Board logo

Radiators
simon04 - 29/6/21 at 08:22 PM

Hi all,
Hope your all having a good summer so far with your kits.

Mines going well after the engine swap from xflow to zetec.

Now i have a concern about running temps.
Ive asked before what sort of temp the zetecs run at and the advise was about 90 95 deg.
Mine tends to sit at this most of the time but when i start using it a bit harder the gauge reads close to 100
it hasnt boiled over yet
My fan is always on but i think thats due to the old fan switch suiteing the x flow not zetec so that could be an easy fix
Using the std POLO radiator as most 7 type kit cars do
So do i go for the deeper 55mm g6polo rad or even the 70mm one??

Reading stuff on the net some say if you go to deep it can have a worse effect as the temp diff from front of rad to back is not as great due to the extra heat in the core from the extra cores

SO what do you all rekon.
Oh the rad has a shroud on it to guide all possible air from the nose cone into it
cheers

jester - 29/6/21 at 11:52 PM

Worth giving this guys a call. https://www.coolexperts.co.uk/product/westfield-many-kit-cars-all-aluminium-race-radiator/

My strikers fan was allways running. The car came with a tuned Xflow engine so a chat with the guys above a stoneleigh

last time it was on many years ago or feels like it

I ordered up a larger core radiator fit for the cars tuned engine plus some. I got it at a show price as well .

Then just waited for delivery

rusty nuts - 30/6/21 at 06:08 AM

Red line Water Wetter will lower the coolant temperature

snapper - 30/6/21 at 06:35 AM

Largest radiator you can fit, double core and more tubes across.
I don’t see that a thicker radiator is less efficient! Why would a manufacturer spend millions on testing to fit a bigger more expensive radiator that cools less? Sounds like a keyboard expert myth

CosKev3 - 30/6/21 at 07:17 AM

You need a rad upgrade,if the polo was say 1400cc you are now asking that rad to get rid of the heat created by a 2000cc engine!
A job it was never designed to handle.
It's rare to see a kit car running a standard polo rad these days,99% are running alloy thicker cores polo style rads.

quote:
Originally posted by snapper
Largest radiator you can fit, double core and more tubes across.
I don’t see that a thicker radiator is less efficient! Why would a manufacturer spend millions on testing to fit a bigger more expensive radiator that cools less? Sounds like a keyboard expert myth


They don't cool as well at lower speeds,due to the airflow being slowed down so much, and you need a more powerful fan to get air through the core.
People that have gone upto 70mm cores from 55mm cores in Westfields have seen this first hand.

cliftyhanger - 30/6/21 at 07:21 AM

quote:
Originally posted by snapper
Largest radiator you can fit, double core and more tubes across.
I don’t see that a thicker radiator is less efficient! Why would a manufacturer spend millions on testing to fit a bigger more expensive radiator that cools less? Sounds like a keyboard expert myth


I think the front tubes cool as much (maybe a tad less as there is more overall resistance to airflow through the core) and as you go through the rad the tubes become slightly less efficient as the air flowing over them is not as cold. But 5 tubes will be better than 3. 50%?

Also worth remembering an old rad will likely get a thin coat of crap inside, that will slow down the heat loss.

So yes, bigger rad, in any/all directions helps. As does shrouding the rad making sure air is flowing through rather than around. And fan efficiency is hugely improved by proper shrouds

40inches - 30/6/21 at 08:36 AM

I used one of these for the 3litre Jag V6, no problems even with the fan running the wrong direction.eBay Item
Description
Description

ttalps2000 - 30/6/21 at 08:55 AM

im running a standard polo rad on my zetec with 175hp and get no issues. Sits around 90 most of the time, even when driving it hard. The Zetec's are very fussy about the plumbing and makes a massive difference from my experience.

pigeondave - 30/6/21 at 09:33 AM

First thing I would do is make sure the air is going through the rad.

I have a Fury so slightly different (wider) but fit sealed sides (and a top) to the rad. This will ensure that the air is forced through the rad and not hit the rad and spill around the sides.

Second up I'd look at exit air.

I added a bit of correx (for sale sign) below the rad, its zip tied to the chassis. it projects 4" back from the rad. This seems to have improved the cooling massively.

I believe that it could be due to the air not being allowed to expand in the space directly behind the rad and so the air passing through the rad has somewhere to go, and not hit an air wall of expanding air behind the rad.

There's a bit of a write up on the JPSC
https://jpsc.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1878

I think we need to get away from having rads sat in free space and expect them to work. We need to ensure that there is a pressure differential across the rad to get them to work efficiently.

Or go for the biggest thickest one you can find

The issue i have now is the fan is crap, but as soon as I start moving temps drop like a stone. I'm taking high temps on tour.

Bet of luck with it all.

just for reference 2.0zetec good tune, VW sharon rad, cools too well now, thinking of going back to a polo, if i can get fan cooling right.

mcerd1 - 30/6/21 at 10:33 AM

quote:
Originally posted by pigeondave
First thing I would do is make sure the air is going through the rad.

I have a Fury so slightly different (wider) but fit sealed sides (and a top) to the rad. This will ensure that the air is forced through the rad and not hit the rad and spill around the sides.

Second up I'd look at exit air.

I added a bit of correx (for sale sign) below the rad, its zip tied to the chassis. it projects 4" back from the rad. This seems to have improved the cooling massively....

