froggy
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| posted on 18/3/07 at 12:23 PM |
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twin engined kitten
ive just bought a left hand drive kitten from holland and have done a little sketch of how i want to mount the engines, i cant see any problems as i
have a 3.62 lsd diff to form the basis of the chain drive and have some measurements of the engines i want to use but i may have overlooked something
so any suggestions please
P.S this is another locost build and my preferred engine is the zzr1100 but smaller units may be easier to fit
 
Rescued attachment bits 035.jpg
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Coose
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| posted on 18/3/07 at 12:32 PM |
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A bloke I know builds grass trackers and that's how he did the VTR1000 engined Cinquecento that I was looking at in his garage a couple of years
ago....
Spin 'er off Well...
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bigrich
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| posted on 18/3/07 at 12:38 PM |
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i presume they are chain drives to the diff, i would be concerend about the length of these esp the front engines could you not use two shorter chains
to a central shaft behind the engines and a shorter single or double chain to the rear to keep the chain runs shorter.
i,m sure i saw a grass buggy with a similar setup at Autosport this year.
Rich
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froggy
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| posted on 18/3/07 at 12:50 PM |
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i think that although the chain runs are on the long side it will be easier to make the adjustment on the diff mounts than have to adjust two sets of
chains, i have to do my kitten van every time i go out in it but to be fair the chain is tired on it.i had though of a jockey wheel on each chain run
to compensate for the length.
i cant see any other issues than the length of the chain for the front engine and if i can find a bigger die for my tube bender i might be able to
butt the engines closer together if i can get the exhaust on the rear engine out of the way. i already have a zx10 donor and going on the weight of my
van i should be on for 600kg and 280hp
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froggy
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| posted on 18/3/07 at 01:31 PM |
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here she is[img]http://locostbuilders.co.uk/upload/a524736-kitten20030418[1].jpg[/img]
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Bob C
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| posted on 18/3/07 at 03:37 PM |
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Certi - bleedin - fiable... ;^)
Is the robin mobile yet?
cheers
Bob
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ReMan
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| posted on 18/3/07 at 04:45 PM |
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Am I right in thinking, one of the big issues with twin engine set ups like this is being 100% of getting the gearchanges in sync, and the longer the
linkage the bigger the risk.
I guess one running in a higher gear than the othe would soon make a bang!
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Memphis Twin
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| posted on 18/3/07 at 04:54 PM |
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Love it!
What about belt drive?
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worX
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| posted on 18/3/07 at 05:17 PM |
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Would the chain length be a problem if it was supported?
A lad at Uni made a Baler(? - collecting hay bales round his farm) and because of the size of it he ran a really long chain and to get round one of
the problems the chain ran on two strips of hard nylon, I was thinking something along the same lines for you (although paired up obviously!) even
though the horsepower is not at all relevant as is the speed the chain will pass over the nylon?
atb
Steve.
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froggy
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| posted on 18/3/07 at 07:12 PM |
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im thinking of using a couple of front sprockets and some spring tension to keep it from flapping around. as for the gearchange it would have to be on
cables and as long as the levers and pivots were the same it should work .
bob, i think i will need some bearing blocks for this one as i dont think i can drive it with a solid diff
the thunder pig will have its prop back this week then a bit of bracket work before the body goes back on
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richard thomas
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| posted on 18/3/07 at 07:44 PM |
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Whilst I love the idea and concept, I would bare my *rse in public before I would sit next to a drive chain of that length!!!
Surely you will make a cover for it?
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JoelP
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| posted on 18/3/07 at 09:57 PM |
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i can only think of two contributions, one good and one half baked.
Using slipper clutches would (i believe) prevent one engine pushing the other through its red line in the case of gear mismatch.
And possible it would be better to use belts rather than chains? Not very locost if you can do the chains yourself cos i guess you need a specialist
for belts, but they are quieter, lighter and have less losses i believe, and are surely less likely to break. Also easier to get a tensioner onto it.
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oadamo
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| posted on 18/3/07 at 10:09 PM |
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please tell me your gonna drive round with them steel wheels on. baiting the chavs pmsl
that will be quick as f*** when done ill pay you to take me for a spin in it lol
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NS Dev
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| posted on 19/3/07 at 08:22 AM |
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That will work fine froggy.
Your issue won't be with the long chain being too long, but more the short one being too short.
You'll find the short chain is pretty short lived, but it will certainly work.
You could do one engine above and slightly to the rear of the axle, and the other in front, would give a nicer setup, but you would need a stepoff for
the rearmost engine drive to clear the end of the engine.
