Board logo

Landy Peeps - advice please
TimC - 17/8/12 at 09:47 PM

We're moving at the end of the month to a house down a steep forestry track. We're probably going to need two 4x4s and one will have to be fairly serious for winter.

Can I please get folks' thoughts on this - eBay Item

Its local, presumably dirt cheap to insure and, well, appears pretty cheap & charming to me - vile seat covers aside!

owelly - 17/8/12 at 09:58 PM

My main concern would be the incorrect registration! I'm sure it hasn't kept enough DVLA points to retain the original 1974 V5.

Wheels244 - 17/8/12 at 10:44 PM

Hi Tim

If you know your way around this sort of thing - I think you'd be ok with it - it's not too expensive.

I would consider Owelly's point - although the current owner doesn't seem to have any problems with insuring it - at least it's not one trying to be passed off as tax exempt as is often the case with this sort of thing.

I had a hybrid years ago, but it was a coil converted 2a chassis - nice V8 in it

For not too much more money though, you could be into a 90Defender.

Rob

Doctor Derek Doctors - 17/8/12 at 10:57 PM

The Defender body on a Rangey chassis is a petty standard Hybrid. We built a couple and they both had enough points to satisfy the man from the government

You'd be better off just buying an old Range Rover though, it will have all the off-road ability without the hideously cramped and uncomfortable interior, get a manual V8 on LPG and it will cost you less to run that a TDi as well.... I just sold one for £700....

TimC - 17/8/12 at 11:09 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Wheels244
Hi Tim

If you know your way around this sort of thing - I think you'd be ok with it - it's not too expensive.

I would consider Owelly's point - although the current owner doesn't seem to have any problems with insuring it - at least it's not one trying to be passed off as tax exempt as is often the case with this sort of thing.

I had a hybrid years ago, but it was a coil converted 2a chassis - nice V8 in it

For not too much more money though, you could be into a 90Defender.

Rob


Ah Rob, I was hoping you'd be around to give me your view. Putting aside the registration thing for a moment, what would be the advantage of a 90 over this thing? I'm sure I've read about the 100 being ideal? I've not seen too many Landies at this price point without impending rust issues!

Callan, I take your point but the Landy body is pretty cool.

Wheels244 - 17/8/12 at 11:40 PM

quote:
Originally posted by TimC
quote:
Originally posted by Wheels244
Hi Tim

If you know your way around this sort of thing - I think you'd be ok with it - it's not too expensive.

I would consider Owelly's point - although the current owner doesn't seem to have any problems with insuring it - at least it's not one trying to be passed off as tax exempt as is often the case with this sort of thing.

I had a hybrid years ago, but it was a coil converted 2a chassis - nice V8 in it

For not too much more money though, you could be into a 90Defender.

Rob


Ah Rob, I was hoping you'd be around to give me your view. Putting aside the registration thing for a moment, what would be the advantage of a 90 over this thing? I'm sure I've read about the 100 being ideal? I've not seen too many Landies at this price point without impending rust issues!

Callan, I take your point but the Landy body is pretty cool.


Tim

There wouldn't be any great advantage other than if you went down the 90Defender route you'd be getting something relatively 'standard'.

The one on eBay is put together from bits which isn't necessarily a bad thing as you would hope any faults would have been rectified in the build.
I'm not sure it's a Defender body, could be a Series body with 90 wings and bonnet - the dashboard is definately out of a Series - not a show stopper, just a bit more old fashioned.

100" is considered the best wheelbase for offroading.

A 1987 'E' plate with a 200tdi conversion went for around £2k one of the Landrover Forums I go on - it was tidy too with 12mths MOT.

Doctor has got a point about an old Range Rover or Disco - but as I'm sure you're aware you'll have to be handy with the welder.

I'm a sucker for non standard things - if it's close, I'd go for a look.

[Edited on 17/8/12 by Wheels244]

Doctor Derek Doctors - 17/8/12 at 11:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by TimC
quote:
Originally posted by Wheels244
Hi Tim

If you know your way around this sort of thing - I think you'd be ok with it - it's not too expensive.

I would consider Owelly's point - although the current owner doesn't seem to have any problems with insuring it - at least it's not one trying to be passed off as tax exempt as is often the case with this sort of thing.

I had a hybrid years ago, but it was a coil converted 2a chassis - nice V8 in it

For not too much more money though, you could be into a 90Defender.

