Hi Chaps...

Apologies for the barrage of questions again, but I am having a little bit of bother, in fact, bother enough to make me consider selling up even though I have only had my Viento a couple of weeks...

Main bother:

Braking... the non-servo brakes seem to need a LOT of a push to slow me down and often it seems to shift from "not really slowing down" to "screech and skid to a halt" with little warning. This is also an issue for me, because despite (finally!) fitting into a kit car, the low position (surprisingly lower than my old TVR) makes braking quite difficult as I have a pretty much destroyed knee.

Do we think my brakes are set up a bit wrong? (The brake pedal is well forward of the other two pedals too and I dislike this).

Should I consider having a servo put in?

Secondary bother:

Whenever I put my main beam on, the third fuse from the left in the little line of fuses behind the dash, blows. It's fine on sidelights and fine on full beam. But moving the stalk up from sidelights to main, blows it... (it blows 5s right up to 25s).

Forgive my inexperience, I jumped for this car sight unseen because I missed two in the summer due to being quite ill.

[[I am located in Devon for any nearby enthusiasts]]



[Edited on 13/4/17 by Sterillium]

Brakes, sounds like you have some cheap pads in there, forget EBC rubbish put in our Mintex 1144's ferodo equivalents, if you still have to press to hard look at altering the pivot point, move it closer to the rod or vice versa to improve the leverage or fit a smaller diameter master cylinder. If your knee is really weak fit an inline servo from a p6 rover or similar and see how you get on.

Electrics sounds like a poor wiring, could be a damaged stalk mashing into an earth so check out with a test light.

I'll only comment on the brakes, if this is your 1st non servo car the amount of pressure needed to make the brakes work seems high until you get used to it, another factor is the brake pads,my car has wilwood front calipers, when I got it the brakes were crap, they had poly matrix pads, I changed to hawk and the difference is unbelievable, for a few quid you can change the total feel of the car.

Shooter

Im still struggling to get used to the non servo setup.
I have Mintex 1144s, but my concern is the amount of extra travel/force required to stop. That split second could make all the difference in an emergency stop. Not so much on an issue on track though.

I know there are a few threads on fitting a smaller bore M/C, but what is the general consensus on the best to go for in terms of compatibility with existing Ford pipes etc?

Also - get some pictures up of your car

[Edited on 12/4/17 by Banana]

I seem to remember somebody saying a fiesta m/c was a good choice, as it was about 3mm smaller in diameter than the sierra one.

In terms of brake pads, I changed from Wilwoods 'smart' pads to Mintex 1144s, there was a noticeable improvement. I did get a lot of squeal though, although some shims helped.

As mentioned, change the pivot point if you can.

On my Indy, the push rod is a piece of threaded bar with locknuts - if you've similar, adjusting this should bring your pedal in line with the others. I set mine so I could (attempt) heel and toe.

James

Thanks so far, chaps...

Regarding the brakes - I will get the pads changed, where do you lot normally buy them from?

But the threaded bar going across the pedal doesn't LOOK like it can adjust to put the pedal back in line with the others without putting the brakes on a bit...?

I'm a bit out of my depth with the wiring, not really sure what I am looking for, but I am going to try and hunt down someone local to help me.

Can anyone link me to a suitable servo? The only one I can find is out of stock.

It's a 3.5 Rover V8 Viento.

[I put photos of the car in the other thread!]

These little fellas? >>>>>> MINTEX FRONT BRAKE PADS MDB1175 FOR LUEGO VIENTO 2003-

Iirc the Sierra mc is 15/16" whereas most non servo mc's are usually 3/4", this gives more travel helping increase control/feel. I have used mk1/2 escort non servo mc's before but have just ordered a Suzuki sj413 one (from India on eBay) as a more modern replacement.

There really is a lot of travel - and with size 12 feet, it makes it very awkward.

I think I would prefer the sharper feel of a servo with a shorter travel... also, the brake lights only come on at "full press" which is pretty unhelpful for anyone following behind, so I think I need to adjust / replace the sensor there too.

As an aside - could I bring the accelerator up to a similar level to the brake by shortening the cable at the pedal end? Or is that not as simple as that...?

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Originally posted by Ugg10
Iirc the Sierra mc is 15/16" whereas most non servo mc's are usually 3/4", this gives more travel helping increase control/feel. I have used mk1/2 escort non servo mc's before but have just ordered a Suzuki sj413 one (from India on eBay) as a more modern replacement.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sterillium
There really is a lot of travel - and with size 12 feet, it makes it very awkward.

I think I would prefer the sharper feel of a servo with a shorter travel... also, the brake lights only come on at "full press" which is pretty unhelpful for anyone following behind, so I think I need to adjust / replace the sensor there too.

As an aside - could I bring the accelerator up to a similar level to the brake by shortening the cable at the pedal end? Or is that not as simple as that...?

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I had to tilt my throttle further back, as my size 11s kept hitting it when pressing the brake.

You can adjust the out cable length at the carbs id assume.

