John.Taylor
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| posted on 14/5/08 at 08:21 AM |
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Rebuild Pinto Efi not playing ball...
Finally got around to starting my rebuild Pinto Efi last weekend - the engine caught straight away but then died, I tried again and the same thing,
tried with some revs and it keep running (albeit rough as he11 and hunting around) with 1500rpm dialled in. Although I only ran it like this for two
minutes hoping that the engine management would sort it out (it didn't) I was surprised at how hot the engine got in such a short period of time
(aluminium thermostat housing burnt my hand when I touched it).
I let it all cool down and took the plugs out to have a look at their condition (see picture) and noticed that No. 1 was white and dry, No. 2 was
slightly less white but also dry, No.3 was a bit white and a bit wet and No. 4 was dark and greasy.
I looked into the engine through the spark plug hole and all four piston tops had a build up of oily sludge (see picture) which you can see my finger
print in.
I’ve checked the ignition timing and the inlet side for air leaks but all seems well. The fuel may be suspect as it’s been sat in a jerry can for a
year so I’m pumping it out tonight and putting some fresh Tesco 99Ron in, and the inlet manifold has been sat in the garage for 2-years so the
injectors could be suspect too. If it doesn’t run with the new fuel I’ll get the injectors in for cleaning and test.
What else could be causing it to stall without revs and run rough with them?
What could be causing the oily sludge on the pistons?
 
Rescued attachment Pinto Plugs LtoR 4-3-2-1.JPG
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John.Taylor
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| posted on 14/5/08 at 08:22 AM |
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Another Pic
 
Rescued attachment Pinto Cylinder Sludge.JPG
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 14/5/08 at 08:30 AM |
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Too lean, it'll start detonating
sure it was only 2 mins? Sounds outrageously fast to heat up, mine won’t burn me after 10. Buy a colour tune, that will let you see what going on
inside, well worth the money, you need the separate pinto adaptor for it mind. Don’t worry about the greasiness or any oil, that’s perfectly normal on
a rebuilt engine as it takes a while to clean itself inside. Good idea on changing the fuel, that stuff you have is well out of date.
Personally I'd add a bit of Redex to help flush out the injectors.
[Edited on 14/5/08 by Mr Whippy]
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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cadebytiger
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| posted on 14/5/08 at 08:42 AM |
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I know it sounds silly but do you have a leads on in the correct order? I managed to start my pinto in a similar way with the leads on the dizzy end
wrong?
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John.Taylor
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| posted on 14/5/08 at 09:12 AM |
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Leads are definately in the right firing order with the rotor arm going clockwise which points to No.1 lead at TDC when crank and cam pulley both
point to TDC too.
I have some unleaded injection Redex from a previous car so I'll add that to the new fuel.
I'm still worried about the sludge on top of the pistons though?
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jollygreengiant
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| posted on 14/5/08 at 09:30 AM |
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You have got the airflow meter plugged in???? haven't you.
Beware of the Goldfish in the tulip mines. The ONLY defence against them is smoking peanut butter sandwiches.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 14/5/08 at 09:39 AM |
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You can't read anything into the colour of the plugs after two minutes idling, they won't get anything like hot enough.
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 14/5/08 at 09:41 AM |
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If you put your hand over the tail pipe you can feel if a cylinder is misfiring. Putting an equal sized blob of grease on the exhaust manifold pipes
will show if one cylinder is getting hotter than the rest (see if any boils off quicker than the rest). Forget about the stuff on the piston crown, it
could have came from anything used in assembling the engine, they usually smoke like chimneys when first started.
I’d suspect whatever device is used to make the mixture richer when cold as simply not working, hence you have to rev it to keep it going. Buy like I
say a colour tune, fire it up and run it till its up to normal temp and will idle (make sure you don’t get it boiling and that there are no airlocks),
if it starts to pink shut it down. The colour tune window should show a bright blue flame, if it’s yellow or yellow’ish then it’s too rich, if it’s a
pale blue it’s too lean. Check the smell of the exhaust (clean rag held over the tail pipe) , if it is nippy kind of like the smell of cut metal then
it is too lean also, it should have a pungent heavy smell when right.
