MikeRJ
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| posted on 29/4/13 at 03:19 PM |
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Also do you have anywhere for hot air to escape e.g. vents in the sides or bonnet? Does it still overheat if you take the bonnet off?
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 29/4/13 at 03:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
Also do you have anywhere for hot air to escape e.g. vents in the sides or bonnet? Does it still overheat if you take the bonnet off?
Yes and yes I have a lot of holes in the bonnet. But it still gets hot without bonnet.
I'll get a low temp thermostat too
Ben
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 29/4/13 at 03:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
Is the engine actually boiling ? These engines run hot the standard thermostat opening temperature for these engines is 92c that means once
warmed up normal running temperature is never going to be below 93c even with the fan running. Keep in mind modern tintops are designed to run hot
and the dashboards show the temperature at a constant "N" between 75c and 115c
Fitting a lower temperature fan switch won't lower the running temperature below the thermostat opening temperature.
An ebay search on C20XE thermostat should turn up a lower temperature thermostat but the by-pass hose should also be re-instated.
I've not boiled it yet as I've never let it get that far. I've seen the gauge hit 105-110 with no fan coming on. Manually switching
the fan on doesn't cool the engine at all which is what's worrying me
Thank you everyone for their advice so far.
Ben
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Wheels244
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| posted on 29/4/13 at 07:45 PM |
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Do you want me to have a look to see if i've got a pump in my boxes of bits Ben ?
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 29/4/13 at 08:44 PM |
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Yeah if you don't mind mate. Please.
I'm hoping its the thermostat, I couldn't test it tonight cos we have no water or has due to boiler install going on till 9.15pm!
Ben
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Wheels244
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| posted on 29/4/13 at 09:19 PM |
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I'll have a look when I get home from work tomorrow - can soon pop it in the post if I find one.
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laptoprob
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| posted on 29/4/13 at 09:45 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben_Copeland
I'm having real trouble with my engine cooling.
Pleas help someone!
Hi Ben,
where do i start....
Some friends on here know that i have had 4 different XE engines with varied power(which is now 260hp) and to be fair i've had trouble with
overheating on all of them!
Thats not pointing a finger at the engine either as an XE can run this much power through a std Cav or Calibra rad in a normal car.
I'm just about nearing the point wher i think i may have it but believe me its been a slog to find out what the cause was!
Dont bother with the stat as the one you have(as long as its not sticking) is more than sufficient but do drill it as air pockets or
"kettling" occurs behind here and this allows for air to escape as well as other benfits too.
The pipe at the back of the head thats for the heater should in my opinion and of many engine builders(excluding SBD as they say its fine!) should be
connected back to the pipe that flows back to the expansion tank. Ive seen this in many Caterhams(8-12 years old) where the original XE heater pipe is
still fitted without problems and lets face it Caterham dont do things by half usually.
My rad bleed goes back to tank too along with one from the thermo housing.
I followed the SBD layout too and its fine.
A couple of questions which is where im left to explore on mine presently is does your header tank sit much higher than the rad?
Also when you are upto temp does the rad feel hot in the centre on the fins?
Hope any of this info helps as i can fully understand your frustration on this matter.
U2U me if i can help any further with pics etc?
Rob.
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Wheels244
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| posted on 29/4/13 at 09:54 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by laptoprob
quote:
Originally posted by Ben_Copeland
I'm having real trouble with my engine cooling.
Pleas help someone!
Hi Ben,
where do i start....
Some friends on here know that i have had 4 different XE engines with varied power(which is now 260hp) and to be fair i've had trouble with
overheating on all of them!
Thats not pointing a finger at the engine either as an XE can run this much power through a std Cav or Calibra rad in a normal car.
I'm just about nearing the point wher i think i may have it but believe me its been a slog to find out what the cause was!
Dont bother with the stat as the one you have(as long as its not sticking) is more than sufficient but do drill it as air pockets or
"kettling" occurs behind here and this allows for air to escape as well as other benfits too.
The pipe at the back of the head thats for the heater should in my opinion and of many engine builders(excluding SBD as they say its fine!) should be
connected back to the pipe that flows back to the expansion tank. Ive seen this in many Caterhams(8-12 years old) where the original XE heater pipe is
still fitted without problems and lets face it Caterham dont do things by half usually.