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Originally posted by Banana

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Originally posted by Ugg10
Iirc the Sierra mc is 15/16" whereas most non servo mc's are usually 3/4", this gives more travel helping increase control/feel. I have used mk1/2 escort non servo mc's before but have just ordered a Suzuki sj413 one (from India on eBay) as a more modern replacement.

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Do you happen to know the bore and pipe fitting sizes for the Suzuki MC?
Would you recommend?

[Edited on 12/4/17 by Banana]

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Maybe worth putting your location in your post a fellow locoster near maybe able to help sort the car

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Originally posted by ian locostzx9rc2
Maybe worth putting your location in your post a fellow locoster near maybe able to help sort the car

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Originally posted by Sterillium
Thanks so far, chaps...

Regarding the brakes - I will get the pads changed, where do you lot normally buy them from?

But the threaded bar going across the pedal doesn't LOOK like it can adjust to put the pedal back in line with the others without putting the brakes on a bit...?

[I put photos of the car in the other thread!]

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Description

Thanks Steve - I think you are absolutely right, its the bias bar I can see and I don't think it's set up quite right, I am going to take it to someone to have a look at put it up on their rollers to test it.

The brake sensor is in the back somewhere apparently, not at the pedal, so maybe air in the system is causing it to come on only when pressed very hard.

I will have a closer look at the adjustment of the brake pedal in a bit.

It also looks like the accelerator pedal could be hanging a bit low too (further widening the gap between the resting positions of the clutch / accelerator pedals). It appears that I could pull the cable an inch or so tighter where it sits in the little bracket in engine bay... and that might help.

I'm still at a loss to the headlamp fuse repeatedly popping though!

if its got a pressure switch for the brake lights you may be better off just changing it to a switch on the pedal (like most tin tops use - so lots of donor ones to pick from)
the pressure switches are easier to fit, but can be susceptible to air locks and if they die you've got to re-bleed everything


If you've got a twin MC setup with a bias bar there is a good chance you'll have a large bore one and a small bore one - its quite common for these to be connected the wrong way round (sending most of your braking effort to the back wheels)
or for the bias bar to be setup wrong so that its locked in place and therefore can't give you any bias to either axle
(these use the same generic MC's as most motorsport applications so are easily available in a range of sizes)

this might help:
https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/images/brakeclutchpartsl/Merlin%20Motorsport%20OBP.pdf


After all that if you still really want a servo you'll probably need a dual circuit remote type - CBS sell these, but they aren't small or cheap....
(you could use a pair of single ones)


as for your fuse issue there isn't much you can do except get the test light / multi-meter out and methodically trace the fault...

[Edited on 13/4/2017 by mcerd1]

The problems you have might seem major to you but are really quiet minor and should be easy to fix. First the brakes - as said by others, if you have a balance bar with two master cylinders first check that the smaller one is connected to the front brakes, if so bleed the front and rear brakes. What ever you do don't interfere with the balance until you get someone who knows what they are doing to help you - brake testing rollers are no good for setting the balance up. If the smallest master cylinder is bigger than 3/4 inch get a smaller one for the front brakes.

If your knee won't stand for unassisted brakes get a servo system.

The accelerator pedal should be easy to adjust, move or bend to the right location, just make sure the throttles open fully and close fully in the normal travel of the pedal and can't stick open.

A problem you might have with the brakes that might explain the sudden on off of the brakes is blocked flexible brake hoses, this can be caused by swelling of the rubber caused by some brake fluids (especially the wrong grade of silicon fluid) the hose opens at high pressure suddenly increasing the brake effectiveness from almost no brakes to almost fully-on brakes. This also makes bleeding almost impossible to get right. A quick check is to disconnect the brakes one at a time at each caliper - gently press the pedal and see if fluid pumps out of the disconnected hose - if not it's blocked - you will have to bleed the brake after this test.

With respect to the fuse - an honest auto-electrician is you answer here if you don't have the skill to sort it out yourself or a friend who knows what they are doing.

Before you make any real changes get someone who knows these cars to drive it and see if what you think is bad is just normal and just needs you to adapt.

Well, I still can't see any way to adjust the pedals in terms of how close to the driver they sit.... so I will leave that to an expert next week.

The bias bar seems out of line too.

Regarding the fuse that blows when I put main beam on - this (pic below) is the little plastic clip of wires that plugs in behind the stalk that operates the lights... should that loose wire be going somewhere?!


Help!

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Originally posted by Ivan
The problems you have might seem major to you but are really quiet minor and should be easy to fix. First the brakes - as said by others, if you have a balance bar with two master cylinders first check that the smaller one is connected to the front brakes, if so bleed the front and rear brakes. What ever you do don't interfere with the balance until you get someone who knows what they are doing to help you - brake testing rollers are no good for setting the balance up. If the smallest master cylinder is bigger than 3/4 inch get a smaller one for the front brakes.

If your knee won't stand for unassisted brakes get a servo system.

The accelerator pedal should be easy to adjust, move or bend to the right location, just make sure the throttles open fully and close fully in the normal travel of the pedal and can't stick open.

