sexuality thing...
maybe we could have a multi pole... but those of you who swing that way don't get excited
quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
four childeren a week die in this country because of abuse by someone they know. thats suprising isnt it?
It's where evolution fails. The less successful parents often breed like I-don't-know-what-because-I-don't-want-to-write-rabbits.
Maybe they are the true inheritors of the earth, survival of the fitest and all that, and those of us who feel reasonably well balanced should
understand that our balance is just a skewed perspective on our physical existance. i.e. we're wrong and the big bloke pulling the strings from
in the clouds has got shares in Burbury and JJB Sports.
Well, it might be true.
Neil.
things might one day go full circle...
until the final straw breaks the camels back, but this is true for more issues not just corporal punishment...
or am i opening another can of worms
Mikerj
how many violent offenders are in prison, having been beat up by their fathers or whatever as a kid..... it can breed violence rather than cure it.
this all sounds like moany old git stuff, but i recon the breakdown of 'the family' has more to do with kids having problems at school and
self control, etc. I know several kids that dont have a father cos the mother thought it would be cool to have a kid in her teens, unmarried.
so, we suppose that whacking a wayward kid makes all the difference, and doesnt end up him accepting a culture of violence and 'spreading the
love' to others...
are not school bullies supposedly often those that themselves have problems somehow at home or in their lives?
lets not get to the bottom of that, lets just give em a good old thrashing, and their 15 year old mom a council flat.
atb
steve
[Edited on 31/1/05 by stephen_gusterson]
i love steves arguments...!
i know one kid who was bullied at school (for being the milky bar kid on telly commercials), now he's a violent dealer with a long criminal
history. Thats just one example of violence breeding more violence. Thats the main reason why ive (mostly) stopped swearing at people
(like kids who stick fingers up) and such stuff, cos it only set a bad example.
the bottom line with this debate is that if parents were consistantly good (or even mediocre) then discipline at school wouldnt be an issue. Im a firm
believer in tackling stuff at the root of the problem, so i would leave CP out and sterilize all chavs...
lol
In the 20's, you never gave anyone grief as you'd get a clip round the ear. You'd be poo scared of the police and had to join the
forces or do a hard days work down the mine or something to get through the bills. Crime rate - VERY SMALL.
In the 40's and 50's pretty much the same.
60's and 70's we all smoke weed and allow our kids the freedom to feel love and experiment - crime rate rockets and people EXPECT to be
given understanding when they quite obviously did a ridiculously stupid crime.
90's no children can be punished, the forces don't take you if you weren't good enough at school. The police are laughed at and
teachers get no respect - crime rate RIDICULOUS!!!
My kids get love. My kinds respect me. My kids were smacked (not hit) when they were younger. They are well behaved and rarely get into trouble and
never with the authorities.
My father BEAT me and I mean BEAT!!! I turned out OK but with issues I'd rather not dicuss.
It seems obvious to me that it lies firstly at home - DISCIPLINE IS ESSENTIAL IN THE HOME. A smack is fine if necessary but as children get older,
this should get less frequent as they start to understand the consequences you have taught them early on. Secondly, Society sucks and the government
and european knobheads have ruined any chance of sorting it by being caring and PC. It's all bollox!!! Bring back national service (crime rates
rocketed 5 or so years after this was stopped) and get them slapped around behind the bike sheds when they mess about in school.
There's kids round here who batter your car and when you confront them, they tell you to bleep off and leave them alone!!! I have slapped a few
and guess what - they haven't come back!!! One's Dad did and he got told where to go. He told the police and the officer was luckily a
decent chap and said 'I wish he'd have got a slap when he was younger and then he wouldn't have a rap sheet as long as he
has'!!!
I counter pressed and he said that the system would rip me to pieces for protecting my own property!!! I have recieved nothing for the damage caused
but it cost be £250 to put right!!!
Discipline is fine when used and not abused.
Some people in this discussion assume that physical punishment is abuse - what a left wing poncey attitude!!! Abuse is punchin a child in the head.
Physical punishment is a cane on the palms or a slap on the legs. AND IT WORKS!!!
I'm only 28 BTW so it's not as if I am biased because I went through the cane or anything - it's just common sense when you look at the
figures.
Rant over, give me a drink!!!
Hi Folks
Give up moaning about it in reality all we can do is to try to do a good job of raising our own children , be consistant , fair and teach them to
survive . I live in the country and my daughter goes to a very small school and it has no dicipline problems to speak of so may be it is the crowded
comunities that is a contributing factor here but like the justice system coperal punishment for children has its place but it needs to be measured in
its aplication and never threatened if there is no follow through .Oh and don't think that once they start school that your role as a parent and
role model ceases , You have to be their most important teacher .
