greggors84
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| posted on 15/10/03 at 02:44 PM |
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Unleaded???
I bought an engine off a mate a while ago, who used it in his buggy for racing. I didnt think about it at the time, but i dont know if it will run on
unleaded or not. The mate bought it off another buggier (?) a while ago, i got his number and tried calling him but no luck. The head has had the
valves largened, so i though they would have converted it to unleaded while they were messing about with the head.
My mate used to run it on leaded but has no idea whether it can take unleaded. I was thinking about phoning vulcan or someone else who tunes pintos,
to see if they have any ideas, but though i would ask here first.
I havent got the engine in the car at the moment, so i cant run it at all. I only bought it for £275 which was a bargain for the twin webber 45s
alone. It has had alot of work done on it, and runs perfect, (ive seen it running and there were no signs of trouble) so i dont really want to get rid
of it.
What problems would i have running it on leaded or LRP, except having to keep on puttin additive in it. (or is that only it if i put unleaded in
it?)
Thanks
Chris
The Magnificent 7!
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GO
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| posted on 15/10/03 at 02:57 PM |
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You'll only need an additive for unleaded, but I believe that to be a better approach than using lrp. The problem with lrp is that each brand
have their own formula (as I'm sure is true for unleaded as well but to a lesser extent), basically the extra chemicals they put in lrp to get
it to burn cooler (its the higher heat that unleaded burns at that kills the exhaust valve seats) dont mix between brands and may lead to more
damage.
The last time I looked into it I believe the consensus was that running a leaded engine with unleaded will slowly destroy the exhaust valve seats but
shouldnt do much more damage than that.
Two choices...
1. use an additive, can be expensive and you have to always make sure you've got some with you in the car, but you can get stuff thats an octane
booster as well which saves you from having to retard the timing and thereby losing a small amount of power
2. use super unleaded, shouldn't need to retard timing, its only 1 RON down on old fashioned leaded, your valve seats will slowly erode (but you
may have a number of 1000's of miles before wear is detectable), get valve seats replaced when necessary. no upfront costs and no hassle, but
you may have to have seats replaced eventually if they havent been done already.
3. (just thought of one more...) find the list of garages that still sell leaded and make sure you dont stray too far from one of those!
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rell
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| posted on 15/10/03 at 03:02 PM |
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I it has been converted to unleaded you can usaly see a line round the exhorst valve where the insert meats up with the head the only thing is you
have to take the head off to see
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greggors84
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| posted on 15/10/03 at 03:38 PM |
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How much does it cost to have hardened seats fitted? And can most decent engine tuning places do it?
Thanks
Chris
The Magnificent 7!
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Simon
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| posted on 15/10/03 at 03:53 PM |
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Chris,
Would suggest that before having any head work done, work out your annual mileage and diff in cost of u/l and leaded and work out how much more it
will cost using LRP, then find out how much for the head work, and see if it's worth it.
Quick eg based on 4000 miles/year at 30mpg
U/l £3.41/gallon (total for year = £454)LRP £3.68/gallon (total for year = £490)
Saving £36!!
Head work £200 (wild guess) + hassle
=5.5 years of motoring
ATB
Simon
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ned
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| posted on 15/10/03 at 04:01 PM |
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I had a triumph 1300 head changed to unleaded spec (new valve seats) about 4 years ago for £120 at my local engine shop. can't think it'll
have gone up that much, maybe £!50 now?
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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dblissett
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| posted on 15/10/03 at 04:43 PM |
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there should be a letter or two cast into the head near no 4 spark plug on a 2ltr pinto p, pp and r all mean it is unleaded from ford
also it is normaly only the inlet valves that are changed to larger
ones only race pintos tend to have bigger valves fitted
cheers dave
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dblissett
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| posted on 15/10/03 at 04:48 PM |
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sorry the last post should read only race pintos have large exhaust valves fitted.
eg vulcan only do it as a top spec
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greggors84
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| posted on 15/10/03 at 08:14 PM |
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So, i should be ok if i stick to one brand of LRP. Is it a lower octane rating, or will there be any noticable power advantage to using unleaded?
I dont really want to risk using unleaded incase it causes some long term damage.
