Help wanted,
Any one local to the Spalding ish area + 20 mile radius got a bare Jaguar Aj30 or/and a Ford Duratec 30 engine ?
I just want to see if my Rx8 adapter fits your engine. It does not fit my Ford engine 
well two bolts do.
It was cut specifically for the Aj30 and I have been told it fits. The Duratec 30 should be the same block as the jaguar ancillaries are even stamped
ford.
Here’s hoping
[Edited on 21/7/19 by big_wasa]
with the centring dowels removed I am still way off. I don’t see how I can get the first motion shaft centred.
[Edited on 21/7/19 by big_wasa]
I read your post on the RX8 box page..
Couldn’t Jonathon send you another to check, it looks like yours has moved during production, I can’t see the jag and ford blocks having such small
differences, all that would do is increase production costs..
Hi Pete,
I really can’t see how there is a difference between them either. I would think they where all built at the same plant.
Being laser cut I can’t see how there is a production error ? To be honest I would be surprised if there was more than one batch of these cut.
I could do with finding some one local to save the postage but thanks I will ask.
My love of these things has about run out.
I know the feeling, I acquired enough MT75 parts to build a 2wd box, and a mazda 6 speed which I’d agreed to sell, then some swine stole them,
presumably for scrap....
Do your engines have an intermediate splash plate? Getting (old of one of those would help.
I don’t remember this engine having one, the jag does.
quote:
Originally posted by r1_pete
Do your engines have an intermediate splash plate? Getting (old of one of those would help.
Cool, I recon thats a good step in the right direction, hope it works out...
Probably not help much, but here is a flipped photo of the Getrag box. The bolt holes seem to be the same, even the small ones around the starter.
I am with Pete on this one, such a small difference in manufacture wouldn't make sense.
Could the scaling during the laser cutting be off? Would only need a very small percentage, probably less than 1%?
It's not looking likely for a local engine so I would be grateful of the loan of your dust cover kev.
Thanks Warren
The one i bought fit the holes round the bellhousing but the starter motor was too close and jammed into the ring gear. Bought from same place as
yours
[Edited on 22/7/19 by RWD Focus]
Was that a jag or ford engine ?
I could happily live with just moving the starter but if I move the others I won’t know if the first motion shaft is centred.
[Edited on 22/7/19 by big_wasa]
Jag engine from an s type.
Im at Wakefield and the engine will be out again by the weekend. Your welcome to come over and try if it helps.
I had to oval the holes in the starter motor to get it working properly
CosKev yes that's what i will need to do. Also got to cut a big lump out of the bell housing to let the starter fit
Its odd they dont fit, mine fitted the Cosworth lump fine, just need to get an rx8 box now...
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
I had to oval the holes in the starter motor to get it working properly
Mr rwd, that’s a very generous offer and exactly what I am after, But nearer but thanks for the offer.
I’ve decided I am done with it. I’ve got to finish the exhausts as I have shed loads invested in them. I will then brake it up.
Cheers for the help guys
quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
Mr rwd, that’s a very generous offer and exactly what I am after, But nearer
I’ve decided I am done with it. I’ve got to finish the exhausts as I have shed loads invested in them. I will then brake it up.
Cheers for the help guys
I just thought I would add a follow up.
A big thank you to kev who sent me out the jag plate
It's a perfect fit with the near side dowel moved to the jag position. So with the exception of some of the bottom bolts in the fwd sump ( to be
expected ) the Ford and Jag engines are the same bolt pattern.
The fault is with the adapter plate and it's going back for assessment.
......UPDATE......
The adapter went back to Johnathan along with Kevs crap plate. He has then redrawn the plate in cad and had a fresh one recut and sent out to me this
week.
Result is it now fits and he also fixed the starter motor position so it doesn’t jam.
A big Thankyou to Kev and Johnathan.
quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
......UPDATE......
The adapter went back to Johnathan along with Kevs crap plate. He has then redrawn the plate in cad and had a fresh one recut and sent out to me this week.
Result is it now fits and he also fixed the starter motor position so it doesn’t jam.
A big Thankyou to Kev and Johnathan.
Ive contacted him about mine too
Have you cut the ring gear yet ?
Yes ive got the ring gear on the ST200 flywheel
Ok thanks.
I am working on an idea that doesn’t need the ring gear cutting.