Rob


Ah Rob, I was hoping you'd be around to give me your view. Putting aside the registration thing for a moment, what would be the advantage of a 90 over this thing? I'm sure I've read about the 100 being ideal? I've not seen too many Landies at this price point without impending rust issues!

Callan, I take your point but the Landy body is pretty cool.


Well I can only let you learn the hard way...... everytime you smash you knee getting in, everytime you crack your elbow on the door when you go over a bump, every time you get cramp because you can't adjust the seat you will curse the day you didn't get a Range Rover. My first two cars were Landy's and the amount of time I finished a journey by slamming the door as I got out clutching a bashed limb while swearing at it through gritted teeth was suprisingly high.... its called "Land Rover Elbow" for a reason.

Wheels244 - 17/8/12 at 11:53 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Doctor Derek Doctors
quote:
Originally posted by TimC
quote:
Originally posted by Wheels244
Hi Tim

If you know your way around this sort of thing - I think you'd be ok with it - it's not too expensive.

I would consider Owelly's point - although the current owner doesn't seem to have any problems with insuring it - at least it's not one trying to be passed off as tax exempt as is often the case with this sort of thing.

I had a hybrid years ago, but it was a coil converted 2a chassis - nice V8 in it

For not too much more money though, you could be into a 90Defender.

Rob


Ah Rob, I was hoping you'd be around to give me your view. Putting aside the registration thing for a moment, what would be the advantage of a 90 over this thing? I'm sure I've read about the 100 being ideal? I've not seen too many Landies at this price point without impending rust issues!

Callan, I take your point but the Landy body is pretty cool.


Well I can only let you learn the hard way...... everytime you smash you knee getting in, everytime you crack your elbow on the door when you go over a bump, every time you get cramp because you can't adjust the seat you will curse the day you didn't get a Range Rover. My first two cars were Landy's and the amount of time I finished a journey by slamming the door as I got out clutching a bashed limb while swearing at it through gritted teeth was suprisingly high.... its called "Land Rover Elbow" for a reason.


Great fun though - I love mine, can't ever see me getting rid of it

Doctor Derek Doctors - 18/8/12 at 12:22 AM

Woah! I never said I didn't love them. I loved my old Lightweight. its just that I soon came to apppreciate that while it looked cool a Range Rover or Disco was just as good (usually better) off-road and offered a level of comfort that was acceptable to someone born anytime after the 12th century AD

We stopped building Hybrids like the one in the Ad' because we realised that we were just making something worse than the standard Range Rovers we were starting with. Bobtails, thats the answer!

mad4x4 - 18/8/12 at 09:23 AM

I would avoid HYBRID landrovers unless it is original part from an engine change.. .... Fist impressions - BINGER!

Just looks wrong. If it's 100 Inch then how did he get a 90" body to fit ? if it has a ranger tover chassis and is 1974 then why is it registered as a DEFENDER which only star production in Early 80's

If police check that on a motorway and get VOSA involved you be in for trouble.....

Should have been SVA'd IVA'd unless you can prove it was built before the SVA and then it would have been sorted in the ammnesty....!


Guess BUYER BEWARE!

wilkingj - 18/8/12 at 09:27 AM

Thats a series 3 Windscreen wiper set up as well (middle to centre wipe is S2 and S3, not 90/110 which is parrallel wipe). Hence I would suspect a S3 bulkhead, ie OLD (pre 1983), and therefore possibly another rust issue.
The Dash is definately S3. The only thing there thats a 90/110 could be just the wings or perhaps just only the plastic eyebrows.

Its got Sliding windows on the doors which is a S2/3, and not a 90/110/defender, as they had wind up windows all except for a very very few 1983 110's (pre-facelift model), Army windows are sliding, but have sloping glass not a straight vertical split like this one)

I would say some of this is a Series body on a rangey chasis, and the bloke has it shown as a Defender under the TYPE in the Advert, hence IMHO misrepresented. Namely its a S3 bulkhead, S3 doors to start with. It could be a cut down 110 rear tub and front wnings and bonnet. I cant tell from the pictures.

It looks a real Bitza. However, that is not usually a major issue for a Landy.

Bear in mind that some insurance companies will not like it. You will need to make a full declaration, or you could end up uninsured. Namely its all OK, until you have an accident and a sharp eyed insurance assessor spots its not standard, and that would not be hard to do. Leaving you with no vehicle and no or a reduced payout.

National Farmers Union were very good for a Landy insurance when I had mine. But mine was a std one.