Now can we all go back to car chat? this thread is catching up with talk of snobbery by owners of other types of cars and we are begining to go around
in circles
Best wishes
Iain
well said chunkie lad...
i can see your not a probation officer... lol(what an unsatisfying job that must be eh).
heres another reason to discipline your kids, have your say on ntlworld homepage...
everyday you can vote on something very apt...
Have Your Say
Should parents be taken to court if their children continually misbehave in school?
Yes, they are responsible for their behaviour (79%)
No, kids will be kids (15%)
I don't know (6%)
Current votes: 1035
[Edited on 1/2/05 by marcyboy]
Nice one - link here
CLICKY
Vote near the bottom of the page!
Have fun!
[Edited on 1-2-05 by Hellfire]
quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
Mikerj
how many violent offenders are in prison, having been beat up by their fathers or whatever as a kid..... it can breed violence rather than cure it.
this all sounds like moany old git stuff, but i recon the breakdown of 'the family' has more to do with kids having problems at school and self control, etc. I know several kids that dont have a father cos the mother thought it would be cool to have a kid in her teens, unmarried.
so, we suppose that whacking a wayward kid makes all the difference, and doesnt end up him accepting a culture of violence and 'spreading the love' to others...
are not school bullies supposedly often those that themselves have problems somehow at home or in their lives?
lets not get to the bottom of that, lets just give em a good old thrashing, and their 15 year old mom a council flat.
I agree with Mike. Discipline, if doled out correctly works well. But your kids have to respect the person doing the punishment or it wont work (eg
the chav slapper).
I was slapped as a kid, only if i was repeatedly naughty though, and i received fair warning in all cases. You cant reason with young kids so physical
punishment is the only way. And i dont mean a smack round the head, something like a smack round the legs is enough.
Once kids are high school age they can be reasoned with. It does seem however the repeat offenders do not to understand this reasoning and have no
sense of moral decency sometimes (it comes from the parent/s but can also come from 'friends' (peer pressure) IMO). If someone can come up
with a way of punishing these kids that actually works it would be great as:
Suspension: the kids see it as a holiday and come back just as bad
Exclusion: costs more to exclude a kid than it does to keep them on. If you do exclude then the excluding school must find another school for that kid
to go (which is absolute boll*ks if you ask me).
So neither of those work.
Something like Nat Service maybe? Repeatedly naughty kids get sent to 'boot camp' schools where its basically like being in the army. For a
few weeks/months and see if that helps, it would certainly wear them down if done properly (anyone watch bad lads?).
Kids are worse behaved (in general) today than say 30yrs ago. This could be put down to many factors. But looking back at the stats you would probably
find that when CP was stopped in schools the 'incident' rate went up. Often the threat is enough to stop the would be trouble makers having
a go. Unfortunately the threat has gone, so theres no deterrant. People in general dont repect the authorities, for whatever reason that may be. One
reason may be there is never any good news shown on the tv, all the news you hear about the police force is bad or puts them in a bad light, people
see it and lose their respect. (just an example of news, there are 68,000 more nurses in the NHS now than in '97, but does that ever get mention?
No of course not, its more interesting when something goes wrong in the NHS because the current government is always crap regardless of what they do
to try and improve [sorry a bit off topic there!]).
Anyway bring back CP, even if just for the threat of action being taken.
Rant over,
David
Ultimately if you bring back all punishments, (including capitol) then you have a big stick to hold over peoples heads. Those persistent offenders
will in time get locked away permanently. The big issue is that we DO NOT have the police force required to enforce the basic laws of the land and
those that we do have are too busy following political orders for statistac gains to do any good. If the chances were that you would get caught AND
you WOULD get a punishment then they WOULD think twice about the crimes. If there is a clear intent to ignore the LAWS then should that person have
the protection of the LAW.
Remember Capitol punishment cuts out repeat offences (generally).
Bring back the cane in schools I say.
The beliefs stated above are my beliefs and do not reflect upon any one else whom so ever. C. A. Taylor.
Enjoy.
I can't believe noone's gone for my electricity generating scheme.
Fitness, exercise, discipline and a valuable service all in one.
Everybody wins!
