Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 28/4/13 at 02:22 PM |
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C20XE overheating problems.
I'm having real trouble with my engine cooling.
It runs up to temperature fairly normally but the polo radiators not getting hot enough to switch the fan on
The thermostat is opening as the top hose to the radiator gets very hot, the bottom hose gets hot eventually but for some reason it's not
flowing through the radiator properly.
There is flow out of the inlet manifold back to the expansion bottle. There is very little flow from the bleed at the top of the radiator back to the
bottle ?? Even tho its below the bottle and I've had the pipe off.
The temperature gauge is correct and the fan works when you short the cables.
It's had two new fan switches and a thermostat.
The engine was recently rebuilt but had this issue before. The pump was new when it was first rebuilt.
It also overheated on the rolling road with a big fan infront of it.
It's plumbed as per the sbd picture except the heater circuit is blocked off (was originally looped but still overheated)
I have an mot on Saturday and it won't get there if I can't sort this 
Pleas help someone!
Ben
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Wheels244
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| posted on 28/4/13 at 02:31 PM |
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Is the pump definitely ok Ben ?
I got boxes of bits with the car I bought off Ned, if you need anything I can have look and see if I've got it.
Rob
[Edited on 28/4/13 by Wheels244]
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 28/4/13 at 03:21 PM |
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It was new fairly recently. It pumps out of the inlet manifold bleed well. I can't see what else it could be
Ben
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 28/4/13 at 03:25 PM |
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Have you tried a lower temperature fan switch, the body should be marked with the on and the off temperature, your local motor factors should be able
to help. Is the fan switch in the rad, it may be worth fitting it into the top hose using a connector from someone like CBS. As a quick fix to get you
out of trouble try a bottle of Red Line Water Wetter, it will drop the coolant temperature by up to 20 degrees, I think various other additive
manufacturers do a similar product Radiator Relief etc. If all else fails fit a manual override switch as a temporary fix or even just bridge the
wires
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 28/4/13 at 03:57 PM |
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I've shorted the wires together to run the fan, but its not cooling the engine down The pipes all get hot, and even the radiator was hot but
with the fan running the temperature still creeps up over 100oC
I'm wonder what would happen if i remove the thermostat to help water to flow, but could have a reverse effect.
Ben
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Wheels244
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| posted on 28/4/13 at 04:02 PM |
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Is the expansion tank cap in good order ? Could it be losing pressure through the cap and allowing it to boil up ?
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 28/4/13 at 04:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Wheels244
Is the expansion tank cap in good order ? Could it be losing pressure through the cap and allowing it to boil up ?
Yeah, the pressure builds up ok.
Ben
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perksy
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| posted on 28/4/13 at 04:44 PM |
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Excuse the daft question mate but is the cooling fan running the right way around ?
Has the system bled ok ?
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 28/4/13 at 04:54 PM |
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Yes, i checked the fan today and its sucking from the front and blowing through the rad.
I've bleed it as much as possible.. I even blew into the coolant bottle to pressurise it and bubbles came up, had it running with the cap off
and the radiator bleed pipe off. Not sure theres much more i can do
[Edited on 28/4/13 by Ben_Copeland]
Ben
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 28/4/13 at 05:29 PM |
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Has it ever been losing or using water Ben?? If no the try removing the central part of the stat only. Its a fairly cheap part to replace anyways. if
not that then only other thing would be a duff pump ( but you say its new ) or a water flow problem due to a bocked radiator or blocked waterways
perhaps.Has it alweays been like this with you or was it ok at one point? Anyone chucked an egg or sealant liquid into it at any point?
engine running lean or ign out causing pinking and then hot running.
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 28/4/13 at 05:38 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by omega 24 v6
Has it ever been losing or using water Ben?? If no the try removing the central part of the stat only. Its a fairly cheap part to replace anyways. if
not that then only other thing would be a duff pump ( but you say its new ) or a water flow problem due to a bocked radiator or blocked waterways
perhaps.Has it alweays been like this with you or was it ok at one point? Anyone chucked an egg or sealant liquid into it at any point?
engine running lean or ign out causing pinking and then hot running.
No, never lost any water. The radiator is brand new. I've flushed the system out as much as possible. I've had the engine for years
stored away. Its definately not the bottom end as this is another bottom end doing the same thing.
I wish i'd changed the pump when i rebuilt it now, but it looked like new and its all metal so no plastic crap.
It was tuned on a rolling road, but it kept over heating while tuning, but they said it was pretty good tune and just need fine tuning when the
cooling was sorted.
I'm going to pull the stat out tomorrow and see if that does anything and get a water wetter.
Is the top hose supposed to get hot before the bottom rad hose???
Ben
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 28/4/13 at 05:44 PM |
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quote:
Is the top hose supposed to get hot before the bottom rad hose???
OH yes much hotter whilst running as well.
New bottom end you say?
Head gasket on the right way? Not sure if it poss to put it on the wrong way mind.
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 28/4/13 at 05:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by omega 24 v6
OH yes much hotter whilst running as well.
New bottom end you say?
Head gasket on the right way? Not sure if it poss to put it on the wrong way mind.
Ok thats good,
Head gasket is correct otherwise it wouldnt be getting oil.
Yeah, i swapped the bottom ends cos the first one died as the crank was naff.
Ben
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britishtrident
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| posted on 28/4/13 at 06:02 PM |
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Removing the thermostat is really bad for your engine.