[Edited on 14/5/08 by Mr Whippy]
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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John.Taylor
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| posted on 14/5/08 at 10:12 AM |
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The air flow meter is plugged in and opens up when the engine runs. Everything that should be plugged in is plugged in - I've not tested any
wires to make sure the things that are plugged in are actually working as I'm looking at the more obvious things first.
I believe the Pinto adapter is the 18mm one so would the following 'Colourtune 500' one do off ebay do or would I need the new
'Colourtune M510'?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Gunsons-Colortune-Spark-14-18-Colour-Tune-Setup-Engine_W0QQitemZ160237208627QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item160237208627&_trkpa
rms=72%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C65%3A12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
[Edited on 14/5/08 by John.Taylor]
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saigonij
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| posted on 14/5/08 at 10:57 AM |
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what fuel pump are you using, and what fuel filter?
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saigonij
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| posted on 14/5/08 at 10:59 AM |
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also,
check the throttle pot...
One wire if +ve, one is earth and the other is the signal to the ECU. on idle it should be about 0.6 - 0.8v. preferably 0.8 at 1000prm.
with the engine off, but iginition on, press the throttle slowly and smoothly all the way to full throttle and make sure the voltage increases
smoothly all the way to 4.5v. do it slowly so that you can see any spikes...
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John.Taylor
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| posted on 14/5/08 at 11:21 AM |
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MK aluminium tank with swirl pot on bottom, standard sierra pump sitting below swirl pot, standard (new) sierra filter in engine bay. Sierra
didn't have pre-pump filter so neither does my MK.
Will check 'throttle pot' - do you mean the multi-plug that goes into the inlet manifold by the throttle linkage at the front of the inlet
manifold where the hose between the MAF and inlet fits?
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saigonij
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| posted on 14/5/08 at 12:15 PM |
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the throttle pot is the sensor on the throttle body - its on the engine side of teh throttle body.
you should be able to trace the sensor wire all the way back to the ECU, you can then use something like a paper clip to probe the wire in the big
60pin connector.
once thats done, id go round and double check all the earth connectons on the EFi loom, and the engine earths too, earths can cause funny problems.
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saigonij
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| posted on 14/5/08 at 12:17 PM |
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also, rough running could well be an indication of an air leak, or a vacume hose missed off!
make sure that all the joints on the manifold are tight ( use wd40 ) to check for air bubbles, and then check all the vacume connections on the
manifold - i think there are a few.
also , have you blanked off the brake servo take off?
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saigonij
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| posted on 14/5/08 at 12:19 PM |
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can you post some pictures of your engine setup, from as many different angles as possible, so we cna see how you have installed it?
shooting in the dark a bit at the mo.
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John.Taylor
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| posted on 14/5/08 at 12:29 PM |
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There are very few vacuum take off's on mine. There is one on the fuel pressure regulator that goes into the inlet manifold (its in place and
secure) and one from the inlet manifold that went to the braking system which I've left in place at the manifold end but taped up securely at
the other. With moving the oil filler from the front to back of the rocker cover the breather pipe to the intake manifold no longer stretches so
I've taped that up too as it would bypass the MAF otherwise.
I'm going to nip to Halfrauds to get a Colortune on the way home (seem to be as cheap as anywhere), pick up some new 99Ron petrol at Tesco and
give it another go whilst measuring the voltages at the throttle pot. If the flames aren't on the border of orange/blue I'll have a play
with the timing and if that fails, I'll take some pictures and post them tomorrow.
Failing that I'll get the injectors checked at the injection centre opposite where I work.
If that doens't work I'll start checking the rest of the wiring, coil, fuel pressure, etc.
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02GF74
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| posted on 14/5/08 at 02:04 PM |
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colour tune would be a good move.
my theory, and I don't claim it to be definitive by any means is that you are underfuelling - maybe due to injectors being partialy
blocked - can you remove from block and look at jet pattern?
I would have expected to see plugs black = rich until engine is up to temp.
and further speculation is because of that you are getting oil deposit on the piston crowon that is not being burnt away (plausible or BS?)
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BenB
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| posted on 14/5/08 at 03:58 PM |
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Just one hint on the colortune- don't rev the engine too much...
It's good for setting an idle but extended high rev running might break it- the thought that the pressure inside the cylinder is only held in
the engine by a small piece of transparent plastic is slightly unnerving but it hasn't popped out yet!!!
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