jabbahutt
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| posted on 18/12/08 at 08:52 AM |
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bike carbs for beginners
Morning all
I've searched posts and found plenty of info but must admit it's all a bit confusing. I've found the post dealing with converting
CEC to BEC but there doesn't seem to be anything similar for just converting to bike carbs.
I understand that R1 carbs are a popular choice but just what else is involved in converting to bike carbs apart from actually fitting the carbs and
manifold?
Is there an idiots guide for the clueless as once I've got use to driving my current set up it's something I'd certainly consider
particualry because of the improved fuel consumption and performance, but if it's technically confusing and too in depth I'd leave well
alone as I still want to be able to work on the car without constant assistance.
Any advice on posts covering the above or info/web sites on the subject much appreciated.
Thanks all
Nigel
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 18/12/08 at 09:02 AM |
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I noted with some amusement that in my Volksworld mag that they still recommend that the best thing to fit is a set of duel Webbers and though they
did token mention that some folk fit bike fuel injection systems they are considered to high-tec for the amateur to set up. One day they may drag
themselves out the dark ages and realise what they have been missing out on.
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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r1_pete
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| posted on 18/12/08 at 09:05 AM |
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There's not much more to it than you've said really:
1) Manifold, Bogg Brothers do a good job, Mine was £188, inc carb jet drilling, many people make their own in steel, many flanges are available ready
CNC'd, I'm making my own injection manifold.
2) Carbs, yes R1's are a popular choice along with 38 or 40 mm CVK's from the Kawasaki range 9R, ZZR11, ZXR750 etc. Again Boggs will
re-jet them to something like, 150 - 180 seems the norm.
3 Carb mounting, if you make your own manifold try and get the carbs to sit as close to the angle they are on the bike, on the R1 the carbs are almost
dowdraught - they will work at many angles, but IMO the original installation was arrived at for a reason.
4) Off the bench you will get them running, but a rolling road session is a must, My setup works but I'm still not happy with starting and idle,
and a proper set up should cure that.
5) Ignition management, TPS or MAP, carbs from later bikes have a TPS fitted, and you can use that to control a 3d ignition system, or, MAP, if your
carbs have vac take offs these can be used, again, IMO if your carbs dont have vac take offs, fit some in the manifold, they make balancing with a set
of gauges much easier, and more accurate.
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jabbahutt
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| posted on 18/12/08 at 09:14 AM |
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Many thanks for taking the time to explain all that Pete.
So if I wanted to avoid all the confusion of maps/TPS and everything else that sounds like it involves electrics and keep it as simple as possible
whilst gaining fuel ecconomy and some extra performance, what would be the best/easiest carbs for a complete idiot to try using?
So if I have got this right, for a simple set up all I need is 4 bike carbs, a manifold and linkages etc to connect to the pedal(is this right?)
I put my hands up and admit I know nothing about bikes except that i think they have less wheels
Many thanks again
Nigel
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r1_pete
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| posted on 18/12/08 at 09:22 AM |
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Difficult to answer without knowing your existing Engine, Carb, Ignition setup, Nigel. Important bit about the ignition is how it is currently
managed, Distributor with Vac advance, electronic with TPS etc....
Post that up and I'll try and help some more.....
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jabbahutt
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| posted on 18/12/08 at 09:34 AM |
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Sorry Pete being mentally slower than usual which is saying something!!
Current set up is very basic.
2.0 pinto with 205 block
32/36 weber carb
points based distributor (don't laugh!!)
I wanted the simplest easiest to sort ut system just to get up and running but as a future project I'm looking into this as a reasonably
affordable method to improve fuel consumption and increase performance.
Though i still want to be able to get my head round the system so I'm not reliant on more technically savvy friends.
Cheers
Nigel
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whitestu
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| posted on 18/12/08 at 09:35 AM |
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I can only advise on what I did on my Zetec. Apologies if I miss anything:
Method 1.
Respaced ZX6R carbs [from someone on here] They are fairly easy to respace if you can get some ali tube turned down on a lathe to extend the fuel
rail]
ZX6R rubber inlets as used on bike
ZX6R fuel pump
5mm thick piece of aluminium made into an inlet manifold flange with bike carb rubbers bolted to this.
Pipercross sausage filter and blank backplate.
1.6mm drill bit to drill out man jets.
MK throttle cable
Choke cable from CBS.
Homemade inlet gasket from gasket paper.
Plenty of gasket compund to seal it all up.
 
inlet manifold
Method 2:
As above but with homemade steel inlet manifold to fit non respaced ZX6R carbs to original carb rubbers, with carbs angled upwards like they are on
the bike.
Home made airbox with cone air filter.
 
airbox_2
I'm using the first setup which ought not to work well as the carbs are way off the original mounting angle compared to the bike.