I removed the ring gear from the Jag auto plate, machined the st200 flywheel, then sweated/shrunk the ring gear onto it. I will then get it lightened and balanced along with the crank etc
I couldn’t bring my self to cut the teeth off a new billet Ttv flywheel so I am working on an alternative.
I used a modified small Brise pinto starter onto the standard tvs flywheel (1188 if i remember correctly), in the normal/engine side of the flywheel.
Works perfectly 
Ian
quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
I couldn’t bring my self to cut the teeth off a new billet Ttv flywheel so I am working on an alternative.
I was cock sure when I started the project there would be something available due to the parts bin special nature of ford.
A chat with Ian gave me the reassurance I was after and the information that the v6 used the same pitch as the traditional ford 4 pots. Everything
from a pinto to a Focus Rs. The pinion is 10 tooth 25mm.
The jag is 11 tooth and 35mm dia.
The Ford and Jaguar starter motors are both made by ford. They are a planetary style starter and have the same through out. The only difference is the
mounting lugs and the pinion. The ford st170/Zetec pinion and bendix swap straight over.
So you now have a starter with the correct pinion and through and fit it’s just 4.25mm short of reaching the flywheel. There is space to get it to the
flywheel but there isn’t a lot of space between it and the block.
Options.
1) plug weld the plate and move the holes 4.25mm
2) get a brise starter motor like Ian and make a custom front plate.
3) Persuade Johnathan to cut one with the holes moved 4.25mm
I wanted to test it first before sharing. But with the holes moved it would be a simple bolt together job. No cutting, turning or welding needed.
New plate.
Starter motors
Solid flywheel, hybrid starter and thre gap.
Thanks for that.
Update on my plate, i spoke to Jonathon and he is sending me a new modified plate out. Brilliant customer service.
Johnathan asked me for a little more feedback so another Saturday afternoon on the Duratec 30.
So I measured, measured some more and measured again.
With the smaller pinion there is a 5mm gap. You need 0.75mm. So I made up a jig. Plug welded the plate and re-drilled the plate 4.25mm inwards.
Fitted it up and it works fine with the old Mondeo single mass flywheel and the Ttv St220 flywheel.
https://youtu.be/l01vP9_wnm4
[Edited on 12/10/19 by big_wasa]
Excellent work
If the plates come with the holes to make that work it saves alot of hassle!
I agree.
Having spoken to Johnathan I think there was 6 original plates sold over The last two years. Mines gone back, Rwd Focus, Sam doesn’t think his is
correct. I think Johnathan has had five new ones cut. Can’t see him changing it until the balance has gone. I know the loss on the first batch has
made him wince.
I think It will come down to demand and I think more would have sold if it was just a bolt together solution.
Ive posted it all on his Fb age.
[Edited on 13/10/19 by big_wasa]
quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
Help wanted,
Any one local to the Spalding ish area + 20 mile radius got a bare Jaguar Aj30 or/and a Ford Duratec 30 engine ?
I just want to see if my Rx8 adapter fits your engine. It does not fit my Ford engine
It was cut specifically for the Aj30 and I have been told it fits. The Duratec 30 should be the same block as the jaguar ancillaries are even stamped ford.
Here’s hoping
[Edited on 21/7/19 by big_wasa]
quote:
Originally posted by andygtt
quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
Help wanted,
Any one local to the Spalding ish area + 20 mile radius got a bare Jaguar Aj30 or/and a Ford Duratec 30 engine ?
I just want to see if my Rx8 adapter fits your engine. It does not fit my Ford engine
It was cut specifically for the Aj30 and I have been told it fits. The Duratec 30 should be the same block as the jaguar ancillaries are even stamped ford.
Here’s hoping
[Edited on 21/7/19 by big_wasa]
Im sure you know the answer by now as Im late to this thread, however the AJ30 and the ST220 block is the same item, as is the crank etc... it's the heads that are different between the variants.
I and many of my fellow Noble friends have used Jag engines in our car (the 3.0L noble used an ST220 engine) as there was a cheap supply of brand new jag units a few years back.. we used the 'Jag' block, crank and oil pump and swopped out rod pistons and heads onto it.
Shame I didn't see this earlier as I have a number of both engines in my lockup.
Any reason you didn't want to use the S type manual box? I bought a complete engine with one and it looks a nice compact 5 speed unit.