No clutches etc needed for linking the engines, just use a pair of cable shifts and adjust it so they shift together, nowt tricky about that.
Take it you're using an lsd on this one??
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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russbost
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| posted on 19/3/07 at 08:56 AM |
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Only issue I can see is that you'll need to be able to move one of the engines to provide separate adjustment on both chains as they will
obviously wear at different rates, moving the diff will adjust both the same. My twin ZX10 gearshifts are by mechanical linkage & work fine,
occaisionally you'll get a false neutral & missing a gear can result in being in ,say 2nd on one engine & 3rd on the other but providing
you don't take it past the redline on the engine thats in the higher gear it causes no problems with driveability (bike gear ratios are very
close anyway once your into 3rd or above).
Good luck with it, you should have similar power to weight to mine, but slightly more understated looks!!!
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headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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oadamo
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| posted on 19/3/07 at 05:20 PM |
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i dont no if this idea would work but couldnt you use two sierra diffs one engine driving each diff and join the two inner diff shafts together and
use the two outer ones for the wheels just an idea
adam
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JoelP
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| posted on 19/3/07 at 07:48 PM |
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the inner pair of shafts would just spin freely
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froggy
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| posted on 19/3/07 at 07:51 PM |
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i think the plan will be to fix the engines and use a sprung tensioner on each chain run to keep the chain sort of tensioned and make the same
adjustment set up as i have on my van. im hoping that the engines will start about level with my knees and end a little bit behind my arse,
unfortunately icant run this one on 10"wheels as it really does need to stop properly but iknow that z-cars made some front uprights for my
mate,s zx10 powered kitten which take ford brakes and my de-dion jig is set up for ford hubs on the back , this is new territory for me as i think
this will cost over 2k to build
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Bob C
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| posted on 19/3/07 at 08:18 PM |
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Re bearing blocks etc. if you need some lathe time just give me the nod
Bob
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ReMan
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| posted on 19/3/07 at 10:45 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by russbost
both the same. My twin ZX10 gearshifts are by mechanical linkage & work fine, occaisionally you'll get a false neutral & missing a gear
can result in being in ,say 2nd on one engine & 3rd on the other but providing you don't take it past the redline on the engine thats in the
higher gear it causes no problems with driveability (bike gear ratios are very close anyway once your into 3rd or above).
!!!
This is the point I was trying to make.
How do you know one is in the wrong gear though?
How do you fix it, do you have to get out and waggle the shift for the one engine to re-sync them?
Cheers
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froggy
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| posted on 20/3/07 at 07:08 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Bob C
Re bearing blocks etc. if you need some lathe time just give me the nod
Bob
cheers mate but i may need some tuition the closest thing i have to a lathe is a nine inch grinder
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NS Dev
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| posted on 20/3/07 at 08:07 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ReMan
quote:
Originally posted by russbost
both the same. My twin ZX10 gearshifts are by mechanical linkage & work fine, occaisionally you'll get a false neutral & missing a gear
can result in being in ,say 2nd on one engine & 3rd on the other but providing you don't take it past the redline on the engine thats in the
higher gear it causes no problems with driveability (bike gear ratios are very close anyway once your into 3rd or above).
!!!
This is the point I was trying to make.
How do you know one is in the wrong gear though?
How do you fix it, do you have to get out and waggle the shift for the one engine to re-sync them?
Cheers
I have never seen a gearshift on a grasser come out of synch in 4 years and 300 or so twin engine cars.................
With the hammering these take during races I wouldn't worry too much about it!
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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NS Dev
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| posted on 20/3/07 at 08:09 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by froggy
quote:
Originally posted by Bob C
Re bearing blocks etc. if you need some lathe time just give me the nod
Bob
cheers mate but i may need some tuition the closest thing i have to a lathe is a nine inch grinder
Good luck Froggy, nice to have somebody else on here as stupid as me, if not more so!!!!
Worth remembering that GB Engineering are not far from you (based near Nantwich) if you need any special bits.
I also found JB Gears in Leeds excellent for sprockets, really good prices!
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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froggy
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| posted on 20/3/07 at 08:14 PM |
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i have to admit this one is relly getting my juices going ,so much so that i may sell my v8 4wd project to fund some more monstrous engines maybe a
pair of zx12,s. i think yours is about as silly as mine but there isnt a lot in it have you any forecast on the weight for yours? i should be
between 575 -600 realistically
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NS Dev
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| posted on 21/3/07 at 08:41 AM |
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about the same for mine I'm thinking, hopefully mid 500's
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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