A 1974 chassis will have tinworm somewhere. Check thoroughly, I take a thin screwdriver and test with that... watchout as a lot of owners dont like that sort of testing!
I would also check the chassis and engine numbers, against the VIN plate, and especially against the V5.
A TDi300 is a nice engine, the R380 gearbox is the best one to have. Expect 26mpg as an average. I have yet to meet a diesel landy that does 30mpg, as an average. Possibly on a run at 50mpg. They have the aerodynamics of a brick.

I would not buy that vehicle without a very close and detailed inspection by someone who really knows both Landies and Rangeys in depth.
ie someone who strips and builds them, not someone who just drives them.

Done a Vehicle check on the reg to see what its says?
IHMO its a Range Rover Van or Truck, or Van with Windows. Thats what I would expect to see on the V5.

I would bet that the V5 still says just plain Range Rover.

Just be very careful on this one. It could be good... But I would want ALL the paperwork completely straight / correct and in order before I parted with any money.

Just my 2d's worth.


EDIT:

Oh dear, just saw this in the questions...
" though off the top of my head it's registered as a 109 Land Rover,"

If its a Landy reg with a rangey chassis its an automatic Q plate.
ie the chassis has been replaced with a non identical chassis, and its almost guaranteed to be secondhand chassis.
Thus a secondhand chassis on a vehicle is an Automatic Q plate.

Li nky

Rangey Registration AND Rangey Chassis, should be OK, if done correctly. Landy Registration and a Rangey Chassis, is a BIG CAN OF WORMS!

At this point I would just walk away!



[Edited on 18/8/2012 by wilkingj]

TimC - 18/8/12 at 09:52 AM

Thanks Gents. I can't help wondering if the non-original chassis would really make any material difference to the safety and/or structural integrity of a vehicle like this but I suppose rules is rules.

Hmm.

wilkingj - 18/8/12 at 10:02 AM

quote:
Originally posted by TimC
Thanks Gents. I can't help wondering if the non-original chassis would really make any material difference to the safety and/or structural integrity of a vehicle like this but I suppose rules is rules.

Hmm.


This is more about the identity of the vehicle and the paperwork being correct, or namely NOT buying yourself a world of administrative hurt.

There are lots of hybrids about, and the chassis strength shouldnt be an issue. Rangey chassis are just as good as Landy ones. As long as thay are NOT RUSTY. Thats a 38 year old chassis, expect some rust!

The bloke does not seem to even know whats on the log book.
To me...that sets the alarm bells ringing. I know exactly what all the vehicles I had were and what was on the log book (at the time I owned them!)
Ask youself the same question... What is the car I drive, and what does it say on the V5? If you dont know that... it says a lot about the person selling it.

All I am saying is just be very careful if you decide to go ahead.

If you really want a Landy, then you will probably look at 10+ before finding a really good one. DO NOT BUY UNSEEN!!!!!!

If its just a 4x4 to get up a muddy track in winter, then think of a Suzuki, a Lada Niva / Cossack, or a Toyota pickup truck (4x4 version)
All of those tend to be a lot more reliable and less mucked about. They are all just as capable. I have seen a Suzuki SJ climb slippery slopes that a fully tricked out Landy could not make. It impressed me! Toyota are relaible and sturdy ie look at what top gear did to one!

Hope this helps..

TimC - 18/8/12 at 10:23 AM

Cheers. Not that it should necessarily make a difference, but the 'bloke' appears to be a young student/graduate who answers to Susie.

[Edited on 18/8/12 by TimC]

Wheels244 - 18/8/12 at 10:26 AM

This is one of the REALLY dodgy ones

Land Rover Series 2/Defender 3.5 V8 Hybrid Tax Exempt | eBay

Not much left of the 1966 vehicle on this one

mad4x4 - 18/8/12 at 10:28 AM

Could you live with this if the mods have not been done properly......

Landrvoer man myself , but I sold my hybrid for spares after this story....>!

Wheels244 - 18/8/12 at 10:30 AM

This doesn't look as though it was made in 1968 either !!

land rover 88' defender tax exempt 90 hybrid galvanised chassis red | eBay

tomgregory2000 - 18/8/12 at 10:43 AM

That's a series rear crossmember, I would steer clear of that

mark chandler - 18/8/12 at 12:03 PM

The only difference between a landrover not getting stuck in mud and a range rover/discovery being stuck is tyres.

The problem with range rover/discoveries is rust, not so much chassis rust as body rust on mounting points hence plenty of hybrids out there, some are mine !