Thermostat won't open unless you have a by-pass hose plumbed into the cooling system to allow coolant to circulate when the thermostat is
closed, on a tin top the by-pass is connected through the heater.
Basically a by-pass hose takes coolant from the cylinder head and circulates it back to the water pump inlet causing circulation that prevents hot
or cold spots forming and ensure hot coolant passes over the wax capsule of the thermostat. If you don't have a by-pass the coolant around
the cylinders can be boiling but the thermostat will remain closed because the coolant around the thermostat remains cool.
You can do a quick and dirty fix by removing the thermostat drilling a couple of holes in its' valve plate -- no more than 2 holes 2mm or
at most 2.5mm in diameter.
This will let the thermostat operate but isn't ideal because it dosen't provide proper by-pass flow.
With a proper by-pass hose the engine temperature will remain pretty constant.
[Edited on 28/4/13 by britishtrident]
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 28/4/13 at 06:08 PM |
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Its plumbed in as per this diagram
 
Description
Just without the heater circuit, the heater circuit was looped originally but it overheated. So i blocked them off, but it still overheats
[Edited on 28/4/13 by Ben_Copeland]
Ben
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avagolen
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| posted on 28/4/13 at 06:18 PM |
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Is the water pump rotating in the correct direction?
The Answer for everything, but never the last word....
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 28/4/13 at 06:24 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by avagolen
Is the water pump rotating in the correct direction?
Must be its run by the cambelt? Unless it was made incorrectly.
Ben
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avagolen
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| posted on 28/4/13 at 06:35 PM |
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OK, I remember now.
I think you have got to confirm that the water is actually being pumped
around the cooling system and especially the radiator.
I saw a utube of a guy running a rebuilt 12 cylinder engine.
He had some clear tube in the cooling system so that he could confirm water flow.
Any way you could do something similar? If you could use a short length of tube
in the top hose, insert a piece of wool in the joint so that it can be seen and you
can then see the direction and strength of flow.
fleabay do some acrylic hose in short lengths and diameters.
Just an idea....
The Answer for everything, but never the last word....
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 28/4/13 at 07:04 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by avagolen
OK, I remember now.
I think you have got to confirm that the water is actually being pumped
around the cooling system and especially the radiator.
I saw a utube of a guy running a rebuilt 12 cylinder engine.
He had some clear tube in the cooling system so that he could confirm water flow.
Any way you could do something similar? If you could use a short length of tube
in the top hose, insert a piece of wool in the joint so that it can be seen and you
can then see the direction and strength of flow.
fleabay do some acrylic hose in short lengths and diameters.
Just an idea....
Not in 32mm unfortunately
Think i'm going to have to take the thermostat out and check its working, thats the only bit thats checkable. Drill some holes in it and go
from there
Ben
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stevepj
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| posted on 28/4/13 at 07:54 PM |
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you say you have flow from the inlet to the header tank, is this the 8mm bleed pipe as per when in the vauxhall or the 25mm ish pipe from the manifold
that would connect to the three way pipe in the vauxhall?
Large pipe from inlet should go into the bottom hose, you'll then need to drop another pipe from the header tank down into the bottom hose
too.
Bleed pipe from rad and/or the stat housing goes to the header tank.
Hot top hose and hot bottom hose with a cool rad between would indicate that the heat you are seeing is conducting through the fluids rather than by
flow caused by the fluid circulating through the engine.
I ran a 20xe for four years with just the top hose from the stat housing to the rad top connector and the bottom rad pipe connected to the vauxhall
three way pipe off the back of the water pump without any issues at all including continental driving at 38 degrees.
Now running a Z20LET with top hose from stat housing to top of rad, bleed from stat housing running through the turbo to the bottom hose, flow from
inlet into the bottom hose which comes from back of water pump into the bottom of the rad. This set up runs at around 80 degrees, will rise to 90
when pushed hard and can drop to mid 70's cruising on the motorway.
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 28/4/13 at 08:19 PM |
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It's the 8mm pipe off the top of the inlet into the tank that has flow.
Large pipe from inlet to bottom hose, tank goes into bottom hose.
Bleed from rad goes to tank
The water pump and plastic 3 way pipe are as per cavalier.
The top pipe is hot first, then as the engine gets to 95 the bottom hose started the get hot and slowly warmed the rad up till it was hot to touch.
But running the fan doesn't cool the engine.
Ben
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loggyboy
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| posted on 28/4/13 at 09:13 PM |
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Do temps stay ok when driving?
Mistral Motorsport
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 29/4/13 at 04:37 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
Do temps stay ok when driving?
I've not been able to drive it, it overheated on the rolling road so I'm guessing it'll do the same on the road if its not flowing
round the rad properly
Ben
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yellowcab
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| posted on 29/4/13 at 06:58 AM |
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Despite rolling roads having a massive fan pointing at the rad, the car is still sat stationary in a hot environment.
I still think driving around makes a difference than sitting on rollers when it comes to engine temps
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britishtrident
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| posted on 29/4/13 at 02:43 PM |
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Is the engine actually boiling ? These engines run hot the standard thermostat opening temperature for these engines is 92c that means once
warmed up normal running temperature is never going to be below 93c even with the fan running. Keep in mind modern tintops are designed to run hot
and the dashboards show the temperature at a constant "N" between 75c and 115c
Fitting a lower temperature fan switch won't lower the running temperature below the thermostat opening temperature.
An ebay search on C20XE thermostat should turn up a lower temperature thermostat but the by-pass hose should also be re-instated.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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