Yes the adapter was out but it was changed with out argument even though I had had it over 18 months.
I did think of fitting the Duratec 30 into an Rx8 and the Rx8 box would save no end of work.
The Rx8 5spd is cheap and plentiful with a nicer change and better ratios. It’s not particularly light.
The Getrag has an odd first motion shaft size so flywheel choice is very limited, ie standard jag dual mass or Ttv do a single mass flywheel with a
180mm “Race” clutch. Any others ? But the ford flywheel uses the standard 240mm 1” 23 spline for front and rwd so it’s just mix and match.
Ive spoken to Jonathon and he is sending me out a modified corrected plate without issue
quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
quote:
Originally posted by andygtt
quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
Help wanted,
Any one local to the Spalding ish area + 20 mile radius got a bare Jaguar Aj30 or/and a Ford Duratec 30 engine ?
I just want to see if my Rx8 adapter fits your engine. It does not fit my Ford engine
It was cut specifically for the Aj30 and I have been told it fits. The Duratec 30 should be the same block as the jaguar ancillaries are even stamped ford.
Here’s hoping
[Edited on 21/7/19 by big_wasa]
Im sure you know the answer by now as Im late to this thread, however the AJ30 and the ST220 block is the same item, as is the crank etc... it's the heads that are different between the variants.
I and many of my fellow Noble friends have used Jag engines in our car (the 3.0L noble used an ST220 engine) as there was a cheap supply of brand new jag units a few years back.. we used the 'Jag' block, crank and oil pump and swopped out rod pistons and heads onto it.
Shame I didn't see this earlier as I have a number of both engines in my lockup.
Any reason you didn't want to use the S type manual box? I bought a complete engine with one and it looks a nice compact 5 speed unit.
I used the Getrag box small and light, just over 35 kilo, it feels like a very strong box , but you can't rush the change.
I had a MR2 Turbo some years back, and it reminds me of that box.
Fine for cruising and the odd track day.
Description
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
quote:
Originally posted by andygtt
quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
Help wanted,
Any one local to the Spalding ish area + 20 mile radius got a bare Jaguar Aj30 or/and a Ford Duratec 30 engine ?
I just want to see if my Rx8 adapter fits your engine. It does not fit my Ford engine
It was cut specifically for the Aj30 and I have been told it fits. The Duratec 30 should be the same block as the jaguar ancillaries are even stamped ford.
Here’s hoping
[Edited on 21/7/19 by big_wasa]
Im sure you know the answer by now as Im late to this thread, however the AJ30 and the ST220 block is the same item, as is the crank etc... it's the heads that are different between the variants.
I and many of my fellow Noble friends have used Jag engines in our car (the 3.0L noble used an ST220 engine) as there was a cheap supply of brand new jag units a few years back.. we used the 'Jag' block, crank and oil pump and swopped out rod pistons and heads onto it.
Shame I didn't see this earlier as I have a number of both engines in my lockup.
Any reason you didn't want to use the S type manual box? I bought a complete engine with one and it looks a nice compact 5 speed unit.
I used the Getrag box small and light, just over 35 kilo, it feels like a very strong box , but you can't rush the change.
I had a MR2 Turbo some years back, and it reminds me of that box.
Fine for cruising and the odd track day.
Description
What ratio diff are you running?
I thought the Jag box was 1:1 in fifth gear,so that's same as a Type9's fourth gear?
quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
quote:
Originally posted by andygtt
quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
Help wanted,
Any one local to the Spalding ish area + 20 mile radius got a bare Jaguar Aj30 or/and a Ford Duratec 30 engine ?
I just want to see if my Rx8 adapter fits your engine. It does not fit my Ford engine
It was cut specifically for the Aj30 and I have been told it fits. The Duratec 30 should be the same block as the jaguar ancillaries are even stamped ford.
Here’s hoping
[Edited on 21/7/19 by big_wasa]
Im sure you know the answer by now as Im late to this thread, however the AJ30 and the ST220 block is the same item, as is the crank etc... it's the heads that are different between the variants.
I and many of my fellow Noble friends have used Jag engines in our car (the 3.0L noble used an ST220 engine) as there was a cheap supply of brand new jag units a few years back.. we used the 'Jag' block, crank and oil pump and swopped out rod pistons and heads onto it.
