bimbleuk
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| posted on 21/1/06 at 07:48 PM |
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4AGE shortened sump ...
Apologies for my total lack of engineering skills as I had Mel at RAW fabricate this sump to my design....
The aim was to produce a 1" shortened sump for the 4AGE 16V or 20V engines with minimal mods to the proven factory design. There is 1 litre extra
oil capacity.
I've retained the factory horizontal baffle plate but added a return lip around the hole to help contain the oil in the bottom. Ideally the plate
should be higher but that would incur extra cost (there is also a factory oil scraper plate which sits higher up).
The original sump sides are still inside the side "cheeks" now acting as vertical baffles with holes (could be gated) to allow oil flow.
Image deleted by owner
 
Shortened sump
 
Baffled sump
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Flat Pack
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| posted on 21/1/06 at 08:09 PM |
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Looks neat 
I was talking to Mel the other week about shortened sumps and he said he was making one up to a customer's design that he liked a lot and
thought was much better than their normal cut and shut job. Guess this is it 
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Chazzy
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| posted on 21/1/06 at 10:00 PM |
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looks very nice! I have a normal 4age sump on my ST (Raw) locost. haven't hit anything with it yet..... the only part that does scrape is the
bottom of the bellhousing on short speed humps. I don't straddle speed cushions though!!
Could i as what Mel chrged you?? (could U2U??)
cheers
chas
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bimbleuk
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| posted on 21/1/06 at 10:17 PM |
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Yep thats the one. I thought it turned out pretty neat. I was thinking of a simple cheap solution for Mel as well at the same time.
I've currently got a BPJ cast alloy sump and IMHO its over engineered, too heavy
and unfortunately I've had a some leaking issues since fitting it.
Mel has produced a sheet alloy version of the BPJ design but the cost is still way too much for most of us. The steel version he also had made
previously was in between but again I thought it a little too heavy and complicated.
The figure at the mo for one will be around £150+VAT as it takes most of a day to do the fabrication. Based that one he may get some laser pieces cut
in batches and welded up to possibly reduce the cost.
[Edited on 21/1/06 by bimbleuk]
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DEAN C.
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| posted on 22/1/06 at 01:03 AM |
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Hi,what stops the bulk of the oil running away from the pick up pipe?
I'm wondering how high and efficient these baffles are in the bottom.
1 litre extra oil is no good if it is in the corner of the sump.
I have ended up copying the Aussies and slicing 1" out from below the horizontal baffle.
Some of you may know that I have already run one botton end dry on Elvingtons hairpin due to copying Mels earlier design(I made this,not Raw).
Mels a really genuine guy by the way but I'm very sceptical of most of the so called race proven sumps,yours definately needs gates or you will
need a new crank after three or four of seconds on a fast hairpin.
Please take this as a constructive critiscism,but if did not build something to contain the oil near the pick up I would worry about it.
By the way,I am a engineer /mechanic by trade and now manage two transport contracts,so I examine plenty of ruined engines to determine what is at
fault.
It would not take much more effort now to fit some gated baffles as you have said,I think you need them.
And yes it does look a nice sump!
Regards ,Dean.
[Edited on 22/1/06 by DEAN C.]
[Edited on 22/1/06 by DEAN C.]
Once I've finished a project why do I start another?
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mranlet
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| posted on 22/1/06 at 10:26 AM |
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Will you have to modify the pickup tube at all?
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bimbleuk
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| posted on 22/1/06 at 05:28 PM |
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Thanks Dean thats the sort of useful feedback needed.
Yep the pickup will need to be shortened a little.
Having looked at the BPJ sump which is compartmentlised and gated. There isn't actually anything stopping the oil just shooting straight up and
out of the vertical baffles. So I concentrated on retaining a volume below the horizontal plate.
The baffles in the the sides are top to bottom so effectively creating tanks either side. The oil will flow directly at the pickup via a hole, as it
leaves the side "cheek". Obviously the G forces are dynamic and don't just go left/right and front/back.
As you say Dean the side holes below the horizontal plate could be gated and that will probably be implemented in future sumps.
For now I'm going with this one with the addition of an Accusump and big bright LED oil warning light!!
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DEAN C.
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| posted on 22/1/06 at 07:46 PM |
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Hi,I'm interested in seeing if the accusump works ok as I thought about one of these myself.
As for the L.e.d. if I was on a trackday or racing you could poke me in the eye with it and I would not notice.
We used to use a mini rear tail light on our dash for the oil light in the Landy V8 racer, and two of us used to miss it.
Stick it as near to the rev couter as possible because thats the only thing you'll look at.
Your baffles if they run to the top might be ok.
I learnt the hard way and I dont profess to know much about sump design,so if anyone comes up with any other ideas I shall be interested too.
Regards,Dean.......
Once I've finished a project why do I start another?
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bimbleuk
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| posted on 23/1/06 at 12:30 PM |
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I had a look at a few designs and read a couple of "Corky" Bell books and decided the horizontal baffle was more important. I'm no
guru either but I'll have a go anyway.
Actually Mels demonstrator with a 20V has always used a factory sump with an Accusump as a backup. After many trackdays in the hands of journos and
the public its still going well.
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