gahgah
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 posted on 18/1/07 at 11:42 AM |
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Pinto Engines
I dream about building a Locost and am researching madly. What is the general opinion on the relative merits of a Sierra CVH, DOHC, SOHC etc. And
what is a Pinto engine?
I am about to retire and have experience of working on vehicles. Part of me likes the sound of spark plugs etc., but I appreciate fuel injection and
ECUs etc. what is the consensus on this issue?
I just want to build a car that runs well and does not cause me too many headaches.
Many thanks.
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Humbug
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| posted on 18/1/07 at 12:15 PM |
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Welcome to the forum!
a Pinto is the "normal" SOHC Sierra engine, came in 1.6 and 2.0 forms, if I remember right. The 2.0 is widely regarded as a good and
fairly cheap basis for a Locost and there are lots of tuning possibilities.
Some Sierras had a 1.8 CVH (also used in FWD format in Escorts, etc.). I think this is not so well viewed.
The DOHC was used in the last couple of years of Sierra production. This is not so tunable.
Do a search on here - no doubt someone else will post their opinions.
btw, don't forget that you can use other engines - I've got a Rover K-series in mine, for example, and then there are bike engines to
consider.
This is on the Sierra Owners Club
http://forum.fordsierraclub.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=20776
and this from Crustworld:
http://www.crustworld.co.uk/sierra/techspec/index.html
Have fun
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DarrenW
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| posted on 18/1/07 at 12:17 PM |
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SOHC and Pinto are the same thing. Various sizes but 2.0 generally regarded as best to go for. Old hat technology, quite heavy, quite robust, can
easily get 120bhp and 0-60 in 6.5 secs. 160bhp is a touch harder but can give under 5.5secs to 60 (and varying scales in between).
By Spark plugs i assume you mean carbs. Nothing wrong with this approach and quite common (this is what i have). Im hoping to upgrade from 38DGAS to
quad bike carbs soon.
On pinto you can have std points ignition, std electronic or aftermarket megajolt if you fancy a kind of ECU and 3-D mappable etc.
Cant comment on DOHC other than they are out of favour generally with car builders as perf parts are not so easy to come by. Again cant comment on CVH
other than they allow a total donor route and hence quite locost.
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mcerd1
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| posted on 18/1/07 at 12:20 PM |
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A Pinto is a Ford SOHC engine
its old and heavy but simple and strong (comes in old carburated or newer fuel injection flavours)
DOHC engines are a little newer but there is very little that can be done to tune them
Just about all pertol cars on the road have spark plugs
but I think that what you ment was that you might prefer the old distributor (dizzy) and carburator setup - rather than the modern electronic ignition
and electronic fuel injection - but that you might be persuaded otherwise
have a look here for info on the ford engines (look in tech support):
https://www.burtonpower.com/default.aspx
also don't nessisarly limit yourself to engines you can find in a sierra - there are lots of other options
The bigger questions are things like:
what are you going to use the car for ? (road or track)
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JAG
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| posted on 18/1/07 at 12:24 PM |
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I agree with all of the above particularly;
quote:
don't nessisarly limit yourself to engines you can find in a sierra
Check out all other options. Many will propose the Vauxhall 2.0 engine and I used a Mazda MX5 lump.
Justin
Who is this super hero? Sarge? ...No.
Rosemary, the telephone operator? ...No.
Penry, the mild-mannered janitor? ...Could be!
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NS Dev
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| posted on 18/1/07 at 12:33 PM |
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echo the above.
Don't forget that the vauxhall 2.0 8 valve engine is lighter than a pinto, tougher and costs nothing to buy, and is dead reliable and easy to
work on.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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DarrenW
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| posted on 18/1/07 at 12:49 PM |
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Stick a bike engine in it!!
All the best,
Steve / Phil (Team Hellfire)
Seriously though, Sierra engines could get you a cheap car but not necessarily a great car. Pinto is very heavy but does the job admirably.
What do you want the car for?
