Cluelesstom
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| posted on 26/5/18 at 08:01 PM |
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Poor performance 2.0 pinto - timed incorrectly.
Hello guys as the title says really struggling to get this engine to run nicely, timing seems to be all over the place, I’m attaching some photos of
where I’m currently at, I’ve set the crank to tdc and the cam as close as possible, set the distributor so it points at its mark, I tried starting it
like this and it was having none of it, finally got it going at retarding it quite abit, as you can see through the dizzy cap, if I rotate the dizzy
towards 1 it stalls, engine is flat as ever and it firing backup the carb, it’s running a 38 Weber, ported head, large valves, fast road cam and
electronic dizzy, also anyone if the tube running from a black tube with a little cylinder on the line with dist and carb written on each end, is this
the vacuum advance as this was disconnected, here are some photos,
https://postimg.cc/gallery/3hkb21l8o/
Thanks!
Tom
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gremlin1234
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| posted on 26/5/18 at 09:29 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Cluelesstom also anyone if the tube running from a black tube with a little cylinder on the line with dist and carb
written on each end, is this the vacuum advance as this was disconnected,
yes thats the vacuum advance
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adithorp
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| posted on 27/5/18 at 07:32 AM |
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Are you sure the vernier pulley on the cam is
in the correct position. You'll need to get the cam to overlap on No1 (clock gauge).
Once you'te sure that is correct fit/time the belt as you have described and then you will have to adjust the ignition timing (strobe light).
Aligning the distributor arm to the mark is only a (very) rough guide.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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Cluelesstom
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| posted on 27/5/18 at 08:14 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
You'll need to get the cam to overlap on No1 (clock gauge).
Hello, thanks for the reply, not sure if the cam is fitted correctly to be honest, with the clock gauge do you mean to take
The rocker cover off and then find my tdc? Would I be right in thinking that the pulley on the cam is keyed to the shaft or can you
Attach it where you want?
Thanks
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mcerd1
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| posted on 27/5/18 at 08:18 AM |
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^^^ what adithorp said
all the pulley's are key'd on a pinto
but also the TDC mark on the crank pulley isn't really good enough if your going to start messing about with a vernier pulley...
you need one of these: (often come with the camshafts)
http://www.burtonpower.com/timing-disc-degree-wheel-7-dia-td1.html
and something like welding wire to make a pointer (i.e. tig / gas type welding wire thats fairly stiff and stay exactly were you bent it to)
and a Dial gauge (Dial Test Indicator) with a magnetic stand - like this cheap and cheerful one: (can't vouch for its quality, there are plenty
alternatives available)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/indicator-gauge-magnetic-stand-TE107TE108/dp/B01HR4E1A6/ref=sr_1_11?rps=1&ie=UTF8&qid=1527408753&sr=8-11&keyw
ords=magnetic+dti+stand&refinements=p_76%3A419159031
and to make finding true TDC easy without removing the head you can make a piston stop like this one I made from an old spark plug:
 
Piston Stop 1
 
Piston Stop 2
All I did was hollow it out and tap a thread down the middle - I turned up the rod on the lathe only because I couldn't find an old bolt the
right size - and the nut is just a locknut to hold it solid
-once you've got the timing wheel and pointer mounted its just a case of turning over the engine very slowly by hand until the piston hits the
stop - mark this position on the timing wheel (it'll be somewhere just before TDC)
-then turn the engine backwards until it hits from the other side and mark that position too.
-True TDC is now exactly halfway between these 2 marks - so remove the stop and turn it till the pointer is at this half way point (so now the bottom
end is at true TDC, but the pointer might not say TDC yet)
-then without moving the crank adjust the pointer until it shows TDC (aka 0° )
next is what kind of cam have you got ? it should have specific timing figures to help get it very close to its optimum timing (although the perfect
timing could still be a couple of degrees off this, but you need a dyno for that  )
then your ready to get the cam properly timed 
you could do worse than following this guide: http://www.burtonpower.com/tuning-guides/tuning-guide-pages/camshaft-fitting-timing.html
I'd be less worried about the dizzy - if its close enough then it'll start, then you can adjust it till its right - but if the cam's
off......
