oliwb
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| posted on 1/12/05 at 07:00 PM |
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Bike engines
Started thinking long term about engine changes in the next year or so....was wondering if anyone could break down into some sort of list the parts
required to fit a bike engine in place of a pinto and their rough costs.....obviously these will change but exclude the engine from the list just now
and assume that the engine is running eg got injection kit or what ever.....etc etc.....Cheers Oli.
Vauxhall or Bike???? hmmm.....
Oh and which bike engines are the daddies to go for.....
If your not living life on the edge you're taking up too much room!
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yorkshire-engines
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| posted on 1/12/05 at 07:43 PM |
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hi fitting bike engine in place of car lump is easy i did one in 2 days a few years ago
the best engine in my books is gsxr 1000
as i race these as well
busa is good but a lot heavier zx10 is another good motor
but its down to you
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oliwb
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| posted on 1/12/05 at 08:22 PM |
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What sort of horse power do these put out? I heard a hyabusa engine put out around 180 bhp in standard trim. Does changing the engine effect the
handling much? presumably the weight change would effect a 50/50 balance? Or does it just make everything better?? Also heard that 10,000 miles on a
motorbike engine is the equivalent to 100,000 on a car, is that true or are they all fairly robust now? Last question what would a motor bike engine
be like to live with on a daily basis (or at least more often than the sunny sunday run or track days.....Cheers Oli.
If your not living life on the edge you're taking up too much room!
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 2/12/05 at 08:09 AM |
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Hi mate
bike engines ae just as reliable as any car engine respectively etc
whoever told you about that 10,000 mile thing is speaking armchair expert crap!
fireblade 130bhp
r1 150-170bhp later engines fuel injection
youll get a fireblade engine and kit for around 600-750 quid
r1 will cost about 300-600 pound more
there is other options but they are tried tested and loved
then youve got zx12r which will work out dearer and then youve got hayabusa..
hayabusa will cost about 3000 then a further ££K to dry sump it
the first two engines dont need dry sumping..
Bike engines are very revy
you cant get a car that sounds as goos as a bike
your power to weight will be about 350-400bhp per ton
your car will do almost 60mph in first gear hence why late three seconds early 4's can be achieved with most of the engines..
The haybusa comes into a league of its own after 70mph
handling will be better your car will weigh a lot less also
youd need a very expensive car engine to compete with a bike engine
think the replacement cost of a tuned car engine'
think the replacements cost of a bike engine..
if you want comfort and cruising speeds then perhaps not the thing.. but if you want to be in a ballistic missile that will destroy everything in its
path then
hth
chris
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progers
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| posted on 2/12/05 at 09:19 AM |
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If you opt for a GSXR1000 don't forget to budget for a dry sump kit too if you want to go on a track with sticky tyres. Same applies to ZX12r,
Blackbird and Busa.
Blades, ZX9r's and R1's seem to be able to run a wet sump no problem, they just need a decent baffle plate.
Cheers
Paul
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02GF74
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| posted on 2/12/05 at 09:20 AM |
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ah yes, but show me the reverse gear 
regarding longevity; I'm not convinced a bike engine will do the same number of miles as a car engine, both being in standard form. Surely the
higher state of tune(?) and higher revving take its toll much sooner?
Show me where the R1, ZX10, GSXR 10000 with 80 K miles on the clock without a rebuild are?
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progers
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| posted on 2/12/05 at 09:30 AM |
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For standard tune engines you are probably right but show me a highly tuned K-series/X-flow/pinto etc that doesn't need a rebuild on a regular
basis! That will be far more costly than just spending £500-1000 and bunging in a nearly new bike engine in whenever necessary.
Don't forget £ for £ these bike engines give you the best value performance money can buy. a 130bhp blade engine will more than happily
outperform a 160bhp car engined 7 on any track, and for most engines getting that 160bhp will be expensive...
To me its more a question of what you want to do with the car, tour around the country keeping to the speed limit - go car engine. Fast thrashes mixed
in with trackdays, BEC wins hands down every time.
P.S. show me a kit car that has done 80k miles without being rebuilt at least twice....
- Paul
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 2/12/05 at 09:45 AM |
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reverse
get out and push
I know off a few people who have mentioned having there BEC for a couple of years and only getting caught twice
also lets all be realistic here how long in kit car would it take to go from lets say 10,000 to 80,000
you would have long sold the car
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02GF74
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| posted on 2/12/05 at 10:00 AM |
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I know it sounds like I am dissing BEC but I don;t mean to bel just putting arguments, hopefully right, for the CEC.
It boils down as someone has said what you inted to do with it and how much you drive.
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 2/12/05 at 10:07 AM |
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I dont think any of our points have been wrong.
basically Both engine types wont cause reliability issues hopefully.
one doesnt have a reverse but you can fit one(probably not worth it)
Bike sounds better and most go better!
car engines have more torque for lazy pulling speeds
HTH
chris
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zzrpowerd-locost
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| posted on 2/12/05 at 10:15 AM |
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My ZZR1100 engine package is on ebay at the moment!
Buy it Now £450
Currently have a £400 offer on it
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4594630162&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
Go on! You know you want to!
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smart51
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| posted on 2/12/05 at 10:31 AM |
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You can buy reverse boxes for BECs. £700 odd pounds is a bit pricey concidering that's what my engine cost including wiring etc. I don't
miss it at all when driving. It's just putting it back into the garage that is a bit tricky.
going forwards well more than makes up for not going backwards.