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luz008
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| posted on 18/1/07 at 01:30 PM |
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how about using a zetec - they have better flowing heads,there lighter,higher powered (130bhp standard and with different induction and ecu 170bhp)
and there also cheap - about £150 for a complete 2.0 from a mondeo.
pintos are good engines but it is getting harder to find a decent one now adays
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mcerd1
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| posted on 18/1/07 at 01:45 PM |
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One other thing to consider is the age of the engine for the emmisions test
When (/if) you SVA your kit the emissions test should be done based on the age of the engine (as long as you can prove the age) modern engines (post
93 or 95 - I can't remember which) have a tougher test and will need a cat - older than this and you won't need a cat
Pintos won't need a cat - but zetecs will, some of the Vauxhall 8v engines are old enough too and so on
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graememk
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| posted on 18/1/07 at 01:59 PM |
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you need to go to a locost meting the next one is 1st monday in feb i think at eye green peterborough, theres a few cars about normally to have a look
at.
why not go with a xflow to start with as they are very easy to install for a newbie
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iank
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| posted on 18/1/07 at 02:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
One other thing to consider is the age of the engine for the emmisions test
When (/if) you SVA your kit the emissions test should be done based on the age of the engine (as long as you can prove the age) modern engines (post
93 or 95 - I can't remember which) have a tougher test and will need a cat - older than this and you won't need a cat
Pintos won't need a cat - but zetecs will, some of the Vauxhall 8v engines are old enough too and so on
Engines manufactured after 1 Aug 95 need a cat.
Doesn't matter what type of engine you have you need some evidence of this date - a V5 is ok for a donor engine. Some manufacturers can
give/sell you an official letter with the date given the engine number.
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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gahgah
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| posted on 18/1/07 at 02:27 PM |
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Wow! 
What a response and so quick.
A lot to digest here.
Thanks everybody.
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24vseven
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| posted on 18/1/07 at 04:33 PM |
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stick with a 1600cc crossflow light enough to carry around well almost
loads out there to tune them
145 bhp can be had
pintos are old and heavy cost a fortune to tune and have poor rocker geometry
zetecs ect have fuel injection ect to wire up and worry about
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gahgah
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| posted on 20/1/07 at 12:36 PM |
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this 1600 crossflow you write of - comes from what car?
how do I get a picture into the post?
I found a great sierra in the local village scrap yard. The man said he could not sell me the whole car, but I could buy the whole car a bit at a
time!!!
How can I get around this problem(cheaply)?
Thanks for all the info - I'm learning very quickly.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 20/1/07 at 01:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by 24vseven
pintos are old and heavy cost a fortune to tune
Old and heavy, yes. Fortune to tune? I disagree. They cost no more than a crossflow to tune, and of course it all depends on how far you want to go.
To get a solid 120-130bhp Pinto should not be very expensive, but to get it up to a genuine 150bhp you need to start spending a lot more money, but
that's the same as every engine. You could spend £10,000 on a crossflow to get a competitive engine in some classes.
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gahgah
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| posted on 20/1/07 at 02:53 PM |
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I have found a Sierra XR4 with 2.8l engine -will this be suitable-any info on this engine much appreciated. Many thanks.
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mcerd1
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| posted on 20/1/07 at 03:44 PM |
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gahgah,
see here for info on X-Flows (crossflows):
https://www.burtonpower.com/technical/tt_kent.html
for the 2.8 (&2.9) ford V6's see here:
https://www.burtonpower.com/technical/tt_taunus.html
If the 2.8 sierra is a 2wd (ie. XR4 not XR4x4) then it should have everything you'd need but the engine its self may not be the best - they are
big and heavy and harder to tune than the Pinto (SOHC) of X-flow
If I were looking for an easy engine to start with (both in tearms off making it go and getting an easy emissions test at the SVA and MOT's)
I'd go for an X-flow or a Pinto (like I did ) - then either tune that engine or swap for a more modern one such as the Vauxhall XE, Zetec and
so on
see here for zetecs:
https://www.burtonpower.com/technical/tt_zetec.html
or sticking with older engines - swap it for a Cosworth turbo (same block as the Pinto) or a V8 (such as Rover 3.9, Ford 302, Chevy LS1, LS6 or
LS7)
Obviously if you were going to put a V8 in you'd need to allow for that from the begining
see here for cossies:
https://www.burtonpower.com/technical/tt_cosworth.html
but thats just me
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24vseven
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| posted on 20/1/07 at 09:31 PM |
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yes i agree with mikerj pintos are cheep power to a point
and any engine cost a fortune rof decent power i just feel crossflows are a light simple engine
as regareds getting hold of one they were fitted to many fords but the best one is from a mk1 or 2 escort they do turn up on ebay as do the tuning
parts or if you need them i do have a couple one complete with 40's hp oil pump steel rocker posts ect not sure of the rest of the spec till i
look further on monday but it was removed from a rally car so anythings possible
my view on crossfolws isint biased as i have pintos hanging about to but there easier to find
as for the v6 ford lump what can i say i am useng the same basic engine in mine tho its the cossy version but theres 150-160 bhp there in an 4i lump
not to hard to wire up either
[Edited on 20/1/07 by 24vseven]
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gahgah
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| posted on 21/1/07 at 11:09 AM |
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24vseven and mcerd1, many, many thanks for your comments. You make me feel like a total ignoramus. I am learning as fast as I can. How did you
aquire so much knowledge?
