markie76
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| posted on 3/10/12 at 01:20 PM |
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Pinto overheating like steam engine......
Hi Guys,
Having driven my JC Locust Sports with 2.0 Pinto engine (donor 1979 Cortina?) twice on the road for a short distance (6-7 miles) it has on both
occassions overheated with steam emitting from the engine bay.
Until now it's only been idling on the drive for 10-15 mins and driven up/down the road on short test runs - which showed no overheating
symptoms.
Its first proper run was to the MOT - distance of 7 miles which took 12-15 mins and short blasts of 60mph. Got there and temp gauge was at max with
steam coming out the bottom of the engine bay. Just after the brake test it did its steam train impression and then left it for 25 mins to cool down.
On the drive home the temp gauage was almost at max but when I reached fast stretches of road the gauge would start coming down - when I got home and
parked up no steam.
The second proper run was to the retest - same distance. Just before I got there (1000m) it was already steaming a bit. I parked up and left it for 10
mins before the tester started. It passed and on the way home I had to stop after 5 mins and left it for 20 mins. Then I set off and temp gauge was
soon at max but no steam yet but I was turning the engine off each time I stopped. When I got home and parked up no steam.
I have done some research and will be checking the pump and thermostat - then doing a flush and refill - then see how it is before taking it
further.
However, before doing anything, I wondered if you guys could have a look at how my cooling system is plumbed and give your
feedback/experience/suggestions;
Other PICS; (clickable thumbnails)
Notes;
* The rad just says 'AUTO RADS SHEFFIELD' on it but is a fair size.
* Looking at the water in the system it looks quite 'plain' like its a very weak coolant mix or just water.
* The rad cap seems like the highest point in the system and the catch tank/hose from rad cap - seem like the lowest points.
* The sniff test at the rad cap nothing out of the ordinary - but at the hose in the catch tank (empty but has some gunky residue on the base) smells
a bit petrolly.
* Looking through the rad cap it looks quite brown inside - when I flush it I will see what comes out then consider giving it the overnight vinegar
treatment.
* All the hoses look like nothing fancy but seem in good condition.
Thanks,
Mark.
does it go any faster....?
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steve m
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| posted on 3/10/12 at 01:35 PM |
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Were is the steam actually coming from? as your drawing appears to be ok, (but im a xflow guy, and we dont usually have header tanks)
My thought would be to block of the header/expansion tank, and see if it still seams to boil over,
Could you have a head gasket problem, have you done a compression test ?
Other than that, a good backflush to see if there is any crud in the system blocking things up
Steve
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mcerd1
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| posted on 3/10/12 at 01:35 PM |
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just from your pics:
the mechanical fan without a cowl isn't the most efficent setup - maybe changing it for a modern electric one mounted directly to the back of
the radiator would help (assuming that its overheating when the fan should be cooling it, i.e when you moving slow/stopped)
also it looks like the isn't much in the way of ducting in the nose to stop the ait from just going around the sides of the radiator
(thats all assuming that the eveything else check out ok)
[Edited on 3/10/2012 by mcerd1]
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steve m
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| posted on 3/10/12 at 01:37 PM |
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A thermostat that will not open, would give an overheat problem, so whip it out and retry a new one?
Steve
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Chippy
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| posted on 3/10/12 at 01:45 PM |
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Couple of thing I would check, as well as doing a back flush, would be the ignition timing, plus a compression test. HTH Ray
To make a car go faster, just add lightness. Colin Chapman - OR - fit a bigger engine. Chippy
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chillis
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| posted on 3/10/12 at 02:10 PM |
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Backflush the rad and heater,
Replace the thermostat
Bin the mechanical fan as it now has not cowl to duct the air so it not doin nowt.
Fit electric fan on nosecone side
panel in around the rad so the air entring the nosecone has to go through the rad.
Replace the rad cap
Just a thought - The cooling circuit looks ok from the diagram except the one from the inlet manifold to the header tank. Mine doesn't have that
and I can't see that in the haynes manual either. The header tank on mine is actually an expansion tank which has little or no pressure to deal
with, if the pressure side is going into the tank it will pump hot steamy water out.
