Ugg10
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| posted on 5/5/14 at 09:12 AM |
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Should I be worried + Intersting Ford assembly technique
I have just taken delivery of a ford Puma 1.7 Zetec SE engine (approx 90k miles with recent cam belt change) and yesterday started removing all of the
unnecessary parts ready for my Anglia installation.
I have found a few worrying signs/observations that hopefully the geniuses that are on this forum can either put my mind to rest or scare me witless ?
(I have seen a video of the engine running OK before purchase so assumed (possibly stupidly) it was a good'en)
Observation - when removing the inlet manifold I found the inside to be a golden brown and the inlet ports were very black, I also notices that the
inlet manifold gasket was cracked and the rubber rings were badly distorted (see pictures below) and finally there was a lot of oil in the centre
gallery on the inlet. The inlet side of the engine was generally more oily than the other.
My diagnosis - the inlet manifold gasket had been over tightened, combined with a leaky rocker cover gasket on the inlet side has lead to what I am
seeing. So, replace the rocker cover gasket and I am using TBs so it should be OK (optimistically)
Any thoughts/comments etc. would be gratefully received. Many thanks in advance.
Inlet with oil
Inlet Manifold Gasket - interesting !!!
For those interested I am planning to use Triumph 955i RS Sprint throttle bodies - here are a couple of pics of a trial fit (just placed in the
correct position) and the port alignment - this is two sets of Triple TBs with one TB remove from one set and added onto the other (took two minutes
literally), they are spaced as on the bike which as you can see is pretty close and there is room to squeeze then up by about 2mm which brings then
right in line. It will just need a flat plate adaptor to make the bolts fit.
For more pictures have a look at anglia1968.weebly.com or www.flickr.com/photos/uggspics1/sets/72157643119387854/
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big_wasa
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| posted on 5/5/14 at 09:28 AM |
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The inlets on fords are often carbened up due to breathing its own oil vapour and exhaust gasses for emissions purposes.
And yep that inlet gasket is buggered. If the ecu thought it was running lean it would dump extra fuel in adding to the problem.
[Edited on 5/5/14 by big_wasa]
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Ugg10
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| posted on 5/5/14 at 09:36 AM |
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Cheers, starts to put my mind at rest, just need to give it a good clean, change the rocker gasket and see how she goes (bit more involved than that
and need to sort out a few bits on the car but heading in the right direction). Also did not help that the engine was shipped with all of the fluids
still in it including engine and gearbox oil and water as well !!!!
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beaver34
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| posted on 5/5/14 at 12:20 PM |
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i would say its more likley to have been on its side at some point and oil run into the inlet
anyway good luck with what your planning!
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Ugg10
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| posted on 5/5/14 at 05:42 PM |
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Thanks, thats definitely a possibility given that it was shipped full of fluids.
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rick1962uk
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| posted on 5/5/14 at 08:15 PM |
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i track day one and yes thats a common problem and they are not cheap to replace i now use a good sealant to be sure its sealed dont forget if you
are using the std ECU it needs to teach its self the car set up you can find the propper way to do it on puma people
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Ugg10
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| posted on 5/5/14 at 08:41 PM |
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Rick, thanks for the info but will probably not use it in the future, not sure on the ecu yet.
I have a "dive" ecu, key, lock and transponder with wiring loom so can go that way but will need to make up a plenum to attach the maf
sensor to if using my tbs, I've contacted pumaspeed about their ecu mod as an option.
Alternatively I can go emerald, omex or canems whickh will cost more but may be easier and neater in the long run.
Decisions? need to get it cleaned, mechanically sorted (will need mounts and a modded sump) before I think about electrickery.
What spec engine are you running and what do you think of it as engines go? Next job on the list is a bellhousing for a type 9, are you running this
and if so which one did you use and what clutch with it, also did you go cable or hydraulic?
