morgan
|
| posted on 13/10/08 at 10:52 PM |
|
|
engine choices?
hey there, i'm looking at building a seven replica in the near future. A few things:
1) Has to be a car engine (sorry boys)
2) Doesn't cost more than £1500ish including plumbing and gearbox
3) Should be around 160bhp+ in standard form but probably will have bike throttle bodies and new ignition (dont mind changing cams etc.)
4) Not too high revving (eg. honda s2000 or rotary)
5) Relatively easy to fit
think thats about it! Just in-case anyone is wondering it will probably go into an MK chassis.
cheers
morgan
|
|
|
|
|
Volvorsport
|
| posted on 13/10/08 at 11:13 PM |
|
|
pinto 
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
|
|
|
Simon
|
| posted on 13/10/08 at 11:25 PM |
|
|
Rover V8 injected lump. 190bhp, with auto or 5 speed (choice of!). Great sound, reliable etc.
ATB
Simon
|
|
|
Daimo_45
|
| posted on 14/10/08 at 12:25 AM |
|
|
And weigh a ton up front.
Easy make 160+ bhp with custom engine management, decent throttle bodies and 4-2-1 manifold on a Zetec, Duratec or XE.
|
|
|
Steve Lovelock
|
| posted on 14/10/08 at 05:41 AM |
|
|
A Vauxhall XE fits that bill perfectly and is brilliant to use in the finished article.
 
Rescued attachment DSC02130a.JPG
|
|
|
Ham
|
| posted on 14/10/08 at 06:00 AM |
|
|
Only 1 choice fits all requirements listed;
4 AGE 20v (silver or black top)
160 bhp standard
Good standard throttle bodies
Rev to 8500 all day
Toyota reliabillity
Cheap and available imported motors.
Compact and light (same size block as a X-flow but lighter)
Cheers
|
|
|
Agriv8
|
| posted on 14/10/08 at 06:34 AM |
|
|
Id got toyota ( thats what Lotus have with the elise IIRC - infact 1 has a turbo bolted on doesnt it ? )
Regards
Agriv8
Taller than your average Guy !
Management is like a tree of monkeys. - Those at the top look down and see a tree full of smiling faces. BUT Those at the bottom look up and see a
tree full of a*seholes .............
|
|
|
coozer
|
| posted on 14/10/08 at 06:57 AM |
|
|
Blacktop 2L Zetec.. 160bhp easy with bike carbs and Megajolt. Millions of them in the scrapyards and on the 'bay.
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
|
|
|
speedyxjs
|
| posted on 14/10/08 at 07:06 AM |
|
|
Jaguar 2.9. 165hp standard. However, weighs a couple of kg's more than the above engines
Id go for toyota if i were you. Great engine.
|
|
|
Mr Whippy
|
| posted on 14/10/08 at 07:19 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by speedyxjs
Jaguar 2.9. 165hp standard. However, weighs a couple of kg's more than the above engines
Id go for toyota if i were you. Great engine.
still think you'd have been better with the volvo 3ltr v6, quite light for its size, scary torque and comes in RWD, can pull an 850 upto about
130mph non turbo'd, cost peanuts from the scrappys 
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
|
|
|
speedyxjs
|
| posted on 14/10/08 at 07:44 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
quote:
Originally posted by speedyxjs
Jaguar 2.9. 165hp standard. However, weighs a couple of kg's more than the above engines
Id go for toyota if i were you. Great engine.
still think you'd have been better with the volvo 3ltr v6, quite light for its size, scary torque and comes in RWD, can pull an 850 upto about
130mph non turbo'd, cost peanuts from the scrappys
Naah. After SVA il fit something more interesting (still jag powered of course)
How long can i resist the temptation to drop a V8 in?
|
|
|
mikeb
|
| posted on 14/10/08 at 08:27 AM |
|
|
I'm running a zetec on bike carbs and megajolt (well will be at least).
Cheap and easy to find.
If I knew what I know now I may have been temped by a mazda 1.8i out of mx5, they are suprisingly cheap at the moment, dog reliable, plenty of tuning
bits. Gives you another option!
|
|
|
nick205
|
| posted on 14/10/08 at 08:55 AM |
|
|
£1500 should see you with a very nice Zetec set-up (bike carbs or throttle bodies run on MegaJolt/Squirt) including inlet and exhaust manifolds etc. -
that would be my choice.
|
|
|
PAUL FISHER
|
| posted on 14/10/08 at 09:52 AM |
|
|
Another vote for Zetec,they also are a popular choice down at MK at the moment,they have recently built a few with brand new "crate"
engines.
Take a look at this great value for money.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FORD-FOCUS-1-8-ZETEC-ENGINE-MK1-1999-2005-BRAND-NEW_W0QQitemZ310090481428QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item310090481428&_trkparms=72%3
A1299%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
|
|
|
MikeRJ
|
| posted on 14/10/08 at 10:31 AM |
|
|
C20XE and 4AGE pretty much meet the requirements, Zetec doesn't.
|
|
|
JimSpencer
|
| posted on 14/10/08 at 12:13 PM |
|
|
Hi
Erm... What you planning on doing with it?
If any clubmans motorsport is even vaguely on the horizon (and it should be - if it isn't!) then take into account the 1.7 Litre class split
that is pretty much defacto in the entire hillclimb & sprint world..
So either go a bit under or a lot over
4age, Baby Zetec (puma engine), 1.6 duratec are the popular smaller choices
Or
Vauxhall Red Top for the larger ones
|
|
|
oldtimer
|
| posted on 14/10/08 at 01:53 PM |
|
|
Blacktop 4age: light; cheap; 160bhp; available.
|
|
|
bimbleuk
|
| posted on 14/10/08 at 03:21 PM |
|
|
The 4AGE 20V Silver/Blacktop are popular because they are compact, come with throttle bodies as standard and have lightened/balanced internals
(blacktop especially). So they rev well and give decent power for the size of engine.
However the RWD conversion kit cam be a bit pricey if you buy off the shelf. Also the engine is already tuned by Toyota so the potential is less than
others already mentioned.
I can tell how to get a good 250+ BHP quite easily from them but I'm using a Rotrex which could be applied to any of the other NA engines.
Still a good reliable bolt in and thrash engine!
|
|
|
NS Dev
|
| posted on 14/10/08 at 05:51 PM |
|
|
easy one, know I'm like a cracked record, but if you actually do ALL the maths, only the Vauxhall XE fits that set of circumstances.
The toyota is too expensive when you add the RWD conversion parts (excpting waiting 10 years for them to turn up on ebay as a bargain)
The Zetec won't make 190 hp unless you fit cams and get the pistons pocketed as well as all the usual other bits.
Vauxhall XE will make 200hp on standard cams, and completely untouched internals (though you'd be a fool not to spend £50 on a set of ARP conrod
bolts)
Fit a used MBE 956 ecu, which regularly come up on ebay for £180 or so, make the loom using the standard XE injection one, and fit either jenvey
throttle bodies (£400 new) or used bike ones, either is ok on £1500 budget, when the base engine, in perfect running condition, will only cost you
£200 tops, (buy a complete car with one in so you can test it before you buy, they are cheap! )
Bellhousing is £150 ish new and a sump about the same again, but I can advise of much cheaper alternatives on the sump front.
My complete installation below cost me around £850 including the ecu, loom, map on the ecu, throttle bodies, manifold etc etc etc
 