[Edited on 27/5/2018 by mcerd1]
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Cluelesstom
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| posted on 27/5/18 at 09:13 AM |
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Brilliant thank you, I’ve purchase the two items and will set on making a stop now
What’s the process of finding tdc on the cam with the gauge?
Also Does the vacuum advance need to be in as it was disconnected when I bought the car.
Thanks again.
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mcerd1
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| posted on 27/5/18 at 11:02 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Cluelesstom
Brilliant thank you, I’ve purchase the two items and will set on making a stop now
What’s the process of finding tdc on the cam with the gauge?
Also Does the vacuum advance need to be in as it was disconnected when I bought the car.
Thanks again.
The cam doesn't have a TDC as such - it will have figures quoted by the manufacturer as full lift at X° or Xmm lift at TDC etc...
and the vernier pulley is there to fine tune it to make sure you can get that adjustment (the stock pulley would only be able to do whole teeth on the
belt which is far too crude)
this guide is on a V8, but if gives you idea:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_9rUXYxAY0
same rules apply, set it up on No #1 cylinder - but the vernier pulley is actually a bit easier to adjust than that
vacuum advance should always be disconnected when setting the dizzy timing at idle - if you don't disconnect it you'll never get the dizzy
timing right
but needs to be connected once your done so that it can sense the engine load (if you don't connect it you'll loose a lot of fuel economy
and some performance / response too)
[Edited on 27/5/2018 by mcerd1]
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mcerd1
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| posted on 27/5/18 at 12:40 PM |
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Also I should add a note of caution - if you get the cam timing badly wrong there is a chance that you could end up with bent valves
so take your time, double and triple check everything and never make assumptions.
as for the dizzy timing the worst that can happen is the engine won't run
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mark chandler
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| posted on 27/5/18 at 01:18 PM |
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Pintosuarus is a non interference engine so you should not be able to damage the valves.
They work best with the cam advanced 5 -7 degrees.
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mcerd1
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| posted on 27/5/18 at 02:27 PM |
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^^^ Only 2.0 pinto's without significant mods are non-interference engines
I doesn't take much in the way of High lift cams, big valves, head skimming before they become an interference engine
Mine only has 2mm clear on the valves when its all timed correctly so it wouldn't take much error in the timing for it to be a very bad day 
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Cluelesstom
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| posted on 27/5/18 at 03:06 PM |
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I best be careful then, I’ve just found out it’s a Kent 32 fast road cam, wish me luck! Hopefully no bent valves
Thanks
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Cluelesstom
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| posted on 27/5/18 at 09:05 PM |
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Result! Did a compression test and found them to be quite low, took the Rocker cover off to find all of the valves to be tight,
Adjusted to the recommended, and bliney what a change, runs well but still not all the way there, a little more playing and it’ll be somewhere
close!
This engine was built by a ford guy... just goes to show.
Thanks for all your help!
[Edited on 27/5/18 by Cluelesstom]
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mcerd1
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| posted on 29/5/18 at 10:16 AM |
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^^ it always pays to check the basics first and not make any assumptions that its been done right before 
assuming you'll still get yourself a dial gauge, timing disc/wheel and a piston stop then you'll have the tools to confirm all the timing
on this and any future engines you have
also the DTI has plenty of other uses too - you can use it measure actual valve lift (if its setup exatly in line with the valve stem) and timing to
help ID an unknown cam, you can verify the timing marks on the crank pulley for your strobe later, its what you need if you want to check hubs and
brake discs for run out/warping, it lets you do fancy setup's on a lathe, and so on.....
not a tool you'll use every day, but when you can get them for less that £30 and it saves you an expensive visit to the professionals its well
worth it IMHO
[Edited on 29/5/2018 by mcerd1]
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Cluelesstom
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| posted on 29/5/18 at 06:24 PM |
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Yeah all ordered mate, will come in handy I’m sure, going to see how far I can get on my own with this engine then think about finding a pro
With a rolling road to get the most out of it, any idea of the figures I should expect from my engine specs?
Thanks
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