Valtra
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 posted on 1/5/12 at 05:33 PM |
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GSXR Throttle bodies advice
Hi
Just taken delivery from ebay of some clean GSXR 600 TB's to do a conversion from 40 webers . on examination they are fitted with the secondary
butterflies as expected which shouldn't be hard to remove, however they also have a second set of injectors , Have I stumbled upon the only
unsuitable TBs available or do I need to remove and blank off blank off those as well ?
There are two linked Fuel rails which could easily be removed and used singly .... As you can tell I have a steep learning curve ahead .... Also
there are vacuum tubes from each body which join at a electrical socket is this a MAP sensor or does it connect to one elsewhere?
Oh and while I'm at it I assume I will need bigger injectors for car use so what will fit straight in and connect up to a mega/microsquirt .
projected power from my 1.6 fiat Twink (with Abarth head and cams) is 130- 150 hp. All advice and input greatly appreciated.
By the way assuming I've bought useful TBs and airbox I think they were a bargain at a maiden bid of £40 plus £15 carriage ....No?
Thanks
Ian
"If it looks like it works and it feels like it works, then it works"
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 1/5/12 at 06:03 PM |
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Are the throttle bodies separable? or are they in 2 pairs?
Maybe a photo.
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big-vee-twin
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| posted on 1/5/12 at 06:12 PM |
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Think those come a two pairs rather than four separates, you will most probably need a custom manifold to adapt the cylinder spacing to the body
spacing.
FastDan on here should be able to help you.
Duratec Engine is fitted, MS2 Extra V3 is assembled and tested, engine running, car now built. IVA passed 26/02/2016
http://www.triangleltd.com
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Andybarbet
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| posted on 1/5/12 at 08:49 PM |
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Heres a pic of my GSXR 600's (2001 Year) They are 4 seperate bodies with two sets of butterflys but only one injector rail with one injector per
body
 
seperating bodys
Here they are spaced out on a custom manifold, i made a fuel rail bracket for support & it secures the injectors too, just need to make the fuel
rail joiner pipes on the lathe at work now & fill the holes where i removed the secondary butterflys
 
Injector bracket
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Valtra
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| posted on 1/5/12 at 09:46 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by matt_gsxr
Are the throttle bodies separable? or are they in 2 pairs?
Maybe a photo.
2 pairs but I'm not planning to separate them
"If it looks like it works and it feels like it works, then it works"
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Valtra
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| posted on 1/5/12 at 09:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by big-vee-twin
Think those come a two pairs rather than four separates, you will most probably need a custom manifold to adapt the cylinder spacing to the body
spacing.
FastDan on here should be able to help you.
planning to fabricate my own by modifying another Fiat manifold ...that's the plan
"If it looks like it works and it feels like it works, then it works"
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Valtra
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| posted on 1/5/12 at 10:07 PM |
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throttle bodies
if this works you should see the generic picture I bought them from however the (visible) injector plugs are grey and brown on mine , condition is not
quite as glistening but not bad
"If it looks like it works and it feels like it works, then it works"
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se7ensport
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| posted on 1/5/12 at 10:08 PM |
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I had a set of similar TB's and still re-spaced them slightly to match my manifold, stripped out the second butterflies and filled the holes
with epoxy resin.
I mapped mine for Alpha-N rather than using a MAP sensor so I joined all of the vacuum tubes together, it is likely to be a MAP sensor you currently
have connected..
Rather than bigger injectors just run both sets at the same time, I actually bought a set of 1000cc GSXR ones with the 8 injectors to do just that,
but I found that the ones I already had from the 750 gave me a sensible duty cycle.
 
Description
 
Description
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 1/5/12 at 10:11 PM |
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Regarding running the injectors from Megasquirt.
I don't know the exact design of these TB's but if one set of injectors is before the throttle plates then you need to stage the injectors
(i.e. don't run the outer injectors when at low throttle openings).
Staged injection can be controlled from megaquirt. MS1 can do it but it isn't very clever during the transition when the outer injectors come
in (it is all or nothing with MS1). MS2 and later is much more powerful in this regard and properly ramps up the outer injectors. I ran a set-up
like this and it worked fine.
If you run both sets of injectors then you probably should have enough fuel.
It looks like one set of the injectors are shared with gsxr750 and also the vzr1800. (ron ayres cross reference)
The vzr1800 (not a bike I have heard about before) uses only 2 injectors and makes 125hp which suggests to me that you will have oodles of fuel with 4
of these.
Only internet information though.
Matt
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Valtra
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| posted on 1/5/12 at 10:14 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by se7ensport
I had a set of similar TB's and still re-spaced them slightly to match my manifold, stripped out the second butterflies and filled the holes
with epoxy resin.
I mapped mine for Alpha-N rather than using a MAP sensor so I joined all of the vacuum tubes together, it is likely to be a MAP sensor you currently
have connected..
Rather than bigger injectors just run both sets at the same time, I actually bought a set of 1000cc GSXR ones with the 8 injectors to do just that,
but I found that the ones I already had from the 750 gave me a sensible duty cycle.
Description
Description
To run 2 sets (presumably thats what the Suzuki does all the time ) i guess I would parallel wire them but would they be big enough combined and would
that cuase problems for the ECU
"If it looks like it works and it feels like it works, then it works"
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Valtra
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| posted on 1/5/12 at 10:16 PM |
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not really looking for complication . which is why I'm considering Microsquirt
"If it looks like it works and it feels like it works, then it works"
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Valtra
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| posted on 1/5/12 at 10:30 PM |
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Will try to get some photos of the actual TB's uploaded tomorrow , again excuse my ignorance but I understood an injection set up would require
a return pipe to the tank for unused fuel , but there is no provision for that here .
Cheers for all the info so far , I'm hoping to study some more setups at Stoneleigh for inspiration and get a feel for the jargon
"If it looks like it works and it feels like it works, then it works"
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Valtra
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| posted on 1/5/12 at 10:47 PM |
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http://www.gixxer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286472
found this link which indicates my primary Brown injectors should flow 225 cc at 43.5 psi (3bar) which according to the B&G website makes them
bang on for 150 hp every day's a school day
All comments gratefully received
"If it looks like it works and it feels like it works, then it works"
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Valtra
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| posted on 2/5/12 at 07:35 PM |
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Some pictures as promised
 
