Ron Lang
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| posted on 20/12/16 at 12:34 PM |
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Hyabusa Throttle Bodies?
My Zero was advertised as having Hyabusa throttle bodies. Looking more closely they just look like GSXR TB's to me but I'm not all that
familiar.
Anyway, given that the car isn't finished and will need to go through IVA emissions, am I wasting my time with bike TB's? Should I just go
back to the GBS plenum chamber and single TB?
There is also a vacuum pipe attached to the bottom of each TB but attached to nothing the other end...I cant work out where this should go.
Thanks,
Ron
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r1_pete
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| posted on 20/12/16 at 01:11 PM |
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There is no reason you won't get through iva with ITBs, properly balanced and the ECU correctly mapped, many many people on here have such
configs.
The vacuum hoses can be used for 2 purposes:
1. Balancing the bodies when you have the engine running, connect a vac gauge to each one, and adjust the butterflies till they all read the same, and
you have a nice even tickover.
2. If your ecu runs a MAP sensor, connect the lines to a small chamber then on to the vacuum port on your ECU.
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Ron Lang
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| posted on 20/12/16 at 01:26 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by r1_pete
There is no reason you won't get through iva with ITBs, properly balanced and the ECU correctly mapped, many many people on here have such
configs.
Thanks for your reply. Once I have the ECU up and running I will be able to get a better feel for the TB's - I have no idea how they compare the
Jenveys we have on Zero #1.
quote:
The vacuum hoses can be used for 2 purposes:
1. Balancing the bodies when you have the engine running, connect a vac gauge to each one, and adjust the butterflies till they all read the same, and
you have a nice even tickover.
2. If your ecu runs a MAP sensor, connect the lines to a small chamber then on to the vacuum port on your ECU.
I suspect they intended to have a MAP sensor as the vacuum hose seems to deliberately link the four TB's and T' off to a long length of
unconnected hose. If purely to balance, do you just blank off this hose when not balancing?
This is the difficulty with a part-build purchase I suppose and they aren't around to ask either.
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Ron Lang
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| posted on 20/12/16 at 01:32 PM |
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Also, with limited knowledge on the subject, I was under the impression you used either a MAP sensor or a TPS (with the latter being better for bike
TB's)? It definitely has a TPS. Do people run both - whats the benefit?
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r1_pete
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| posted on 20/12/16 at 01:52 PM |
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Yes if you don't run MAP just blank them, or connect them to a vacuum gauge in the dash, I like gauges so I T'd mine to one as well as the
ecu.
I guess the use depends on ECU, I can only speak for megasquirt, I'm using both MAP & TPS, MAP for engine load sensing for fuel and
ignition, and TPS for Acceleration enrichment. You can use MAP for fuel and TPS for sparks and vice versa,, not recommended but you can, the deciding
factor is really how good a vacuum signal you get, ITBs tend to pulse, hence needing a small smoothing chamber, so many people prefer TPS. Some high
lift cams result in a very poor vacuum at tickover, so that's another factor.
What ECU are you planning on using? best thing to do is get the relevant manual, read it a few times, and you'll get a plan formulating in your
head....
ETA, those vac lines could also be used for an Idle Control Valve.
[Edited on 20/12/16 by r1_pete]
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Ron Lang
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| posted on 20/12/16 at 02:48 PM |
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I'm waiting on arrival of an Emerald. It previously had a Megasquirt installed.
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Ugg10
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| posted on 20/12/16 at 06:43 PM |
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If you are getting an emerald then it is worth investing £150 in a wide band lambda. You can then run in one of three modes -
1) open mode running on preset maps, usually used after a rolling road set up
2) closed loop where the ecu will try and match the injection duration to acheive a preset afr level as sensed by the web lambda, thus can be set to
ensure you will be OK at IVA assuming wpeverything else is working ok (no inlet or exhaust leaks, temp sensors ok etc)
3) self learning mode, like doing a rolling road session as you drive around. It runs as per 1) in open mode, logs afr and tells you what to change
the injection map to to hit the target afr levels.
Nice piece of kit.
Note you will need a cat in the exhaust if running a post 1995 engine to pass IVA emission levels.