Shame I didn't see this earlier as I have a number of both engines in my lockup.
Any reason you didn't want to use the S type manual box? I bought a complete engine with one and it looks a nice compact 5 speed unit.
I used the Getrag box small and light, just over 35 kilo, it feels like a very strong box , but you can't rush the change.
I had a MR2 Turbo some years back, and it reminds me of that box.
Fine for cruising and the odd track day.
Description
What ratio diff are you running?
I thought the Jag box was 1:1 in fifth gear,so that's same as a Type9's fourth gear?
Diff ratio is 3.2:1 that gives about 145ish MPH in top @ 7200 RPM.
I had a 3.6 diff in at first, the acceleration was mental
I bought my adaptor plate back in March last year and found it needed a whole bunch of holes moving.
So Jonathon has made a new plate? It works properly? My existing one is useless.
I did say to him last year that is was offset but he didn't have a solution then.
Is it worth me asking for a replacement?
Nev
Yes he has redrawn the plate.
Yes he replaced mine.
Yes it fits. One hole was a little tight, top right looking at the flywheel. No I haven't had a box in it to check that side if things.
He had told me there where six of the original batch out there
Me, kev, Richard on here. I've spoken to another guy on fb that makes you number five.
I would contact him, as you say it's bugger all use if it doesn't fit.
Cheers Warren
Thanks for that.
Contacted him.
As long as i show photos of the original cut up he will replace it.
Seems Fair enough to me.
Cheers
No problem.
I have no doubt it will have hit him in the pocket but I am more concerned that he sold six with out more thorough testing.
My replacement adapter plate arrived today as promised from Jonathon. Fits perfect. Great customer service.
Yep really can’t fault him for that. Again thanks to Kev for his dust plate that made it possible.
hi, i think i am no 6. do you know if the plate guy will still change the plate, and is their a contact no for him ??cheers mike
quote:
Originally posted by MootchA
hi, i think i am no 6. do you know if the plate guy will still change the plate, and is their a contact no for him ??cheers mike
facebook....yes, sort of, is that the best contact ?...i will have a look there.
many thanks
Yeah hes got a page on there you can message him off
Rx8 gearbox adapters
https://m.facebook.com/groups/1779024555682316/?ref=group_header&view=group
[Edited on 2/1/20 by CosKev3]
thanks kev,
i have sent him a message, so hopefully he will change the plate
mike
Let us know how you get on.
[Edited on 4/1/20 by big_wasa]
well i messaged johnathan, he said he would replace the plate, i have to show the plate cut up, with a newspaper next to it for the date, he will then
send a new revised plate out.
can't really ask for me than that, thanks for the advice etc.
mike
Which injectors are better to use? Jaguar AJ30 green ones or ST220 Blue ones? Anyone know?
Thank you
I don't know the flows for the Jag version but the ST220 are 24lb at 4.5bar. On a standard engine with a decent air intake and exhaust
manifolds/system (no cats..) i found them a bit marginal with heading near 90% duty with a 12.5 Afr at WOT.
If your going for more power or a turbo 
then Bosch 0280156127 fit straight in (on an St220 intake/rail any way) and are 42lb at 3 bar. I've
been running them in a standard engine for a while whilst gathering parts/building a turbo engine and with a half reasonable ecu idling at 14.7 afr /
lambda 1 is rock solid, no problems at all.
Ian
I used the standard Green Jaguar injectors, have around 15% headroom.
After VVT adjustment
Thank you for the replies
Quick google shows the jag injectors are 24lb/260cc at 3 bar. So at the cars original pressure (3bar on the Jag, 4.5bar on the st220) they're
basically running the same flow. Of course the jag injectors have a larger window for the pressure to be turned up to get a bit more though.
Any thoughts of boost will very quickly run out of fuel with ether set of injectors.
Ian
If you turbo the engine make sure you fit oil squirters... in fact internally all you need is oil squirters and shorter forged rods, the cast pistons
have proved reliable to 500bhp!
Siemens make an injector thats a direct fit and good for any power you might ever need.... but there are of cause Greens available that can go to just
over 400bhp and were fitted to stock nobles.
quote:
Originally posted by andygtt
If you turbo the engine make sure you fit oil squirters... in fact internally all you need is oil squirters and shorter forged rods, the cast pistons have proved reliable to 500bhp!