If I was buying a car for this money to use then a late classic range rover is a good bet, high levels of comfort just shove some aggresive tyres on for the winter.

Regards Mark

[Edited on 18/8/12 by mark chandler]

TimC - 18/8/12 at 04:54 PM

quote:
Originally posted by mad4x4
Could you live with this if the mods have not been done properly......

Landrvoer man myself , but I sold my hybrid for spares after this story....>!


That is pretty chilling. Whether or not you should therefore view modified vehicles en masse differently is perhaps a point for debate. Do you not fly because planes have had failures?

I have to admit that I"m struggling with this. In many ways the hybrid in question seems to make a lot of sense. In other ways it seems like a bad idea. Ii'll have a chat with my local expert tonight and perhaps take him to look at it.

John Bonnett - 18/8/12 at 08:09 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Wheels244
This doesn't look as though it was made in 1968 either !!

land rover 88' defender tax exempt 90 hybrid galvanised chassis red | eBay






I wonder if the DVLA ever trawl through these "Tax Exempt" adverts.

I noticed this one the other day

LANDROVER 2A 1966 TAX EXEMPT | eBay

and that was pulled very soon after it was posted and it struck me then that he could have had a "Visit"!

It will be interesting to see if the other two highlighted will suffer a similar fate.

As it happens, I've just bought a '59 Land Rover to replace my Hilux which sadly failed its MOT.
Description
Description


[Edited on 18/8/12 by John Bonnett]

[Edited on 18/8/12 by John Bonnett]

MK9R - 18/8/12 at 10:50 PM

If you want a cheap landy try and early freelander with then old L series diesel. As long as its got the transmission in 1 piece and youask the right people for advice it will do everything you need. With the right yres on they are good off roaders, but will still reurn good mpg on road and a lot easier and less tiering to drive than a disco or defneder.

TimC - 19/8/12 at 12:42 PM

Went to see the Landy today with a guy who really knows his onions. Its not for me.

Liked:
300 Tdi engine - plenty of power, ran well although a bit of blue smoke on over-run
R380 gearbox was really really sweet - very car like
Range chassis seemed to be highly competent in general

Disliked:
Leaking brakes (x2)
Leaking power steering
Horrendous wiring
Loose a frame
Needs a total rebuild really

Ho-hum.

TimC - 19/8/12 at 12:52 PM

There's always this French Blue Niva
http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/lada/niva/lada-niva-4x4-1-7-lhd-2005/334280

mad4x4 - 19/8/12 at 01:42 PM

quote:
Originally posted by TimC
There's always this French Blue Niva
http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/lada/niva/lada-niva-4x4-1-7-lhd-2005/334280



Now then being Russian built they are like tanks!

wilkingj - 20/8/12 at 10:37 AM

I got an email from the Landy Advert.
They say the V5 shows it as a Land Rover 109.

I would say this should be on a Q plate under the radically altered vehicle rules from DVLA. (and should have had a SVA / IVA, depending on when it was converted)

It could turn into an administrative nightmare if it comes to light with the authorities, let alone the insurance company.

With a Secondhand chassis, off a different vehicle (Range Rover), and retaining the reg off the Landrover, it could become a major problem.

If it were me, I would not buy it.

Steve Hignett - 20/8/12 at 12:29 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MK9R
If you want a cheap landy try and early freelander with then old L series diesel. As long as its got the transmission in 1 piece and youask the right people for advice it will do everything you need. With the right yres on they are good off roaders, but will still reurn good mpg on road and a lot easier and less tiering to drive than a disco or defneder.


+1
I love the TD4 Freelander that I bought for Milenah, Tim.

Going to do an Off-Road day in it next Sunday!!!

TimC - 22/8/12 at 06:26 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Hignett
quote:
Originally posted by MK9R
If you want a cheap landy try and early freelander with then old L series diesel. As long as its got the transmission in 1 piece and youask the right people for advice it will do everything you need. With the right yres on they are good off roaders, but will still reurn good mpg on road and a lot easier and less tiering to drive than a disco or defneder.


+1
I love the TD4 Freelander that I bought for Milenah, Tim.

Going to do an Off-Road day in it next Sunday!!!


She's now adamant that she wants a Freelander. God help us. Rather annoyed that I missed out on a near immaculate Rangie Classic last night by about 20mins - someone had a best-offer accepted in the time that it took me to get the all clear.

Oh well.

TimC - 28/8/12 at 10:58 PM

The Freelander may still follow but this was just up the road, tidy enough and I couldn't resist:
eBay Item

Wheels244 - 29/8/12 at 06:15 AM

Great stuff Tim.