However nobody seems to have told the carbs this and they work perfectly. I've had no problems with fuel starvation however I drive it.
The second setup with the airbox is a bit quieter and was done with trackday noise levels in mind. I may fit the airbox to the respaced set up at some
point.
The whole thing works amazingly well. I haven't had the car on a dyno, but it pulls hard from tickover to as far as I dare rev it. I haven't
checked on my new engine but on the old one I was averaging 38mpg.
The next thing on the list is to fit a wideband lambda sensor and JAW controller to set up the mixture properly, although to drive it seems fine.
Hope this helps
Stu
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r1_pete
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| posted on 18/12/08 at 10:11 AM |
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Stu's setup above, the ally plate and bike carb rubbers, would work well on your existing engine, you could connect all those vacuum pipes into
one, then to the distributor vac advance, fabication done. You could use one of the pre cut manifold flanges, about £20 from someone on here (cant
remember his name).
Then on to setup...
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 18/12/08 at 10:11 AM |
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Is there any advantage at all in using an aluminum intake manifold? I can understand them being use with car carbs due to their size but on most of
the bike setups use manifolds that are just a plate and some tubes. Seems hardly worth the extra money and bother.
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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whitestu
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| posted on 18/12/08 at 10:17 AM |
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quote:
Is there any advantage at all in using an aluminum intake manifold? I can understand them being use with car carbs due to their size but on most of
the bike setups use manifolds that are just a plate and some tubes. Seems hardly worth the extra money and bother.
AFAIK it is to allow non-respaced carbs to be used. It also allows the carbs to fitted at the same angle as on the bike so the floats work properly
[though mine seem fine anyway].
Stu
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DarrenW
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| posted on 18/12/08 at 10:18 AM |
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Im a tw@t for researching too deeply when im going to do such mods. i confused the hell out of myself when doing the bike carb and megajolt swap.
Honestly - there was no need. I should have spent the energy on just doing it.
No reason at all why your points based dizzy wont work well with bike carbs. True electronic may be a tad more reliable and megajolt might give you
better tweekability but do that later if you wish.
Carbs. Id be tempted to get a set with the TPS built in. You dont have to use it but its there for the future.
My ZZR1100's are great carbs. Yes a tad older than some but due to availability becoming more popular. Aim for any from a 900 to 1000 bike and
you cant go far wrong.
Angled manifold or respaced carbs - in the world of absolute perfection maybe respaced are best. In the real world - doesnt make a jot of difference
to a road / hobby track car. Go for whatever suits your budget or skills.
Carbs have to be same angle as in bike - again not true for a road / hobby track car. Mine are angled to fit in car and put air filter where i want
it.
Parts;
carbs,
filter,
bike fuel pump,
throttle cable kit,
manifold,
odds and sods like rubber joiners, gaskets, nuts and bolts etc.
You will need a little advice on settings etc after that lot but just clash them on and fire it up. Rolling Road set up is not only recommended, but
vital imho. Where to get them done is trickier. Cant priase Boggs highly enough but they arent local for a lot of people (i drove 2 hours each
way).
Honestly - just get on with it. Brilliant mod and can be very cost effective.
My only word of warning though is that if you are planning on changing from the Pinto in the future, do that now instead rather than plough more cash
into it.
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jabbahutt
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| posted on 18/12/08 at 10:26 AM |
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Many thanks for the info fellas it's much appreciated. as mention at the beginning this is for future ref for when I've actually got use
to driving what i've already got and itching for a small winter project.
Thought i'd start looking into it now so I can start sourcing the needed parts etc.
Again many thanks for the time and assistance. And in case I don't get chance nearer the time, Meery Christmas to all on here. hope you all
have a fantastic Chrimbo and a propserous New Year
Nigel
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whitestu
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| posted on 18/12/08 at 11:05 AM |
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quote:
Aim for any from a 900 to 1000 bike and you cant go far wrong.
This is good advice, but bear in mind many sports 600 bikes come with 37-38mm carbs and are a lot cheaper. I've picked up two sets of ZX6R carbs
on ebay. One was £15, the other £10.
The ZX6Rs I'm using are 37.5mm. My 2.0 Zetec goes well enough with them. They also have a TPS.
I think the chokes on Webebr 40s are about 32mm.
Stu
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 18/12/08 at 01:10 PM |
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If you click on the 'WWW' button below this reply, and follow the links to bike carbs, you'll see how I fitted some CBR600 carbs to
a x-flow.
[Edited on 18/12/08 by David Jenkins]
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jacko
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| posted on 18/12/08 at 05:28 PM |
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Nigle have a look in my photo archives under zx9r carbs
you will see the manifold & jig i made
Jacko
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