Siemens make an injector thats a direct fit and good for any power you might ever need.... but there are of cause Greens available that can go to just over 400bhp and were fitted to stock nobles.
Mine won't be getting turbo fitted.
quote:
Originally posted by RWD Focus
Mine won't be getting turbo fitted.
I'm using Bosch injectors from a Mustang,6 hole more modern injector than the 4 hole originals.
Will see if I can find specs,pretty sure they can supply plenty of fuel for a charged engine.
Picked them up for just over £100 for set of six that had only been used for testing.
https://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/product_info.php/products_id/4468
They are the type of injectors needed to fit in a Jag AJ30 injection set up.
Different type of injector to a ST220 injection set up.
quote:
Originally posted by Oddified
quote:
Originally posted by RWD Focus
Mine won't be getting turbo fitted.
You never know, you might get the itch after a while! lol
Ian
... I also recommend single turbo, back to back testing on a hub dyne with the identical
internals the twins made 100bhp less than my single.
forgot to add, these engines run very high EGT when turbocharged... Nobles crack manifolds etc because of it, so plan to manage that with quality of
materials etc.
I run inconal manifolds and on low boost of 0.6bar I see 900 deg c EGT... more on high boost.
quote:
Originally posted by andygtt
forgot to add, these engines run very high EGT when turbocharged... Nobles crack manifolds etc because of it, so plan to manage that with quality of materials etc.
I run inconal manifolds and on low boost of 0.6bar I see 900 deg c EGT... more on high boost.
twin scroll borg warner... I was running a float bearing 9180 but am going to a 'smaller' EFR9176 which actually flows potentially 200bhp
more than the old one (the exhaust AR is quite a bit larger to compensate for the smaller turbine).
engine wise inlet manifold was a restriction on power on my last engine... going ITB's and a custom plenum to remove the restriction.
Is that T3 or T4 flange?
Been told by a turbo supplier that twin scroll on a V6 is a waste of money,twin wastegates etc,unless the manifolds are equal in length?
So having the turbo on one side of the engine twin scroll is no advantage?
Have you ever used a single scroll?
I haven't used a single scroll, but let me guess that it was a Garret supplier as garret don't do a twin scroll in the relevant size for my
V6.
I believe it makes a significant difference, so much so that I wouldn't even consider a single scroll even though they are cheaper. its to stop
scavenge from each bank which can occur regardless of manifold being equal length or not.
I run the turbo one side of the engine so the other banks exhaust goes a lot further under the car... despite this is spools incredibly well, much
less lag than when it had tiny twin turbos on it.
quote:
Originally posted by andygtt
I haven't used a single scroll, but let me guess that it was a Garret supplier as garret don't do a twin scroll in the relevant size for my V6.
I believe it makes a significant difference, so much so that I wouldn't even consider a single scroll even though they are cheaper. its to stop scavenge from each bank which can occur regardless of manifold being equal length or not.
I run the turbo one side of the engine so the other banks exhaust goes a lot further under the car... despite this is spools incredibly well, much less lag than when it had tiny twin turbos on it.
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
quote:
Originally posted by andygtt
I haven't used a single scroll, but let me guess that it was a Garret supplier as garret don't do a twin scroll in the relevant size for my V6.
I believe it makes a significant difference, so much so that I wouldn't even consider a single scroll even though they are cheaper. its to stop scavenge from each bank which can occur regardless of manifold being equal length or not.
I run the turbo one side of the engine so the other banks exhaust goes a lot further under the car... despite this is spools incredibly well, much less lag than when it had tiny twin turbos on it.
Thanks.
No TBF it's a Borg Warner/Holset supplier.
They said equal length headers is a must for twin scroll to be worth while .
quote:
Originally posted by andygtt
quote:
Originally posted by Oddified
quote:
Originally posted by RWD Focus
Mine won't be getting turbo fitted.
You never know, you might get the itch after a while! lol
Ian
especially when you find the engines are good for over 700bhp reliably turbo'd
a light flow of the head is highly recommended, allows the much more power at less boost, stock noble runs 0.7bar for 352bhp... my engine made 480bhp on low boost 0.6bar.... I had flowed heads and cams and I don't think the cams add anything significant, so much so that my latest low power engine i'm trying it with flowed heads and stock cams and im still targeting over 750bhp with this spec engine.