A problem you might have with the brakes that might explain the sudden on off of the brakes is blocked flexible brake hoses, this can be caused by swelling of the rubber caused by some brake fluids (especially the wrong grade of silicon fluid) the hose opens at high pressure suddenly increasing the brake effectiveness from almost no brakes to almost fully-on brakes. This also makes bleeding almost impossible to get right. A quick check is to disconnect the brakes one at a time at each caliper - gently press the pedal and see if fluid pumps out of the disconnected hose - if not it's blocked - you will have to bleed the brake after this test.

With respect to the fuse - an honest auto-electrician is you answer here if you don't have the skill to sort it out yourself or a friend who knows what they are doing.

Before you make any real changes get someone who knows these cars to drive it and see if what you think is bad is just normal and just needs you to adapt.

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Eek - i think to be honest looking at wires connected together with a little bit of electrical tape over the top that i'd start off by redoing every connection you can find with soldering and heat shrink tubing at the very least. Might even be worth at some stage undoing all of the tape over the loom and checking what lurks beneath

It's a bit spaghetti under there - although lots is neater and well labelled, this bit is particularly messy.

I can't get to the car to check right now, but I'm keen on ordering some new pads, do you think these will fit??

MINTEX REAR BRAKE PADS MDB1287 FOR LUEGO VIENTO 2003-


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141782201885

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Originally posted by Sterillium
I can't get to the car to check right now, but I'm keen on ordering some new pads, do you think these will fit??
MINTEX REAR BRAKE PADS MDB1287 FOR LUEGO VIENTO 2003-
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141782201885

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This is proving difficult. Any input welcomed:

Sierra REAR >>> MDB1287 pads

Sierra FRONT >>> MDB1287 (for 260mm discs)
OR >>> MDB1175 or MDB1883 (240mm discs)

I am sure that it's Sierra all round, but I can't find confirmation in the build file.

So looking at the pads on the car, I have found:

On the FRONT brake pads, the only thing I can identify is the (partial?) number: 6729370L A/F

On the REAR brake pads, I can read: Apec E1 205 00 - 1 882s
90R - 01023/231
PAD537 51B02

Despite all this info I can't locate a definitive part even on the Apec brakes website, there seems to be several "PAD537s" and none of the other number quite match up.

The rear pads, which I expected to be MDB1287 have the smaller pad on the outside, but the fronts, which I am sure are 260mm, which would make them ALSO MDB1287, have the larger 260mm pad on the outside.

Can anyone shed any light on this?

[Edited on 14/4/17 by Sterillium]

Ok... oily update.

Wheels off, still nothing new to see on the pads.

But the brake discs on the FRONT are D1009 and on the REAR are APEC DSK607.

This must help?

Ok... so a bit of research tells me that my front DSK607s are 253mm and my rear D1009s are 238mm.

So I am presuming that this translates to 260s on the front and 240s on the rear.

It must be painful for you chaps to watch me struggle like this.

If you post some pictures it may help

All I can say is keep at it. Non servo brakes do take some getting used to but once you have they're golden.... Your muscle memory adjusts and you can stop at will- you just stop expecting a gentle press to do anything significant but for subtle braking they're great.... As said that wiring looks horrendous. Just don't throw the towel in- you'll regret it for a long time. Trace those wires, get it sorted etc. Chocolate block it to begin with by all means but once it's working don't forget to spent the time with the soldering iron and the heatshrink to do it properly.

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Originally posted by Sterillium 240s on the rear.

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Originally posted by BenB
All I can say is keep at it. Non servo brakes do take some getting used to but once you have they're golden.... Your muscle memory adjusts and you can stop at will- you just stop expecting a gentle press to do anything significant but for subtle braking they're great.... As said that wiring looks horrendous. Just don't throw the towel in- you'll regret it for a long time. Trace those wires, get it sorted etc. Chocolate block it to begin with by all means but once it's working don't forget to spent the time with the soldering iron and the heatshrink to do it properly.

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sierra's have 253mm solid discs on the rear as standard (non-cossie ones anyway)

if the rear discs are much smaller they could be one of the conversion kits to upgrade a drum braked rear axle to take discs - some of these use smaller discs off the front of fiesta's
(most of these kits still use the stock sierra caliper and pads at least)


photo's would help us a lot

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the trouble with trying to use the writing on the pads to ID them is every brand use a different system and cross referencing them all is just about impossible if you don't know the brand....

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Originally posted by SterilliumI've only got the front wheels off at present - so took a few photos.

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Originally posted by SterilliumRear pads are definitely smaller... but look very new (hence all the clearly visible writing on them).

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Just as an update...

Fixed all the wiring issues, had the pedals re-positioned for my size 12 feet... had the brake system bled and brake balance set up by a professional... also had the Mintex pads fitted all round and the suspension set-up softer and more "road friendly"... then had a full service, a new distributor and a good polish.

It's actually awesome, I love it so much.

The ONLY thing I am still struggling with is the fact I can't drive it for more than around half an hour... I wish my mechanic could fix my knees up as well as he's fixed the Viento.

Still for sale, albeit with me trying relatively hard NOT to sell it, whilst my head and heart fight it out.

Well done for sticking with it, well worth it. Mine took a while but I'd getting there now. A bit of ibuprofen works wonders for joint pain..