twin injection rails
 
Description
blurred sorry
 
Description
 
Description
 
throttle bods
"If it looks like it works and it feels like it works, then it works"
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big-vee-twin
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| posted on 2/5/12 at 07:54 PM |
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You will need a return pipe back to the tank, also the vacuum pipes are connected to a MAP sensor, if you use megasquirt the MS has one built in,
Micro squirt does not so you may be able to use that one you have.
Duratec Engine is fitted, MS2 Extra V3 is assembled and tested, engine running, car now built. IVA passed 26/02/2016
http://www.triangleltd.com
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Valtra
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| posted on 2/5/12 at 09:45 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by big-vee-twin
You will need a return pipe back to the tank, also the vacuum pipes are connected to a MAP sensor, if you use megasquirt the MS has one built in,
Micro squirt does not so you may be able to use that one you have.
Thanks where does the return pipe go from ?
"If it looks like it works and it feels like it works, then it works"
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se7ensport
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| posted on 2/5/12 at 10:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Valtra
To run 2 sets (presumably thats what the Suzuki does all the time ) i guess I would parallel wire them but would they be big enough combined and would
that cuase problems for the ECU
It shouldn't do, I'm running VEMs which has no issues with paring injectors.
Regarding return line, insert a T piece as close to the fuel rails as possible going via a fuel pressure regulator returning to the tank. When I did
this on my pinto/GSXR setup I put the regulator right next to the tank rather than in the engine bay as I didn't want to run a return line,
ideally the closer to the fuel rail the better to ensure an even pressure.
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Valtra
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| posted on 2/5/12 at 10:34 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by se7ensport
quote:
Originally posted by Valtra
To run 2 sets (presumably thats what the Suzuki does all the time ) i guess I would parallel wire them but would they be big enough combined and would
that cuase problems for the ECU
It shouldn't do, I'm running VEMs which has no issues with paring injectors.
Regarding return line, insert a T piece as close to the fuel rails as possible going via a fuel pressure regulator returning to the tank. When I did
this on my pinto/GSXR setup I put the regulator right next to the tank rather than in the engine bay as I didn't want to run a return line,
ideally the closer to the fuel rail the better to ensure an even pressure.
Yes I think I'm getting the idea the rail only has one inlet but it that supply is interrupted by a regulator any pressure /flow over the
regulator setting is returned back to tank.
Re injectors as above it seems the brown main injectors on my TBs are about spot on for my power expectations so will blank the grey ones somehow
(suggestions?)
the fog is clearing now thanks gents
"If it looks like it works and it feels like it works, then it works"
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se7ensport
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| posted on 3/5/12 at 05:49 AM |
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May as well leave them in, you could look to find a core plugs in the right diameter and glue them in, but it does risk leaking air.
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Valtra
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| posted on 3/5/12 at 07:21 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by se7ensport
May as well leave them in, you could look to find a core plugs in the right diameter and glue them in, but it does risk leaking air.
Fair point , are they held in with the fuel rail or do they screw in somehow?
cheers
"If it looks like it works and it feels like it works, then it works"
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se7ensport
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| posted on 3/5/12 at 12:13 PM |
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Fuel rail holds them in place.
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 3/5/12 at 01:41 PM |
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Suzuki have a fuel pressure regulator built into the pump and use a "dead head" system. So no return fuel line.
This works fine and is clean and simple.
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big-vee-twin
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| posted on 3/5/12 at 02:16 PM |
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I blanked my injector ports using large headed roof bolts engineering glue (araldite) and liquid metal.
See below
[img]
 
GSXR on Duratec
[/img]
Duratec Engine is fitted, MS2 Extra V3 is assembled and tested, engine running, car now built. IVA passed 26/02/2016
http://www.triangleltd.com
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Valtra
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| posted on 3/5/12 at 04:33 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by matt_gsxr
Suzuki have a fuel pressure regulator built into the pump and use a "dead head" system. So no return fuel line.
This works fine and is clean and simple.
Thanks , that makes sense so long as the pressure regulator I choose is set correctly and accurately, I guess it will work a bit like a waste-gate on
a turbo motor 
"If it looks like it works and it feels like it works, then it works"
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Valtra
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| posted on 3/5/12 at 04:35 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by big-vee-twin
I blanked my injector ports using large headed roof bolts engineering glue (araldite) and liquid metal.
See below
[img]
GSXR on Duratec
[/img]
Yes I thought a stubby bolt and chemical metal/solder would probably work ok , I used a similar method to blank a vacuum take off on my current inlet
manifold which works fine.
cheers
"If it looks like it works and it feels like it works, then it works"
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