Upgraded valve strings can be bought from Piper... or any reputable noble specialist such as Mountune.
Sounds like you have been collecting all the right bits
quote:
Originally posted by andygtt
quote:
Originally posted by Oddified
quote:
Originally posted by RWD Focus
Mine won't be getting turbo fitted.
You never know, you might get the itch after a while! lol
Ian
especially when you find the engines are good for over 700bhp reliably turbo'd
a light flow of the head is highly recommended, allows the much more power at less boost, stock noble runs 0.7bar for 352bhp... my engine made 480bhp on low boost 0.6bar.... I had flowed heads and cams and I don't think the cams add anything significant, so much so that my latest low power engine i'm trying it with flowed heads and stock cams and im still targeting over 750bhp with this spec engine.
Upgraded valve strings can be bought from Piper... or any reputable noble specialist such as Mountune.
Sounds like you have been collecting all the right bits
A really tidy St.
I left mine sitting for so long so it wasn’t worth bringing back up to scratch
Looks a lovely build. Ive always changed my cars at 12 - 24 month intervals but the only one I kept longer and the one I always regretted selling was
my perf blue st220. Did a lot of work to get it immaculate and then sold it
I really dont know why it got under my skin so much, but it could just do everything brilliantly.
quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
Looks a lovely build. Ive always changed my cars at 12 - 24 month intervals but the only one I kept longer and the one I always regretted selling was my perf blue st220. Did a lot of work to get it immaculate and then sold it
I really dont know why it got under my skin so much, but it could just do everything brilliantly.
Id consider larger turbos than that based on your power goals, 25's will get to around 550bhp, you wont go past 600 with them.
the GT28's will go to 700bhp... but id consider a single turbo as you chioce of turbo then opens up significantly and you can better match the
compressor maps. The BW turbo I ran before would easy do 750bhp and go to 8000rpm plus it spooled very linear and gave a huge power band... all for
less than £1k.
Probably easier to package a single turbo in a ST220 as well
[Edited on 4/8/20 by andygtt]
quote:
Originally posted by andygtt
Id consider larger turbos than that based on your power goals, 25's will get to around 550bhp, you wont go past 600 with them.
the GT28's will go to 700bhp... but id consider a single turbo as you chioce of turbo then opens up significantly and you can better match the compressor maps. The BW turbo I ran before would easy do 750bhp and go to 8000rpm plus it spooled very linear and gave a huge power band... all for less than £1k.
Probably easier to package a single turbo in a ST220 as well
[Edited on 4/8/20 by andygtt]
quote:
Originally posted by mondeoST220
quote:
Originally posted by andygtt
Id consider larger turbos than that based on your power goals, 25's will get to around 550bhp, you wont go past 600 with them.
the GT28's will go to 700bhp... but id consider a single turbo as you chioce of turbo then opens up significantly and you can better match the compressor maps. The BW turbo I ran before would easy do 750bhp and go to 8000rpm plus it spooled very linear and gave a huge power band... all for less than £1k.
Probably easier to package a single turbo in a ST220 as well
[Edited on 4/8/20 by andygtt]
The engine is a 3L V6 which means 550 BHP per 1.5L bank, and with them being small, they spool early.
I'm trying to get more performance at all ranges, im even thinking of installing 2 x turbosmart ALV40's
A pair of GT25's will do 550bhp absolute max not each, I've seen them on a lot of nobles.
There is a lot of choice for singles that will do 3.0L (thousands of 5-7L V8s with twin turbos), as long as you go divided housing there is no
advantage to twins... a properly spec'd single will spool earlier than GT25's if that's what you really want.... My car used to be a
600bhp twin 28 turbos, i then developed the single turbo to improve it.
I've seen you mention 8000rpm target on you FB page and mention 740bhp.... thats pretty much what i used to run, it made monster torque low down
and made more power than a stock ST220 everywhere even off boost, it wasn't a laggy underivable monster.
Even though i run a single turbo, i actually run two tial 40mm external wastegates as i have a divided housing.
[Edited on 4/8/20 by andygtt]
quote:
Originally posted by andygtt
I've seen you mention 8000rpm target on you FB page and mention 740bhp.... thats pretty much what i used to run,
[Edited on 4/8/20 by andygtt]
The devided intake is another option ive been considering, I was thinking of having a billet system made to the spec, but thats in another couple of years, for now its the AWD thats giving headaches
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
quote:
Originally posted by andygtt
I've seen you mention 8000rpm target on you FB page and mention 740bhp.... thats pretty much what i used to run,
[Edited on 4/8/20 by andygtt]
What crank pulley do you run,and what size alternator pulley please?