I've had a couple of Series 3's - one 2.25 petrol like yours and a V8.
I loved them both.
If you want to make it a bit more refined suspension wise - fit parabolic springs - makes a big difference on and off road.
Also if you want to give it more legs on the road - fit range rover/Disco diffs.
Does it have an overdrive fitted ? They make a big difference too.

Cheers

Rob

TimC - 29/8/12 at 07:17 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Wheels244
Great stuff Tim.

I've had a couple of Series 3's - one 2.25 petrol like yours and a V8.
I loved them both.
If you want to make it a bit more refined suspension wise - fit parabolic springs - makes a big difference on and off road.
Also if you want to give it more legs on the road - fit range rover/Disco diffs.
Does it have an overdrive fitted ? They make a big difference too.

Cheers

Rob


Hi Rob,

It's all reasonably standard/original I think. I'm looking forward to it gently evolving into something more usable than ever,

Cheers,

Tim

Peteff - 29/8/12 at 09:08 AM

quote:
Originally posted by TimC
Hi Rob,

It's all reasonably standard/original I think. I'm looking forward to it gently evolving into something more usable than ever,

Cheers,

Tim


First thing to evolve would be the engine Tim, you will be horrified by the fuel consumption of the 2.25 petrol. 12mpg is good and it doesn't make much difference how you drive them.

Steve Hignett - 16/9/12 at 06:55 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Peteff

First thing to evolve would be the engine Tim, you will be horrified by the fuel consumption of the 2.25 petrol. 12mpg is good and it doesn't make much difference how you drive them.


+1
And the other advice from further above still rings true about ability/comfort etc, however;

You will love it (if you don't already!) and I mean, love it to look at, love it to smell, to steer with 20 degrees of steering locj just to keep it in a straight line, you will love it when every conversation is done with a tone of voice only used in a Land Rover - louder than chatting, quieter than a shout...

Yes matey, great first foray into LR ownership you have there.
And as you commented above, re the Evolving that is to take place, what's first? Springs, Engine. Seat's I guess as that's a two min job and you already own them! Couple quick repairs to the doors to patch them up and deal with the corrosion - another sinple job since you have the orig paint to go over any repair! Just get some decent Etch primer before any painting - sure you know this already.

I've loved all the old series that I have been involved with, but just like a grandparents perogitive with their grandson - Loved to bits, but so glad they could give them back. And that was always my involvement, Tim. They were always friends vehicles, that I had pretty permanent access too.

Don't get me wrong, I was also on hand to help with the upkeep and I've also dropped a 4.3(1, 2?) litre TVR V8 into my friens S2 a lot of years ago, and that needed two steering dampers just to get it to anywhere near stable and in a straight line!

Let us see some pics and would like to see/read any updates you've done matey...

We're still likeing this Freelander too...

TimC - 16/9/12 at 10:43 AM

Hi Steve,

Essentially the plans are as follows:
1. Get it to the stage where everything works and it's usable. It needs a fresh MOT very shortly and there are some niggles - I did 150ish miles in it yesterday and the speedo stopped working and the manifold-to-downpipe joint rattled itself loose - now that got noisy! I've also managed to thrust a screwdriver through the chassis on the offside so that will need welding - the chassis is a bit of a patchwork already. Hopefully it will then drag us out of the forestry track to the house in even the worst weather and get us to work/the shops this winter. It'll also be pressed into action to tow the Gemini to a few race circuits.
2. Once the race car build is finished I'll then turn my attention to the Landy. Ideally I'd like to make it my daily driver. This will involve a total rebuild with a new chassis and bulkhead. The engine is TBC but might be a 2.5 petrol on LPG or a 200di conversion. Diff changes and/or overdrive will obviously be needed too, as would parabolic springs. Trigger's Broom? Maybe but its a big kit car really so why not have it how I want it?

Having driven "Edwin" (Kate always names our cars; Edwin follows Norris, Big Jeff and Wendy) a little bit now, I can foresee a time when I could happily live with it as a daily driver - I'm fairly hardy when it comes to motoring. Yes, it could do with going a bit faster with a few less revs on the (non-existent) dial and would benefit from a little bit of sound deadening but its okay and keeps things interesting at least. It was only a relatively short while ago when I was commuting an hour each way in a B-reg 1.2 Nova with no stereo - and its really not much worse than that for comfort and ride quality.

TC

[Edited on 16/9/12 by TimC]