^^^ what he said - the biggest rad in the world won't help you if all theair is going around it
Westfield made ducted nose cones specifically to help with this



quote:
Originally posted by jester
Worth giving this guys a call. https://www.coolexperts.co.uk/product/westfield-many-kit-cars-all-aluminium-race-radiator/
My strikers fan was allways running. The car came with a tuned Xflow engine so a chat with the guys above a stoneleigh

^^ I think I'll be using thee guys soon too

Also remember that some sevens (like my dax) were originally designed to use the Mk1/2 Escort (/Cortina) copper rads - so the performance escort style ones could be just a s good a fit as the polo type and they are generally cheaper than the polo ones
https://www.coolexperts.co.uk/product/ford-escort-rs-2000-kit-car-pinto-engine-42mm-aluminium-radiator-british-made/

I've been discussing a custom made one with the coolex guys based on the escort type, just with the filler neck removed etc... just need to confirm a few sizes now

steve m - 30/6/21 at 11:41 AM

I used a Polo rad on my 1700 xflow maxd out as well, and the fan rarely came on, well it didnt after i switched the leads round on the fan, as it was blowing the wrong way !!

Mine wasnt fully shrouded, but close, but also the air coming out of the back of the rad needs to get out quickley, so if your car has a fully fitted floor etc, were is the heat going to escape to

SJ - 30/6/21 at 12:49 PM

There's something wrong with your setup because I have exactly the same and the only time the temp goes up is in traffic until the fan comes on. It never budges when I'm driving.

ttalps2000 - 30/6/21 at 02:21 PM

This is the setup i was advised to run:

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=211171

Never had a issue. Last time on the rollers it stayed steady at 98 degres on the ECU whilst held at 7k rpm

adithorp - 30/6/21 at 02:38 PM

Worth noting that in my Fury, I've a manual override switch on the fan and if I forget and leave it running when moving, it actually REDUCES the cooling.

ian locostzx9rc2 - 30/6/21 at 06:49 PM

I had cooling issues on trackdays with my Toyota 4age bought a coolex rad at stoneliegh show massive improvement reduced the temps by around 10degs

steve m - 30/6/21 at 06:58 PM

@Simon

I presume the engine you have in the car is tuned properly, and not running weak, ? as that will overheat an engine

what do the plugs look like, after a good thrash ?

simon04 - 30/6/21 at 07:57 PM

I've had a crazy thought.
Maybe the grid I have in the nose cone front is to dense thus reducing the amount of air.
I've taken a pic will try and get it in here and then you can see.

simon04 - 30/6/21 at 08:02 PM

OK the pics of the nose cone are in my photo album thing. How do I get them on here for you to see

simon04 - 30/6/21 at 08:04 PM

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/photos.php?action=showphoto&photo=20210630_182207.jpg

simon04 - 30/6/21 at 08:06 PM

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/photos.php?action=showphoto&photo=20210630_182227.jpg

steve m - 30/6/21 at 08:18 PM

That mesh does look restrictive, if nothing else works take it out and leave it off, and see ?

SJ - 1/7/21 at 12:21 PM

I'm slightly ashamed to say I have chicken wire on mine

The upside is that given it is only designed to stop foxes getting through it has no effect on airflow!

simon04 - 1/7/21 at 01:51 PM

Well I have been experimenting.
Took my plastic mesh off that's been there since day one of my build.
Drove it on my regular testing route
Not one bit of difference
Still runs at about 95 ish according to the etb water temp gauge.
The probe for which is mounted about 4 inches from the thermostat housing.
So........??

SJ - 1/7/21 at 03:51 PM

The probe for which is mounted about 4 inches from the thermostat housing.
So........??

Which side of the thermostat? I have a temp gauge in the pipe going to the rad top hose and another in the thermostat housing the other side of the thermostat.

The one in the pipe is always hotter until the car sits in traffic, gets hot and the thermostat opens fully. So is the car actually getitng hot?

simon04 - 1/7/21 at 06:40 PM

its on the outlet side of the thermostat housing
which is the top tube to the rad
i have a temp probe in the actual thermostat housing which is a ford part supplied by omex which feeds the omex 600
They read about 5 deg diff


On Another note back to the nose cone mesh...... When ive done some image searches and some kit car brand searches such as westfield , tiger,
Mk they all seem to run a mesh type unless you opt for the 7 logo type.

As removing the mesh didnt help with the cooling and made the car look as if it had something missing as now the nose just has one big nostril i think i shall put it back on as it must protect from stones striking the rad.

So the saga continues........

Dont get me wrong it doesnt go past 95 unless its really under load i.e. flat out 2 up up a steep long hill then it does get to 100 but once you ease off and run along gently it soon drops to 95 ish again.

I guess just coming from an old school xflow that use to run about 85 and when super hot may have touched 95 max its just odd running at 90 95 all the time.

ttalps2000 - 2/7/21 at 09:35 AM

i wouldnt worry about it! Does the OMEX sensor run less than the gauge one? The omex one will be more accurate by a long way!

simon04 - 11/7/21 at 05:20 PM

Hi
Yes you would think that but it wasnt the case.
I got a cup of boiling water put the omex supplied temp sender in it along with a thermometer and watched the read out on the laptop plugged into the omex 600.
It was quite away out so im glad to say the really helpful chap called Guy at omex talked me through how to recalibrate the map

Now for a dry day to go test.

simon04 - 11/7/21 at 05:32 PM

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/photos.php?action=showphoto&photo=20210707_133749.jpg

simon04 - 11/7/21 at 05:38 PM

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/galthumbs/20210707_133803.jpg