philgregson
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| posted on 11/2/03 at 02:27 PM |
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Cologne 2.8 V6
Rightyho chaps - I throw myself before the forum again.
I have a V6 cologne with the bosch K-tronic (or what ever it is) injection. I am going to use it in my locost whatever you lot say so diferent engine
options are not answers I am looking for.
I hadn't studied it closely before 'cos although knowing it is a bit on the tall side, other people are fitting them so It can be done.
However on closer investigation it is going to need the mother of all bonnet bulges as it stands so:
1) what are you other V6 chaps doing?
2) Would a carb reduce the height and how would it affect performance.
3) the risers from the manifold to the plenum are very long - I know that riser length probably matters, as does plenum volume, but as it has crappy
siameased ports anyway is it as important - My plan might be to shorten the risers (build up weld and open them up at the same time) and make a new
plenum chamber that sits lower between the rocker covers with the throttle body moved to the front of the engine - is this a crap idea?
4) why does the plenum slope to the front of the engine?
5)Any other sugestions - I repeat I am using this engine whatever you say!
yours in anticipation of a good argument or two,
Phil.
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Metal Hippy™
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| posted on 11/2/03 at 02:44 PM |
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dUNNO ABOUT THE REST, BUT THE SLOPE OF THE PLENUM IS POSSIBLY DOWN TO THE FACT MOST RWD ENGINES ARE SLOPING FRONT TO BACK TO SEND THE DRIVE IN THE
RIGHT DIRECTION AS FAR AS i KNOW....
fRIGGIN' cAPS lOCK.
President of the Non-conformist Locost Builders Club. E-mail for details...
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philgregson
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| posted on 11/2/03 at 07:22 PM |
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You're right about the plenum - checked in the our sierra.
Been investigating the other stuff as well:
Apparently messing with the risers will, as suspected, jive with my torque curve. Although I'm still not sure how critical this is as the slope on
the plenum means that they are diferent lengths anyway.
A carb with a pancake filter will be much lower and also the protusion will be over a much smaller area. Using a carb will also get rid of a lut of
under-bonnet gubbins. On the downside BHP would drop to just over that of an EFi Pinto at a smidge over 130 and torque would drop to about 145.
Other thoughts still much appreciated.
Cheers
Phil
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Viper
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| posted on 11/2/03 at 09:19 PM |
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If i was to use a cologne i would try to find a pair of heads off of a 2.8 mustang (non siamese) and go with a low rise offenhouser manifold and a
holley, the manifold and carb will work with the standard heads though the mustang heads will give you a jump in power, but if you have the money to
spend you can get 285bhp out of the 2.8 with the siamese heads and K-Jetronik injection...
but that is silly money.
Best of luck with your choice ( i like the 2.8i)..
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Liam
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| posted on 12/2/03 at 12:09 AM |
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The guy at http://www.wurlyvalve.i12.com/ is using a 2.8 and has fitted a slightly lower 2.9 plenum (and 2.9 EFI, I think, and a load of
other tuning bits). He also has a mother of a bonnet bulge too!
Liam
[Edited on 12/2/03 by Liam]
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philgregson
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| posted on 12/2/03 at 02:48 PM |
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Just another quick Q on this subject:
I obviously need a wiring diagram and a 'plumbing' diagram to put the damn thing back together again if I am to use the injection (which I probably
am). I am going to pick up a sierra V6 Haynes manual from ebay - Is this detailed enough opr is there a better source of information?
Phil.
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 12/2/03 at 10:30 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by philgregson
Just another quick Q on this subject:
I obviously need a wiring diagram and a 'plumbing' diagram to put the damn thing back together again if I am to use the injection (which I probably
am). I am going to pick up a sierra V6 Haynes manual from ebay - Is this detailed enough opr is there a better source of information?
Phil.
I used the granada haynes manual and it was a peice of p&ss.
Mine is a 2.4 cologne and the diagram is for a 2.8 but it was 98% correct.
when you stripped from the donor you will find that the efi loom comes away from the main loom. there is a connector with a few wires to it that go to
things like power, the fuel pump stuff, ign coil, etc. its not too bad to work out.
all the wires to the air meters and temp sensors etc are simple if you labelled em up before....which of course you did.....