In the end I think it will all depend on what car I can find. It seems very difficult to find anything suitable. It is very time consuming and I am
impatient to get going.
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mcerd1
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| posted on 21/1/07 at 12:09 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by gahgah
It seems very difficult to find anything suitable. It is very time consuming and I am impatient to get going.
The majority of all ford sierra's and granada's would have the bits you'd need - as would the older rwd escorts and cortia's -
and you can do a certain amount of mix and match with these
I t all comes down to what you want to build - I made the mistake of jumping in and buing a donor before I really new exactly what I wanted to build -
and to get what I want I've ended up with 3 donor cars (or 1 donor + some others to get a few choice higher spec parts from)
Are you looking to build your own chassis (book chassis or other) or are you thinking of buing a kit ? (as this could have an effect on which is the
best donor car for you)
As for how I picked up this stuff, I started off in a similar position to yourself (about 3 or 4 years ago) and gradualy picked up things - the Burton
website/ cataloge is a very good place to start for the ford bits (loads of info in there) - and once you've read it you'll have some more
questions (and so on)
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24vseven
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| posted on 21/1/07 at 02:54 PM |
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fully agree with mercd your choice has to depend on what you want not what peole tell you you should have
fords are a good start though as most parts can be interchanged
as for the knowledge its just diving in getting on with things and not being afraid to ask if your not sure
you will soon be up to speed
good luck
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flak monkey
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| posted on 21/1/07 at 03:04 PM |
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GahGah,
I started off in a similar position to you, and while I am one of the younger members I have spent much of my years messing around with cars and
anything mechanical. I researched my build for around 18months before making a proper start, and I think it has paid off. I decided what I wanted and
have pretty much stuck to the original plan.
I went for the pinto engine as I wanted a budget car (I am after all still a student!). I picked up a low mileage 2 litre 205block engine for £30 with
a lightened flywheel, and it had been stripped and was still in pieces. I could have simply put it back togther and dropped it in but decided to do
some work on it. I fitted all new bearings and rings, carried out some mild porting on the head, fitted a fast road cam and a few other small mods the
bolted a pair of 40DCOEs to the side. All in all the engine has cost me around £500 including the carbs and electronic ignition and all the new parts
I fitted (probably could have got away without some of them!).
I chose the pinto mainly based on cost, but also on reliability and ease of fitting. There is basically no electronics on the engine, which suits me
Like others have said it really depends what you want as to what engine you fit. If I had a little more cash i would have gone for a duratec
installation, and is a possibility for a future upgrade.
There is quite a bit of info relating to my build on my website.
David
PS I notice you are in peterborough. There are a few of us on here around that area, I am in Lynn, and you are welcome to come and have a nosey at my
car when I am at home.
[Edited on 21/1/07 by flak monkey]
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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gahgah
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| posted on 21/1/07 at 06:49 PM |
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Flaky Monkey
Saw your web site, very impressed, best of luck with your studies. May well take up your generous offer once I've got myself in a pickle.
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gahgah
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| posted on 21/1/07 at 06:51 PM |
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Flak Monkey
Sorry got your name wrong. How do you get a sexy pic like yours on the post?
Gahgah
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flak monkey
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| posted on 21/1/07 at 06:55 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by gahgah
Flak Monkey
Sorry got your name wrong. How do you get a sexy pic like yours on the post?
Gahgah
Upload your photo to your photo archive on here. right click on it, select properties then copy the image url. Go to your control panel o this site
and paste the url into the avatar url box.
Make sure the image isnt more than 200ish pixels wide though otherwise lots of people will complain
Thanks for the kind comments about the site etc. I will be at home again from the middle of march, so you have a while to get in a muddle
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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