My rad bleed goes back to tank too along with one from the thermo housing.
I followed the SBD layout too and its fine.
A couple of questions which is where im left to explore on mine presently is does your header tank sit much higher than the rad?
Also when you are upto temp does the rad feel hot in the centre on the fins?
Hope any of this info helps as i can fully understand your frustration on this matter.
U2U me if i can help any further with pics etc?
Rob.
Bugger ! - All this has got me a bit worried about firing mine up now - was hoping to be a position to do that in a couple of weeks.
[Edited on 29/4/13 by Wheels244]
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laptoprob
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| posted on 29/4/13 at 10:02 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Wheels244
quote:
Originally posted by laptoprob
quote:
Originally posted by Ben_Copeland
I'm having real trouble with my engine cooling.
Pleas help someone!
Rob.
Bugger ! - All this has got me a bit worried about firing mine up now - was hoping to be a position to do that in a couple of weeks.
[Edited on 29/4/13 by Wheels244]
Dont let it stop you matey. I know others that run these engines in highly tuned Westfields without probs. We all have different rads etc and
positioning on header tanks which some work great and others dont.
Like i said im on the last leg of a long jopurney with this topic and the only two things left are the header tank position(too low) and the rad not
working correctly(which cost a few quid so doubt it but you never know).
I will be changing both next month to see if it solves it and will let you know.
Incidently mine will not overheat now (after loads of mods)on a normal road run even with some hammer but will not stay cool on track at all which is
where i spend 75% of my time.
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 30/4/13 at 05:49 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by laptoprob
quote:
Originally posted by Ben_Copeland
I'm having real trouble with my engine cooling.
Pleas help someone!
Hi Ben,
where do i start....
A couple of questions which is where im left to explore on mine presently is does your header tank sit much higher than the rad?
Also when you are upto temp does the rad feel hot in the centre on the fins?
Hope any of this info helps as i can fully understand your frustration on this matter.
U2U me if i can help any further with pics etc?
Rob.
Yeah the bottles about an inch off the bonnet line and the rad does feel hot in the centre eventually.
I've ordered a low temp stat anyway, if it doesn't come by the weekend I'll drill mine and check its actually working!
It's very frustrating!
Ben
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laptoprob
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| posted on 30/4/13 at 06:53 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben_Copeland
quote:
Originally posted by laptoprob
quote:
Originally posted by Ben_Copeland
I'm having real trouble with my engine cooling.
Pleas help someone!
Hi Ben,
where do i start....
A couple of questions which is where im left to explore on mine presently is does your header tank sit much higher than the rad?
Also when you are upto temp does the rad feel hot in the centre on the fins?
Hope any of this info helps as i can fully understand your frustration on this matter.
U2U me if i can help any further with pics etc?
Rob.
Yeah the bottles about an inch off the bonnet line and the rad does feel hot in the centre eventually.
I've ordered a low temp stat anyway, if it doesn't come by the weekend I'll drill mine and check its actually working!
It's very frustrating!
Does the inlet at the bottom of the header sit very low though? This is one of the avenues i'm exploring now.
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 30/4/13 at 07:08 AM |
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It's a cavalier bottle with the 3 outlets. The bottom pipe sits just above the battery tray / fire wall.
Not sure that's above the rad, infact it's probably level with the top rad pipe.
Ben
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 3/5/13 at 09:13 PM |
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Bit of an update.
New thermostat with a couple of small holes drilled into it.
Link pipe from heater put back in.
Run the engine back up to temperature, gauge went up to 110. All pipes hot, radiator is hot all over.
Fan didn't come on, infra red temperature sensor shows rad around 60oC but stat body was about 95oC. It's difficult to get a try
temperature with the infrared as the stat body and temp sensor is right next to exhaust manifold.
Only thing I've noticed is the expansion bottle is lower than the top of the radiator, although I've seen many pictures of caterhams with
bottles all over the place.
Ben
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Wheels244
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| posted on 3/5/13 at 09:27 PM |
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Sorry Ben. I haven't chance to look for a pump yet - I'll try in the morning.