---------------------------------------------------------------
1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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Ron Lang
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| posted on 20/12/16 at 08:29 PM |
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Thanks Ugg10. We are indeed needing a CAT although it looks like we need to change the whole exhaust so might go for an integrated unit. The wide band
lambda sensor looks like a good idea. I have been unsure for a while about the lambda sensor - total newbie question but do you only have this
installed when you're tuning - I dont remember seeing many 7's with a sensor sticking out of the exhaust.
[Edited on 20/12/16 by Ron Lang]
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SPYDER
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| posted on 20/12/16 at 08:37 PM |
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The vacuum take offs potentially have another use. Many installs have a vacuum referenced fuel pressure regulator.
The fuel pressure is then locked to changes of pressure in the manifold. It can help with injector "linearity" and will
flatten the VE table.
My car runs GSXR throttle bodies and has just such an arrangement. On mine the vacuum tubes are connected on the top of the butterflies, not
underneath.
It was until recently running on Megasquirt MS1 on Alpha-N fueling using the TPS.
Since upgrading to MS2 it now runs on ITB mode which uses the MAP sensor on the lower portion of the VE table but
changes smoothly to Alpha-N with increasing load.
The previous TPS based tune was very good but the ITB mode is noticeably better around town.
If the Emerald has such a TPS/MAP hybrid mode then I suggest that you try it out.
Or TPS with a vacuum referenced FPR.
I would also recommend fitting a larger cable quadrant. The standard ones are tiny and can make throttle modulation
difficult.
I fitted a larger quadrant and offset it to give a "rising rate" effect. The resultant change in cable angle is allowed for by the little
rose joint. Works a treat.
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Ugg10
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| posted on 20/12/16 at 08:44 PM |
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If you go for option 1 then you don't need one but you will need a rolling road set up to get the ecu right (they can use one stuffed diepwn the
exhaust although a welded in bits will be better)
If you go for 3 then you can use on for a while whilst live tuning on the road (interesting as you have to do some tricky driving to fill all data
points like driving full throttle with foot hard on the brake to get low revs high load spots) and once you are happy with the map you can then
remove.
If you go for 2 then it will be needed all the time, it works similar to an OEM system in this case.
Hope this helps.
No experience with these but cats slightly cheaper
Weld on http://www.kitspares.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=_24&product_id=256
Bolt on https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/piper-catalytic-converter-128mm-diameter-2-25-inside-diameter-sc13225s
[Edited on 20/12/16 by Ugg10]
---------------------------------------------------------------
1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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SPYDER
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| posted on 20/12/16 at 08:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ugg10
If you go for 3 then you can use on for a while whilst live tuning on the road (interesting as you have to do some tricky driving to fill all data
points like dribing full throttle with foot hard on the brake to get low revs high load spots)...
I've done a fair bit of that! I also have a long steep hill nearby which can be used to similar effect. "God's rolling road!"
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Ron Lang
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| posted on 20/12/16 at 09:36 PM |
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A lot of great info guys thanks...I need to take it all in.
Interestingly, I asked the same question of GBS and they suggested I'd be better off removing the ITB's and reverting to the factory
plenum. Not sure if the ITB's are worth anything if I did go down that route?
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Ugg10
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| posted on 20/12/16 at 09:46 PM |
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Other may be able to confirm but I think the plenum and stock throttle body will make about 150hp if mapped properly (will probably make about 145hp
on the OEM ecu), tbs should make 165-170hp. I had a 2.0l silver top on bike carbs from Chester sports cars that the new owner rolling roaded at 165hp
so with tbs you may be able to squeeze a bit more on a black top.
If you are going emerald then there is no significant cost saving with the plenum so I would go tbs as they will give better performance. if you are
going with the OEM ecu then plenum is the only way to get it to run which would be significantly cheaper.
---------------------------------------------------------------
1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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Ron Lang
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| posted on 20/12/16 at 10:18 PM |
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ITB 1
 
ITB 2
Couple of pics of the ITB's. Can anyone confirm what they are?
Hoping you can see the pressure hoses I am referring to on the underside (second pic)
[Edited on 20/12/16 by Ron Lang]
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SPYDER
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| posted on 21/12/16 at 09:24 PM |
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They're Hayabusa alright and possibly a little over-sized for your application. They'll need to be very well balanced.
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Ron Lang
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| posted on 21/12/16 at 09:58 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by SPYDER
They're Hayabusa alright and possibly a little over-sized for your application. They'll need to be very well balanced.
I think they're 45mm which is the same as the jenveys on my other car. The balancing is what I'm worried about tho.
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