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froggy
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| posted on 2/12/05 at 10:46 AM |
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the only thing worrying me about my engine is the gearbox,is gearbox failure common? it just seems a lot of strain to do fulll power launches with a
bike engine in a car as you would be definitely on your arse if you gave it a fistfull on a bike and dumped the clutch and clutch mods are a common
mod on bec,s. my tl motor hasnt got the strongest box to start with
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02GF74
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| posted on 2/12/05 at 11:02 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by froggy
the only thing worrying me about my engine is the gearbox,is gearbox failure common? it just seems a lot of strain to do fulll power launches with a
bike engine in a car as you would be definitely on your arse if you gave it a fistfull on a bike and dumped the clutch and clutch mods are a common
mod on bec,s. my tl motor hasnt got the strongest box to start with
don;' worry about it just be sensible. you can break anything if you try hard enough.
as for ending up on your arse, I can achieve that on my mountain bike and my legs can produce more than 1 hp! although I did manage to break an XT
cassette by doing just that!
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oliwb
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| posted on 2/12/05 at 12:10 PM |
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So I'm gathering that their cheaper, as reliable, not as good for high speed cruising, better handling, faster round tracks (and highland
b-roads  ) Hmm, think I might just have to put one in sometime!! What kind of mpg do you guys get on a run with them though?? My only other car
is an old landrover and to be honest I'm planning on using the 7 as the main car....I know, I know....Cheers Oli.
If your not living life on the edge you're taking up too much room!
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oliwb
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| posted on 2/12/05 at 12:14 PM |
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Oh, what about two bike engines?? Anyone done it in a Cat before??? Or maybe a turbo'd busa engine like in the Z-Cars ultima lots of £££ But
almost 1000 bhp per ton??....sounds nice Oli.
 
Rescued attachment ultima3.jpg
If your not living life on the edge you're taking up too much room!
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 2/12/05 at 12:23 PM |
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The twin engine route is VERY expensive, by the time you've sorted a reliable transfer box and beefed everything up to cope with the power,
you're probably looking at a minimum of £5k spend not including engines. A mate of mine converted his Westie and another chap on the Yahoo BEC
list has one of the Tigers and although quick, they seemed to spend more time off the road than on
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Hellfire
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| posted on 2/12/05 at 12:47 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by progers
If you opt for a GSXR1000 don't forget to budget for a dry sump kit too if you want to go on a track with sticky tyres. Same applies to ZX12r,
Blackbird and Busa.
Blades, ZX9r's and R1's seem to be able to run a wet sump no problem, they just need a decent baffle plate.
Cheers
Paul
ZX12R engine with baffled wet sump and sticky tyres - 7 trackdays, 3 drag racing events and about 3,000 miles of road use. Still going
strong...........
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progers
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| posted on 2/12/05 at 02:04 PM |
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Interesting, got any details on what tracks you have been on and what tyres you are using? Some tracks e.g. concrete airfields you may get away with
it as the surface doesn't generate too much grip. If you have been round mallory at full pelt I'll be impressed!
To some extent all engines suffer from surge its just a case of knowing where the limit is before they go bang! Certainly all the racers I know dry
sump their 12's, especially if they are in the typical front engined orientation.
- Paul
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andrew.carwithen
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| posted on 2/12/05 at 04:31 PM |
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Oli,
One problem you'll have in putting a bike engine in your Cat, is that it is significantly bigger and heavier than the likes of the Avon, MK
Indy, MNR Vortx etc.
I would therefore think you'd have to opt for the bigger more powerful lumps to gain the advantages of a bike engine. Problem is, with the likes
of the 'busa and, I believe the ZX12, is that they need dry sumping to prevent oil surge.
Hence the price may be prohibitive enough to make it uneconomically viable. (region of £4000 plus for the 'busa and dry-sumping!)
The v.much cheaper Yam R1 may just be powerful enough at approx. 150bhp (and no need for a dry sump!) or perhaps the likes of the slightly lazier,
torquier zzr1100.
I would've thought the 'blade will be just a little too under-powered in terms of its torque output for the Cat.
'Course, you could always sell the Cat and get a smaller, lighter model!
Andy.
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zzrpowerd-locost
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| posted on 2/12/05 at 04:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by andrew.carwithen
blah..blah..or perhaps the likes of the slightly lazier, torquier zzr1100..
Mines for sale, full engine package
Current offer on ebay £400
Anything over that its yours! 
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 2/12/05 at 06:15 PM |
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How heavy is Tiger Cat? If its significantly more than the average Locaterfield Id suggest a car engine would be more suitable, you wouldnt want it to
end up much above 500kgs otherwise you're not going to get the performance benefits and the clutch etc is going to struggle.
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scotty g
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| posted on 2/12/05 at 06:34 PM |
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Tiger Cat is heavier than locosts as it retains quite a lot of the donor Sierra bits like the semi trailing arms etc etc.
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 2/12/05 at 06:41 PM |
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Yep I thought it did, just didnt know how much heavier it is than say a B6 or a book Locost?
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andrew.carwithen
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| posted on 2/12/05 at 06:47 PM |
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It is also significantly longer (I'd say at least 12" ) than an Avon, for example, due to retaining the whole of the Sierra rear end.
I think, though I may be wrong, that a Pinto powered cat weighs in the region of 650kg! so, with a bike engine it's still gonna weigh some 550kg
or more!
[Edited on 2/12/05 by andrew.carwithen]
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