Cheers
[Edited on 5/5/14 by Ugg10]
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rick1962uk
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| posted on 5/5/14 at 08:54 PM |
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i have run it almost std and its a great engine realy likes to be reved hard but later when i get the kitcar done im going to lighten the flywheel
get the cams ground to a race spec
make up a set of throttle bodes and will use a mega ecu
im sure the kit will be a faster car but i like a roof when its cold and raining
[Edited on 5/5/14 by rick1962uk]
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Ugg10
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| posted on 5/5/14 at 09:03 PM |
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Sounds like a plan.
The triumph tb's look like a really good fit and can be attached with a simple flat plate, i'll be getting one made up soon. Only problem
is having to buy two sets as they are from a three cylinder engine. Both sets cost me £75 incl p&p from ebay so not too bad plus will need no
engineering to get them to fit. For info vauxhall v6 injectors work if you don't use the puma ones (which I am). Measurements of the tbs are on
my blog in the imahes section if you need them.
Not sure what to do with the exhaust yet, in the anglia I can run full tubular or I can get a down pipe and rear box made up which is easier fornow,
no cat for me :-)
Cheers
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beaver34
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| posted on 5/5/14 at 09:25 PM |
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Have you sorted the crank and the spigot bearing issue?
If your going for bodies I would junk the vct fit a set of shawspeed ss4 cams with uprated valve springs and rod bolts from shawspeed and it will do
170bhp or there abouts at 8k all day long
Feel free to drop me a pm I've built a fair few sigma engines from standard to my 340bhp one
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Ugg10
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| posted on 5/5/14 at 09:36 PM |
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Cheers, may do, the spiggot bearing is on my to do list, probably getting the gearbox input shaft ground down, need to do a quick measure up but I
think 1mm is to thin for a phosy bronsze bearing. (17mm socket, 15mm shaft if I an correct as standard).
Had a chat to canems and they can run the ecu in either vtec on/off mode or full pcm control for the vvc, the latter will take more dyno time to set
up though I guess unless I can find the ford profile and copy as a starter.
Must admit I am not after big bhp, 140hp would be plenty in the anglia which is limited by brake size and tyre size so do not want to go too mad.
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beaver34
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| posted on 5/5/14 at 10:06 PM |
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Well I would run th stock ecu then and a set of ss4 cams, you can still get it mapped but retain the proper vct workings that will see your 140bhp
target no problem
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Ugg10
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| posted on 5/5/14 at 10:32 PM |
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How difficult is it to get running on the stock ecu, I think I have a full engine loom with ecu/key/transponder? Is there an idiots guide to wiring
this into a kit type car anywhere (the anglia currently has no wiring so going to get a kit car loom to fit in it)?
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Madinventions
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| posted on 5/5/14 at 10:50 PM |
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I'm running the 1.7 in my kit with the stock Ford ECU and you really don't need much to get it going. Strip a loom from a donor car, plug
in all the sensors, fit the PATS immobiliser and jury rig an ignition key.
 
wiring
There's a video of me starting my engine on a pallet using this simple setup (including a coffee jar as a fuel tank) here:
<YouTube link>
I'd advise getting hold of the Ford TIS DVD as well if you can. Lots of useful wiring info on there.
Ed.
Mojo build diary: http://www.madinventions.co.uk
Solo music project: Syrrenfor http://www.reverbnation.com/syrrenfor
View my band website:
http://www.shadowlight.org.uk
http://www.eastangliankitcars.co.uk/
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Jenko
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| posted on 6/5/14 at 06:24 AM |
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Gaskets look identical to the ones I removed from my 72k engine, must be an inherent design fault....also, the thermostat housing is plastic, and the
rubber seals seem to do the same thing....so worth replacing.
MY BLOG - http://westfieldv8.blogspot.co.uk/
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Ugg10
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| posted on 6/5/14 at 08:07 AM |
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Jenko, will do.
Whilst I am on - what's the usual fix for the crank breather - route it to a catch tank, put a plate over it, leave it to dangle ?
[Edited on 6/5/14 by Ugg10]
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Jenko
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| posted on 6/5/14 at 08:30 AM |
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I have a catch tank with two inlets, one from the crank breather, the other from the cam cover. Should be said, I've not tried and tested it,
but this should work fine.