Never under estimate the ingenuity of an idiot!
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markie76
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| posted on 3/10/12 at 02:24 PM |
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Thanks for your swift responses;
quote:
Originally posted by steve m
Were is the steam actually coming from? as your drawing appears to be ok, (but im a xflow guy, and we dont usually have header tanks)
My thought would be to block of the header/expansion tank, and see if it still seams to boil over,
Could you have a head gasket problem, have you done a compression test ?
Other than that, a good backflush to see if there is any crud in the system blocking things up
Steve
The only time I have been able to remove the bonnet when it was steaming (it had subsided/cooled down a bit by the time I got the straps undone) -
there was a bit of steam coming out of the hose running down from the rad cap.
When driving/parking up - the steam comes out from the left handside front wheel arch.
I did a compression test a month ago but I did it wrong without WOT - the results then were 90 97 96 103 (rear to front). I will try to repeat it,
correctly in the next few days.
quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
just from your pics:
the mechanical fan without a cowl isn't the most efficent setup - maybe changing it for a modern electric one mounted directly to the back of
the radiator would help (assuming that its overheating when the fan should be cooling it, i.e when you moving slow/stopped)
also it looks like the isn't much in the way of ducting in the nose to stop the ait from just going around the sides of the radiator
(thats all assuming that the eveything else check out ok)
[Edited on 3/10/2012 by mcerd1]
Yes I agree there is a lack of cowling. But at the moment due to lack of a garage will need to put that on the ideas list.
Would a good solution be to fit an electric fan to the front of the radiator (to force air through the rad) and make a DIY duct from the front grille
to the perimeter of the rad? So all the air coming in the front has to pass through the rad 
quote:
Originally posted by steve m
A thermostat that will not open, would give an overheat problem, so whip it out and retry a new one?
Steve
Definately my next step to pull the thermostat to inspect and test in boiling water. Also remove the pump to check the impeller is in good condition
and actually working.
quote:
Originally posted by Chippy
Couple of thing I would check, as well as doing a back flush, would be the ignition timing, plus a compression test. HTH Ray
Will do a flush and overnight vinegar treatment to remove any stubborn nasties clinging onto its insides.
Then redo compression test. I have a timing lamp somewhere that I will dig out and have a go - or is there an easier way to check ignition timing?
quote:
Originally posted by chillis
Backflush the rad and heater,
Replace the thermostat
Bin the mechanical fan as it now has not cowl to duct the air so it not doin nowt.
Fit electric fan on nosecone side
panel in around the rad so the air entring the nosecone has to go through the rad.
Replace the rad cap
Just a thought - The cooling circuit looks ok from the diagram except the one from the inlet manifold to the header tank. Mine doesn't have that
and I can't see that in the haynes manual either. The header tank on mine is actually an expansion tank which has little or no pressure to deal
with, if the pressure side is going into the tank it will pump hot steamy water out.
Great minds think alike! Makes sense all the air coming in the grille needs to be forced through the rad - but might be difficult at the moment due to
lack of garage and winter coming. But will stick it at tope of to do list.
The hose to the catch/expansion tank comes out of the block - both hoses on the inlet side come directly out of the block. It has twin
Dollorto's and the inlet manifold doesn't have passthrough pipes.
I don't think anything is coming out of that hose into the catch/expansion tank as its dry and just has a blob of black gunk in it. Although,
having said that someone has drilled a grid of small holes in the top of that tank as if to let pressure/vapour out.
This concurs with Steve m's reply and logically makes sense.
Would you expect there to be a pressure valve at the block where that hose is connected to to only release when over a certain limit? Its under the
carb manifolds and difficult to see - at some point I will be removing the carbs & inlet manifold so will have to wait til then to check.
EDIT; Forgot to ask for recommendations on where to buy/the brand of a new thermostat, pump (if required) and electric cooling fan - I have a
half-width battery fitted, don't know if that makes a difference on fan spec.