Are you going to Stoneleigh - I could bring it with me if I find one.
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 3/5/13 at 09:57 PM |
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Na not going. Got loads to do on the house etc.
Ben
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laptoprob
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| posted on 4/5/13 at 07:44 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben_Copeland
Bit of an update.
New thermostat with a couple of small holes drilled into it.
Link pipe from heater put back in.
Run the engine back up to temperature, gauge went up to 110. All pipes hot, radiator is hot all over.
Fan didn't come on, infra red temperature sensor shows rad around 60oC but stat body was about 95oC. It's difficult to get a try
temperature with the infrared as the stat body and temp sensor is right next to exhaust manifold.
Only thing I've noticed is the expansion bottle is lower than the top of the radiator, although I've seen many pictures of caterhams with
bottles all over the place.
After my first real run out with the rear pipe fitted from the head i am struggling to get it over 65 deg but like i mentioned it was more a problem
on track after a couple of hours.
The board is still out on the level of the header tank which is my next change if this didnt work. Ive looked at loads of Westys over the past few
week s and they nearly all seem to have a small header tank very high up on the scuttle.
Id say you had a poor flowing rad(blocked?). if your seeing 95 at the thermo and 60 at the rad then water isnt flowing.
I had a similar problem years ago with an old Ford rad i had fitted and when i removed it i found that it was half full of crap.
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 4/5/13 at 08:25 AM |
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It's possible that you still have an air lock , it may be possible to bleed by removing the coolant temperature sensor that's likely to be
at the highest point of the cooling system. Worth a try and cost's nothing but just be careful if the engine is hot, it worked on the old 8
valve OHC Vauxhall lumps . It certainly sounds like the coolant isn't circulating for some reason possibly
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 4/5/13 at 09:24 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by laptoprob
quote:
Originally posted by Ben_Copeland
Bit of an update.
New thermostat with a couple of small holes drilled into it.
Link pipe from heater put back in.
Run the engine back up to temperature, gauge went up to 110. All pipes hot, radiator is hot all over.
Fan didn't come on, infra red temperature sensor shows rad around 60oC but stat body was about 95oC. It's difficult to get a try
temperature with the infrared as the stat body and temp sensor is right next to exhaust manifold.
Only thing I've noticed is the expansion bottle is lower than the top of the radiator, although I've seen many pictures of caterhams with
bottles all over the place.
After my first real run out with the rear pipe fitted from the head i am struggling to get it over 65 deg but like i mentioned it was more a problem
on track after a couple of hours.
The board is still out on the level of the header tank which is my next change if this didnt work. Ive looked at loads of Westys over the past few
week s and they nearly all seem to have a small header tank very high up on the scuttle.
Id say you had a poor flowing rad(blocked?). if your seeing 95 at the thermo and 60 at the rad then water isnt flowing.
I had a similar problem years ago with an old Ford rad i had fitted and when i removed it i found that it was half full of crap.
The rads new because of this overheating.
The temp sensor is below the stat and isn't highest point unfortunately.
The bleed at the inlet side of the cylinder head would probably be the highest point.
This is a nightmare. Plus I now can't get the brakes to bleed out either so can't drive it ! Grrrrr
[Edited on 4/5/13 by Ben_Copeland]
Ben
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laptoprob
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| posted on 4/5/13 at 10:07 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben_Copeland
quote:
Originally posted by laptoprob
quote:
Originally posted by Ben_Copeland
Bit of an update.
New thermostat with a couple of small holes drilled into it.
Link pipe from heater put back in.
Run the engine back up to temperature, gauge went up to 110. All pipes hot, radiator is hot all over.
Fan didn't come on, infra red temperature sensor shows rad around 60oC but stat body was about 95oC. It's difficult to get a try
temperature with the infrared as the stat body and temp sensor is right next to exhaust manifold.
Only thing I've noticed is the expansion bottle is lower than the top of the radiator, although I've seen many pictures of caterhams with
bottles all over the place.
After my first real run out with the rear pipe fitted from the head i am struggling to get it over 65 deg but like i mentioned it was more a problem
on track after a couple of hours.