exhaust 2
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
|
|
|
MikeRJ
|
| posted on 14/10/08 at 06:03 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
Vauxhall XE will make 200hp on standard cams, and completely untouched internals (though you'd be a fool not to spend £50 on a set of ARP conrod
bolts)
Don't let Dave Baker (PumaRacing) see that, I mentioned this in a thread in PistonHeads and he was adamant that it simply wasn't feasable
and the max you'd ever see would be 170-180bhp without cams and head work. He also said a later Zetec would give around the same power as they
both have 33mm valves.
Blasphemy.
|
|
|
NS Dev
|
| posted on 14/10/08 at 06:47 PM |
|
|
Yea strange one that.
Dave Baker has been around for a long time and knows his stuff too.
I also would doubt it too unless I had seen the proof, several times, myself!
I know Dave Walker of Emerald cams was pretty sceptical until he saw the results too......for example he has run a few cars with SBD "208
kits" on them (208hp) and that's almost exactly what they made on his rollers.
My first XE was run on John Wilcox's rollers in Hinckley, and made 176hp @ wheels, so while the rundown could be innacurate, the 204ho @
flywheel was then verified by another set of rollers a year or so later at one of those "test days"
I have run two more engines since, and both made within a few hp the same numbers.
What John Wilcox DID say, is that the torque was not that well spread, despite the standard cams, the engine made a "power mountain not a power
curve" (his words not mine as far as I can remember them) and that with cams it could make a lot more lower down the rev range, strangely the
reverse of normal practise, but reflective of what I have seen from QED's cams on this engine.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
|
|
|
Volvorsport
|
| posted on 14/10/08 at 07:29 PM |
|
|
well , my ready made volvo 2.3 turbo makes 182hp from the factory with potential for 300+ on the std internals , and comes in RWD flavour to start
with .
the more modern whiteblocks are all aluminium .
the 3 litre 6 (RWD) is 204 hp from the get go .
5 cyl turbo 225,236, 250 hp etc etc
4cyl turbo 200 .
and after all they did win the BTCC with that engine , its no problem fitting an M90 gearbox to a whiteblock theyre just rare thats all .
the nasp 5 cyl 2.5 makes 170 hp std and with some throttle bodies , extra rpms and an exhaust can be near 230 hp .
same again for gearboxes tho , adapters do exist for proper getrags and type 9 ford , quaife etc .
just wanted to balance the thread up a little bit .
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
|
|
|
NS Dev
|
| posted on 14/10/08 at 09:29 PM |
|
|
.........and quite fair too!!
If I were building a turbo car, I think Volvo would be a good place to start
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
|
|
|
morgan
|
| posted on 14/10/08 at 10:27 PM |
|
|
well, thanks alot for all your info guys, i was looking at zetecs and duratecs as they are so easily found!
but the one problem i can see is that the coolant pipes end up running to the back of the engine bay.
can anyone tell me is this the same as the 4age and the xe. Only thing with the xe is cant find that many, anyone got any ideas of what cars the came
in as standard and i bet they have all had all the life beaten out of them.
the one plus of the 4age as far as i understand is that in Japan after 10 years of being on the road ALL cars have to undergo a very strict emission
test, which makes them readily available for import.
so looks like i need to research the XE further, so any more info would be great.
once again thanks to everyone for the comments and don't feel i have ruled out any of the above engines, just gathering info first!
cheers
morgan
|
|
|
bimbleuk
|
| posted on 15/10/08 at 07:29 AM |
|
|
There is a downside to the strict MOT system in Japan and that is because most people know they will have to change their car every 2 or 3 years they
generally skip regular servicing. So a lot of engines coming from Japan cut from ordinary cars like the 20V 4AGE are quite often very gunked up
inside. If you buy a complete car such as Evo's, Scoobies & Supras its more likely they were looked after by an entusiast though not to say
its hasn't been thrased all its life!
Back to the coolant layout of the 20V 4AGE which in my opinion is very easy to run neatly in a kit car engine bay. Essentially all the plumbing
converges in one place.
 
Original engine bay layout - side
|
|
|