[Edited on 3/10/12 by markie76]
does it go any faster....?
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snapper
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| posted on 3/10/12 at 02:41 PM |
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My last overheat problem which manifested itself as yours does was a sticking thermostat and a weak rad cap
The inside of the thermostat housing was also badly corroded.
I replaced thermostat with an 82 degree one from Burton performance, replaced the housing with a good one I had and put a new high pressure cap on.
One point to look at is air lock, I have a T piece with a cap on in the line from pump to heater and have this at ghehighest point just above the
rocker cover, I fill the rad with this open then top up via the T piece.
I think your problem is an air lock as the rad filling point is lower than the Pinto head
[Edited on 3/10/12 by snapper]
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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mcerd1
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| posted on 3/10/12 at 03:04 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by markie76
Yes I agree there is a lack of cowling. But at the moment due to lack of a garage will need to put that on the ideas list.
Would a good solution be to fit an electric fan to the front of the radiator (to force air through the rad) and make a DIY duct from the front grille
to the perimeter of the rad? So all the air coming in the front has to pass through the rad
In theory you only need the fan when your not going fast enough to get the air flow (my tin-top one has been broken for months and its only overheated
once  )
also I was always told that the 'sucking' type electric fans (on the back of the rad) worked better thant the blowing type ones (on the
front) and you should have enough space once the mechanical one is gone (you could always move the rad forward a little too)
quote:
Originally posted by markie76
EDIT; Forgot to ask for recommendations on where to buy/the brand of a new thermostat, pump (if required) and electric cooling fan - I have a
half-width battery fitted, don't know if that makes a difference on fan spec.
Thermostat's and pumps should be avalible from any decent motorfactor, but if your totaly stuck burton power stock most things for the older
ford engines (not the cheapest though)
the fans are avalible from anywhere that sells race/rally/offroad/fastroad upgrade parts - loads of places so best to shop around for a bargan, rally
design are often quite good....
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richwill
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| posted on 3/10/12 at 03:08 PM |
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I thought the header /expansion tank was meant to be the highest point. it is on mine.having the expansion tank at the lowest point would surely cause
an airlock.
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mookaloid
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| posted on 3/10/12 at 03:15 PM |
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I'm not sure your 'expansion tank' is anything to do with the cooling system at all. I think if you follow the pipe coming out of
the top of the tank then it will go into the side of the block just above the sump - assuming that this is the case then it is a breather catch tank
for crank case breathing.
the steam is probably coming out of the pipe which is connected to the filler neck on the rad which then probably just goes down and out of the engine
bay. Ideally this pipe should go to another catch bottle so that excess coolant is siphoned back in to the rad as it cools down. You will need to
check that you have the correct rad cap for this set up.
Also do the other stuff - replace thermostat flush etc.
Cheers
Mooky
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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jacko
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| posted on 3/10/12 at 05:32 PM |
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+ Is the holes in the grill big enough the size makes a big difference to the cooling
also the pipe that is fastened to the rocker is to high and may get a air lock
use copper pipe under the exhaust like i have
Jacko
 
engine 2
[Edited on 3/10/12 by jacko]
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britishtrident
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| posted on 3/10/12 at 06:35 PM |
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Simples
(1) Check the ignition timing and the ignition centrafugal advance is working.
(2) new thermostat from your local motorfactor (should cost about £3.50) before fitting drill two small holes (approx 2mm to 2.5mm) in
the valve plate of the thermostat to allow a by-pass. NB don't drill more than two holes as the engine will take too long to warm up.
If this dosen't work it strongly points to a blown head gasket.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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Oddified
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| posted on 3/10/12 at 07:34 PM |
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Looking at your first diagram, the catch/expansion tank i assume is just for the oil breather and not the cooling system??.
If it's connected into the cooling system (with open vent holes in the top) no no no!
Ian
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nickm
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| posted on 3/10/12 at 08:04 PM |
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I thought like richwill that the header tank should be the highest point and the system should be pressurised ie no holes ?
Think you may have a few things combined which are making it overheat.
Nick M
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