The board is still out on the level of the header tank which is my next change if this didnt work. Ive looked at loads of Westys over the past few
week s and they nearly all seem to have a small header tank very high up on the scuttle.
Id say you had a poor flowing rad(blocked?). if your seeing 95 at the thermo and 60 at the rad then water isnt flowing.
I had a similar problem years ago with an old Ford rad i had fitted and when i removed it i found that it was half full of crap.
The rads new because of this overheating.
The temp sensor is below the stat and isn't highest point unfortunately.
The bleed at the inlet side of the cylinder head would probably be the highest point.
This is a nightmare. Plus I now can't get the brakes to bleed out either so can't drive it ! Grrrrr
[Edited on 4/5/13 by Ben_Copeland]
Bit of a nightmare allround by the sounds of it Ben, sorry to hear it.
Do you have a bleed in the top of the rad?
[Edited on 4/5/13 by laptoprob]
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 4/5/13 at 11:16 AM |
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Yeah it's a polo rad with bleed on the top.
I didn't fit an oil cooler, but I'm thinking that's another thing that will help a little.
I'll look at the Westfield bottle and their plumbing and go from there.
Cheers mate
Ben
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 4/5/13 at 04:10 PM |
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Had my bonnet and nosecone off today and took some pics of my cooling set up for you. Once number one son emails them to me I'll get them to you
for comparison.
Meantime here is a description of how it goes. All descriptions/sides are as if sitting in the drivers seat.
Top hose to rad top left.
fFrom top of inlet manifold to t piece them from tee piece to rad top left 12mm (ish)and also to expansion bottle top fitting ( the water flows
through this pipe the minute the engine starts and is plainly visible in the expansion bottle.
from bottom of exp bottle to water pump std rubber tee where it joins to the rear of the water pump area. 32mm pipe or there abouts this rubber S
shaped type of water pipe is the std v/hall one. a spur from this rubber pipe also goes up to the underside of the inlet manifold ( std v/hall
manifold altered to accept gsxr bodies.
32 mm pipe from back of waterpump to bottom of rad l/h side.
Back of head blanked off.
std polo rad
v/hall rad temp sensor for the fan ( cuts in when the gauge reads 96 ish)
2500 miles so far and all good
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 4/5/13 at 09:24 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by omega 24 v6
Had my bonnet and nosecone off today and took some pics of my cooling set up for you. Once number one son emails them to me I'll get them to you
for comparison.
Meantime here is a description of how it goes. All descriptions/sides are as if sitting in the drivers seat.
Top hose to rad top left.
fFrom top of inlet manifold to t piece them from tee piece to rad top left 12mm (ish)and also to expansion bottle top fitting ( the water flows
through this pipe the minute the engine starts and is plainly visible in the expansion bottle.
from bottom of exp bottle to water pump std rubber tee where it joins to the rear of the water pump area. 32mm pipe or there abouts this rubber S
shaped type of water pipe is the std v/hall one. a spur from this rubber pipe also goes up to the underside of the inlet manifold ( std v/hall
manifold altered to accept gsxr bodies.
32 mm pipe from back of waterpump to bottom of rad l/h side.
Back of head blanked off.
std polo rad
v/hall rad temp sensor for the fan ( cuts in when the gauge reads 96 ish)
2500 miles so far and all good
Sounds the same as mine, but i dont have to Tee piece as both pipes run back to the tank (although i've tried it with a tie piece)
Tried the back of the head connected and blocked off didnt make a difference.
Need another car to compare it too
Ben
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 4/5/13 at 10:19 PM |
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can you see the return to the tank?? The flow on mines is quite defined/visible. Also is it possible that your hoses are " collapsing or kinking
once they warm up??
We are really clutching at straws now are'nt we.?
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 5/5/13 at 05:37 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by omega 24 v6
can you see the return to the tank?? The flow on mines is quite defined/visible. Also is it possible that your hoses are " collapsing or kinking
once they warm up??
We are really clutching at straws now are'nt we.?
There's return from the inlet manifold bleed to the bottle, but nothing from the rad bleed.
No kinks or collapse as they are silicon anyway.
Ben
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 7/5/13 at 06:26 PM |
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Oh well at least i've fixed the brakes. Will raise the header tank this week and hope for the best.
Ben
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