Mine started first time - im an electronics person, but it didnt need that much effort.
if you search the internet for ford EECVI (or whatever the controller name is) you can get quite a lot of techie info - but it might be overkill.
thry the haynes - it worked for me
atb
steve
[Edited on 12/2/03 by stephen_gusterson]
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 12/2/03 at 10:40 PM |
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When I was looking for upgrades for my jag v12, there was a company that made intake mods to tune the plegnum tracts that gave summat like 13% more
torque. Shortening them will have some kinda effect.
the piccy below is of my V6 cologne 2.4 - smaller brother of the 2.9 that does not have siamesed outlets. I dont know if it will fit your head, or be
of any use, but its flat and had the air intakes at the front not the back.
for what its worth.......
 
Rescued attachment p1.jpg
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 13/2/03 at 12:01 AM |
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why is all your wiring yellow?
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
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robinbastd
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| posted on 13/2/03 at 12:09 AM |
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It is spaghetti, the result of an al fresco dining accident
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Viper
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| posted on 13/2/03 at 12:16 AM |
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when you stripped from the donor you will find that the efi loom comes away from the main loom. there is a connector with a few wires to it that go to
things like power, the fuel pump stuff, ign coil, etc. its not too bad to work out.
The Bosch K-Jetronik system is not electronic it is a manuel system, so if the 2.4 is efi then its not K-Jetronik and phil did say he was using this
system, i assume from he capri..
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philgregson
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| posted on 13/2/03 at 09:20 AM |
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Most definately K-Jetronic.
It's from an XR4i or XR4x4 I think. It was not removed by me unfortunately and the previous owner carfully marked all the relavent bits of the loom
with labels written on masking tape - all of which have since faded to incoherence.
I decided that as long as I have the correct plugs and sockets for the electronic ignition I would probably make a new loom as there is not a lot to
the engine side - hence the need for a wiring diagram.
To be honest it's all thge plumbing that worries me more although all the bits are there (I think) they are not all conected.
As regards the risers to the plenum - they can't all be at the optimuim length as they vary with the slope of the plenum but I don't know which is
optimum so I'll probably leave be. I have read however that power gains of upto 15% can be had by opening them out as in current form they are a
major restriction to airflow. This does however reqire building up the outside with weld first - If I can find some info on what profiles or shape
these are done to I might give this a go.
Comming back to the height issue I've decided that I'm just going to install it as compactly as I can and put in a bulge to deal with what is left
sticking out. I'm probably going to drop the engine half an inch to 1.5 inches below the bottom rail and may raise the scuttle an inch as well just
to try and reduce the impact of any bulge.
Any further thoughts on the V6 and it's instalation still appreciated though beacuse I would like to get it right.
Cheers for info so far,
Phil.
Phil.
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ewanspence
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| posted on 13/2/03 at 04:50 PM |
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I raised the bonnet line by nearly 2 inches to help reduce the efect of the buldge. Only way to lower it is using the 2.9 plenum but I don't think is
brings it down by much.
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 13/2/03 at 11:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by theconrodkid
why is all your wiring yellow?
Because its not orange. 
I work in at a company that makes electronic equipment.
Its not easy to find a loada different colours to wire industrial machinery. You often find that cables are mostly one colour (except for power feeds)
and are identified with plastic numbered cabke markers on the ends. The colour does not matter as long as you have a unique number on the end.
When I was on a C130 herculese last easter, all the wiring I could see was white. I have also seen military stuff with all pink wire.
If its good enuf for Lockheed its good enuf for me!
atb
steve
[Edited on 13/2/03 by stephen_gusterson]
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 13/2/03 at 11:08 PM |
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quote:
The Bosch K-Jetronik system is not electronic it is a manuel system, so if the 2.4 is efi then its not K-Jetronik and phil did say he was using this
system, i assume from he capri..
Then surely the wiring has got to be even easier!!!!
atb
steve
btw -
are the tract lengths in the head all the same length - or is the sloped plegnum 'adjusting' for the fact they are not?
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philgregson
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| posted on 14/2/03 at 09:16 AM |
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Good question about the tract lengths.
I'm pretty sure that the sloping plenum is to do with the sloped engine instalation as Metal hippy said. However there might be a variation in tract
lengths to compensate for the riser length diferences - I don't know.
I havn't had the head off yet but will do 'cos I also want to see exactly how the ports are siameased.
Phil.
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