BTW Vulcan said it would cost about £250 for unleaded conversion.
Chris
The Magnificent 7!
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chrisg
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| posted on 15/10/03 at 08:43 PM |
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Just browsing Practical classics , found this ad
Unleaded Conversions
By C&G qualified engineer
4 cyl £65;6 cyl £85
Tel HEADLINE
01782 212600
Mob:07754 684799
I haven't used them so not a personal recomendation and No connection etc
Just checked the dialing code and it's Stoke/ Staffs area
Cheers
Chris
[Edited on 15/10/03 by chrisg]
Note to all: I really don't know when to leave well alone. I tried to get clever with the mods, then when they gave me a lifeline to see the
error of my ways, I tried to incite more trouble via u2u. So now I'm banned, never to return again. They should have done it years ago!
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greggors84
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| posted on 16/10/03 at 12:11 AM |
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Thanks for that Chris. Rich, who im building the car with, lives in stafford, so it wont be a problem getting it done there.
Chris
The Magnificent 7!
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Dusty
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| posted on 16/10/03 at 09:29 PM |
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2.0L pinto heads have a stamped letter(s) on the exhaust manifold face by No 4 plug/port as in the photo below. All injection heads are unleaded but
not all carbed ones. L, P, PP, R & RR are all suitable for unleaded. The R below was on an injection head.
 
Rescued attachment headstamp.jpg
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andyps
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| posted on 16/10/03 at 10:14 PM |
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It is often said (though I have no personal experience/proof) that the only time an engine suffers when using unleaded if designed for leaded is at
constant revs for prolonged periods - e.g. motorway journeys. If this is true, unless you plan on using your car for regular motorway commuting (which
is unlikely in any 7 derivative) you will probably be fine using unleaded. It is recommended to put either LRP or genuine 4 star in occasionally
though, just as a top up!
Andy
An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 16/10/03 at 10:21 PM |
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There are 2 reasons why a head may need leaded fuel. It may not have inserts and needs the lead for lubricant or it has inserts but needs a higher
octane rate because of heat build up due to the rapid burn of the low octane fuel. All ally heads have inserts but not all can use unleaded all the
time, especially on long journeys because of the octane thingy - the trick is knowing why your head needs leaded fuel.
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 16/10/03 at 10:22 PM |
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There are 2 reasons why a head may need leaded fuel. It may not have inserts and needs the lead for lubricant or it has inserts but needs a higher
octane rate because of heat build up due to the rapid burn of the low octane fuel. All ally heads have inserts but not all can use unleaded all the
time, especially on long journeys because of the octane thingy - the trick is knowing why your head needs leaded fuel.
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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DrEagle
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| posted on 17/10/03 at 11:15 PM |
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Lead aint Dead!
Hi all,
Firstly I'd just like to congratulate you all on the fantastic forum. What a brilliant source of info and advice.
I could not resist getting involved even though I feel like a spy! The car I am trying to build is very different from yours, but it is Ford Cortina
based. I have picked up an abandoned project of 18 years hence - an Eagle SS.
Getting to the point have you chaps found this website?
http://www.leadedpetrol.co.uk/
On the site you'll find: a full list of petrol stations selling leaded petrol in the UK, links to suppliers of parts and services such as
storage and gearbox repairers, as well as links to owners' and enthusiasts' clubs.
Regards
Simon
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JoelP
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| posted on 17/10/03 at 11:22 PM |
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Welcome to the site Doc! an interesting link. dont think ive ever owned a leaded car but useful stuff if i do one day.
can leaded be used in a normal modern engine?
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Peteff
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| posted on 18/10/03 at 02:50 PM |
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Not if it has a catalyst fitted. It stops them working and they are quite expensive to replace. A good alternative to the head thing is Millers RSV
from Frost UK. If you plan on using it you can buy it in bulk, cheaper that way. It is an octane booster and lead replacement combined. I used to use
it in a Mini and it works well.
yours, Pete.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 18/10/03 at 03:37 PM |
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i ran one of my midgets.(suposed to be the worst head for valve seat recession) for 2 years on unlead and never had a problem,did plenty motorway
millage as well
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
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