Neil.
treadmills that if they slow down they get shocked themselves, or 2 fellas in a massive hamster wheel and put them in naked... put the straight one
in the front and yes!! the not so straight one in the rear area and i bet they will generate some electricity...one trying to get away and one trying
to get his way,
there is a down side...when they are finally released they will be able to run that much faster... the amount of muggings would be up,
and for the more adventurous blagger he might not use a get away driver but those massive thighs he built up whilst on the aforesaid treadmill
just a possibilty for producing electricity whilst doing porridge
[Edited on 1/2/05 by marcyboy]
They bleep you up, your mom and dad,
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had,
And add some extra, just for you.
But they were fucked up in their turn,
By men in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were sloppy-stern,
And half at one another's throats.
Man hands misery to man,
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don't have any kids yourself.
Philip Larkin (1922-1985); RIP
KT
[Edited on 2/2/05 by krlthms]
[Edited on 2/2/05 by krlthms]
wasn't larkin gay,
which might explain a mamby pamby liberal approach...
quote:
Originally posted by marcyboy
wasn't larkin gay,
Interestingly enough:
1987 - State school ban Cp
1999 - Ind. schools ban CP
2001 - Ind schools as for re-introduction of CP
WHY?
The following is text extracted from "The Guardian" in 2001. Written by a school headmaster:
"We are noticing that our standards are being eroded slowly but surely," Mr Williamson said. "Since 1987, when corporal discipline was
removed from state schools, standards have plummeted and it is reflected in the violence in our classrooms."
The headteacher stressed that the school would not cane children. "For younger pupils, we would smack them on the hand or leg using the
teacher's hand. With older pupils, girls would be strapped on the hand by a lady teacher, and boys would be smacked on the backside with
something akin to a ruler, but wider," he said.
"We have vast experience in using these means and our parents are perfectly happy in the way we have handled children. We have contented
children, a secure atmosphere and no discipline problems at all.
"In the past we found that certainly with older pupils, we rarely had to administer [physical punishment]. It is definitely a deterrent."
Last year 85% of pupils taking GCSEs at the school achieved five or more A starred to C grades.
I think the correlation between lack of disclipline generally and the school age suicide rate in the last 20 years is staggering. (It has tripled - in
case you ask) Information gathered from various sources.
electric treadmills are all well and good, but i still prefer my Human Recycling Machine - we all need a good supply of leather, glue and dogfood. do
a search if you dont remember it!
Interestingly enough, around this very same period the quality of Rover cars went drastically downhill. Do you think Rover workers (you can substitute British Rail, NHS, etc) deserve a good thrashing?
quote:
Originally posted by krlthms
Interestingly enough, around this very same period the quality of Rover cars went drastically downhill. Do you think Rover workers (you can substitute British Rail, NHS, etc) deserve a good thrashing?
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
electric treadmills are all well and good, but i still prefer my Human Recycling Machine - we all need a good supply of leather, glue and dogfood. do a search if you dont remember it!
nope, just googled it though - what a great idea for a film!
how goes the new chariot?!
CP is OK but for car theft we need to bring back hanging
From cartoon watching I seem to remember Homer Simpson thinks Soylent Green was a great movie.
Never saw the film in its time as was to busy going to see Vanishing Point .
quote:
Originally posted by marcyboy
wasn't larkin gay,
which might explain a mamby pamby liberal approach...
quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
two points here david.
i have the right to drive where i like when i like how i like. if i chose to drive my kids to school, especially as one of mine went to school in the next town, 8 miles away, i will do that. how the frig does that have anything to do with anything?
my wife is doing a degree in childcare. There is a theory that allowing any smacking or violence to kids is wrong as there is no clear limit to whats right or wrong - how hard is a smak before it becomes a violent blow, before it becomes a life threatening injury?
four childeren a week die in this country because of abuse by someone they know. thats suprising isnt it? thats two pairs of holly and jessicas a week. It likely starts with a violent family member that gests worse and worse till the point where voilence becomes deadly.
some might see this as 'pc' or liberal, but 200 more kids would have seen xmas last year than did. At that rate 14 or so kids have already died at the hands of violent parents / partners / relatives so far this year.
If people knew that violence of any kind to a child was wrong, that could be no shaken baby syndrome, cos any shake would be too hard.
atb
steve
[Edited on 31/1/05 by stephen_gusterson]
quote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
quote:
Originally posted by krlthms
I
Add those to the mining industry... wasn't it more to do with the government of the day? No political bias intended. I see a trend emerging - don't you? BTW - what's happened to dear old Mark Thatcher? Has he been stripped of his title due to his alleged funding of dodgy organisations... strange how it comes back to haunt!
[Edited on 2-2-05 by Hellfire]
Sir Mark to you!
Last I heard he was planning a coup d'etat in Algeria, if he could only find it on the map
marcyboy - 3/2/05 at 01:16 AMquote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
quote:
Originally posted by marcyboy
wasn't larkin gay,
which might explain a mamby pamby liberal approach...