MY BLOG - http://westfieldv8.blogspot.co.uk/
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Ugg10
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| posted on 6/5/14 at 09:57 AM |
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Thanks, something like this - Universal Oil Breather Catch Tank 2 litre 11/15mm fittings (UK)
Thre are cheaper single inlet - can I "Y" the two breather together on one of these ?
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Jenko
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| posted on 6/5/14 at 10:34 AM |
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Yep, thats the one.......Not sure about the y piece idea unless the single out put has increased diameter over the two inlets to ensure the correct
amount of breathing.
MY BLOG - http://westfieldv8.blogspot.co.uk/
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beaver34
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| posted on 6/5/14 at 11:39 AM |
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the engines dont breath heavy at all, not in my experience, i would get a temporary catch tank rigged up but i bet you could run back into the inlet
like stock
my n/a motors and the turbo engine i run no never push any oil out at all into the catch tank i have
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Ugg10
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| posted on 6/5/14 at 12:01 PM |
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Thanks both, will bear that in mind, I have a few other jobs to do (brakes, clean up and paint bits etc.) but think I may try and get it running out
of the car on the Ford ECU to see how it goes. Do you know if it will at least idle with no flow through the MAF (otherwise I will have to make up
quick plenum to attach this to) or gearbox sensors ? Will also have to work out how to attach the Ford TPS to the bike TBs, should not be too
difficuly hopefully (or check impedance at closed and open to see if they are compatible).
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Jenko
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| posted on 6/5/14 at 12:02 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by beaver34
the engines dont breath heavy at all, not in my experience, i would get a temporary catch tank rigged up but i bet you could run back into the inlet
like stock
my n/a motors and the turbo engine i run no never push any oil out at all into the catch tank i have
Good to know....as mentioned, mines not tried or tested as yet. I'm just parinoid as my previous car had a CVH, and that was a heavy breather!.
MY BLOG - http://westfieldv8.blogspot.co.uk/
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beaver34
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| posted on 6/5/14 at 02:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jenko
quote:
Originally posted by beaver34
the engines dont breath heavy at all, not in my experience, i would get a temporary catch tank rigged up but i bet you could run back into the inlet
like stock
my n/a motors and the turbo engine i run no never push any oil out at all into the catch tank i have
Good to know....as mentioned, mines not tried or tested as yet. I'm just parinoid as my previous car had a CVH, and that was a heavy breather!.
yeah one less worry, my turbo is dry sumped and i still run a catch tank but had no issues either way, before i just had a drinks bottle hooked up
from the pcv and head breather never got any oil in it
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Ugg10
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| posted on 7/5/14 at 12:16 PM |
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Rather than open up a new thread I have another related questions -
Using the Type 9 with the sigma needs one of the following (assuming I get the end of the input shaft reduced to 12mm and use an RWD motorsport small
spigot bearing) -
1) The splined re-manufactured to match the sigma 17 spine/20mm diam clutch hub and then use the Puma Standard clutch
2) Use a friction plate that fits with the Puma pressure case (2.0l Sierra is 215mm which is the correct diam and hub)
3) Use a frinction plate and pressure case from a 23 spline 1" hub clutch - may need the fixings re-drilled in to the flywheel
So, I guess No1 is the ideal but a PIA and could be costly.
Here's where the questions start -
For No2 has anyone used the Sierra friction plate with the Puma pressure case and does this work with the sierra relase bearing and cable clutch fork
?
For No3 does anyone know whether the pressure case for the Sierra has the same fixings to the flywheel as the Puma standard one.
Finally, can you let me know what clutch you are using if you have a Sigma/Type 9 set up and I can then work out where to go from there.
Many thanks for the help so far, much appreciated.
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beaver34
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| posted on 7/5/14 at 12:46 PM |
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i would machine the crank to suit the normal spigot bearing
you use a type 9 clutch friction plate with the standard puma cover
also dont it may be a sigma but its not the same as the 1.25 1.4 and 1.6 as they are need to mods to the crank to fit the stock spigot bearing
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