Don't think gay is quite the right word Larkin had a lot I mean really huge number of female lovers.
if he swung both ways... he would still be gay... even if only for half of the time,
Hellfire - 3/2/05 at 05:36 PMDid any of you guys listen to "5Live" today... isn't it strange how this subject keeps cropping up?
Turns out my daughter was being bullied at school... at the meeting I was present at today in school - expulsion was suggested/inferred. The reason why my daughter was being threatened with expulsion... for defending herself.... F.F.S. the world has gone mad!
marcyboy - 3/2/05 at 06:57 PMbasicly YES !!
Mark18 - 4/2/05 at 11:10 PMquote:
Originally posted by Simon
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
electric treadmills are all well and good, but i still prefer my Human Recycling Machine - we all need a good supply of leather, glue and dogfood. do a search if you dont remember it!
Fan of Soylent Green perhaps?
As for MGR making good cars, well...
ATB
Simon
It's people!!
Back on subject, I'm only 22 and I voted for CP, as a youngster I was a bit of a handful - I'm glad I got landed with the parents I have.
Mark
chunkielad - 5/2/05 at 12:22 AMMy son got called into the school headmasters office last year and told off for defending himself. When I went in to give the headteacher a bollocking, I asked him what he would do if I stood up and punched and kicked him. He apologised to Thomas (my son) and explained that the general teaching practise to to avoid ALL violence no matter what.
I then asked what had been done to stop the boy who Tom had hit back as this lad had picked on Tom for months. He said the lad had been suspended.
2 weeks later, the lad fronts up to Tom and says thanks for the time off. To which Tom replies. Next time, I'll make sure you don't enjoy it, Hospital food isn't nice
Funny, the lad never troubled Tom after. The school failed in dealing with the situation but standing up to the bully worked.
I say that if he'd had a slap by his parents and the teacher had caned his hands the very first time he bullied Tom, none of this would have been needed.
These boys are nione years old.
[Edited on 5/2/05 by chunkielad]
Hellfire - 5/2/05 at 01:22 AMquote:
Originally posted by chunkielad
2 weeks later, the lad fronts up to Tom and says thanks for the time off. To which Tom replies. Next time, I'll make sure you don't enjoy it, Hospital food isn't nice
Funny, the lad never troubled Tom after. The school failed in dealing with the situation but standing up to the bully worked.
This is the problem it seems... he got expelled, went or stayed at home, played on the PC or PS2 went out smashing up glass bus shelter's. No difficult school etc... thanks indeed he says.
So is this the answer to CP?
Instead of expelling - secure the darlings in a room with nothing, except homework. He/she does not leave the room all day... breaks and lunchtime they spend in the room. Their lunch is brought to them...
This is being trialled at a school near me now...
[Edited on 5-2-05 by Hellfire]
DorsetStrider - 5/2/05 at 02:27 AMJust a thought but bringing back the cane alone won't help.... parents also need to be made responsible.
My parents may not be perfect examples.... but when I was at school if I got into trouble and they found out about it I could expect a bloody good hiding when I got home!!!
Nowdays if a teacher etc tells a child off for something the next day they will have their mothers down the school defending the little SOB.
DorsetStrider - 5/2/05 at 02:33 AMOne other thought..... Caning will not be brought back..... reason? because the vast majourity of people (who think it should be brought back) are for the most part not very vocal.... the small minority of liberals that seem to beleive we live in a perfect world where everything can be sorted out with a kind word are a very vocal bunch.
As a result the people at the top listen to the outspoken lot because the others arnt' saying a word.
Hellfire - 5/2/05 at 10:48 AMIt's ironic then that 90% of people who expressed an opinion want CP re-instating. I suggest writing a letter to your local MP... see what good it will do.
britishtrident - 5/2/05 at 04:20 PMquote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
It's ironic then that 90% of people who expressed an opinion want CP re-instating. I suggest writing a letter to your local MP... see what good it will do.
I seem to remember a former MP Harvey Proctor ? who was rather too keen on administering CP ;-)
[Edited on 5/2/05 by britishtrident]
britishtrident - 5/2/05 at 04:20 PMquote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
It's ironic then that 90% of people who expressed an opinion want CP re-instating. I suggest writing a letter to your local MP... see what good it will do.
I seem to remember a former MP Harvey Proctor ? who was rather too keen on administering CP ;-)
[Edited on 5/2/05 by britishtrident]
Hellfire - 5/2/05 at 05:43 PMHeard you the first time