My alternator is currently pushed near its max RPM at 7100rpm rev limit,so looking for info on allowing me to run higher RPM on my new engine,thanks
quote:
Originally posted by andygtt
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
quote:
Originally posted by andygtt
I've seen you mention 8000rpm target on you FB page and mention 740bhp.... thats pretty much what i used to run,
[Edited on 4/8/20 by andygtt]
What crank pulley do you run,and what size alternator pulley please?
My alternator is currently pushed near its max RPM at 7100rpm rev limit,so looking for info on allowing me to run higher RPM on my new engine,thanks
You can buy an under drive pulley from TTV, in fact i ordered a spare one yesterday
the noble alternator is 73mm with the crank pulley being 165mm, it used to kill the alternators at 7000rpm (15800rpm) hence the under drive pulley was developed.
Im actually moving across to a new more modern Jag alternator that's also more readily available and thus cheaper (I also have two brand new units so made sense)... its designed to run a lot higher rpm (18000rpm stock) so the pulley is only 63mm... I've been redesigning the belt in the last few weeks.... with the under drive crank pulley i can rev the engine to 9000rpm without killing the alternator.
If your using the Jag then whilst it will fit I think it will out the belt out of alignment (5mm or so closer to the engine), ive managed to use it on
the Jag purely as I moved all the aux to suit my mondeo crank pulley.
They don't list one for the Jag so best to ask them.... The mondeo one is around £185.
quote:
Originally posted by andygtt
If your using the Jag then whilst it will fit I think it will out the belt out of alignment (5mm or so closer to the engine), ive managed to use it on the Jag purely as I moved all the aux to suit my mondeo crank pulley.
They don't list one for the Jag so best to ask them.... The mondeo one is around £185.
I used a 75amp Denso alternator. only around 25mm larger dia. than the 40anp
Description
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
quote:
Originally posted by andygtt
I've seen you mention 8000rpm target on you FB page and mention 740bhp.... thats pretty much what i used to run,
[Edited on 4/8/20 by andygtt]
What crank pulley do you run,and what size alternator pulley please?
My alternator is currently pushed near its max RPM at 7100rpm rev limit,so looking for info on allowing me to run higher RPM on my new engine,thanks
quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
I used a 75amp Denso alternator. only around 25mm larger dia. than the 40anp
Description
quote:
Originally posted by mondeoST220
Remember your not constantly running at 8k unless your a track car so the odd time you do go over the limit won't make any difference as the Alternator won't have time to overheat.
I use the St220 alternator, but i removed the 'smart' reg and wired in/converted it to an external conventional alternator reg. It's
been round to 7500rpm many many times , no issues so far on standard pulleys.
I left the alternator in the standard position, but everything else is removed from the front of the engine so there's just a short belt from the
crank straight to the alternator with an idler/tensioner half way.
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
I used a 75amp Denso alternator. only around 25mm larger dia. than the 40anp
Description
Yeah that's what I'm going to go for over winter
I've got a piece of chassis I need to modify though to get that in that I added when I turboed the R1 engine,hence only fitting the tiny Denso.
Can you remember what it came off?
quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
I used a 75amp Denso alternator. only around 25mm larger dia. than the 40anp
Description
Yeah that's what I'm going to go for over winter
I've got a piece of chassis I need to modify though to get that in that I added when I turboed the R1 engine,hence only fitting the tiny Denso.
Can you remember what it came off?
It was from a 2007 Daihatsu Terios 1.5 Petrol, second hand ones are around £40-£50.
You need to check the output, some had a 50amp alternator.
I would message starterman on here for a new one?
quote:
Originally posted by andygtt
If your using the Jag then whilst it will fit I think it will out the belt out of alignment (5mm or so closer to the engine), ive managed to use it on the Jag purely as I moved all the aux to suit my mondeo crank pulley.
They don't list one for the Jag so best to ask them.... The mondeo one is around £185.
130mm, but It sounds like it’s going to cause you issues at idle as it drops the ratio Quite a bit
quote:
Originally posted by andygtt
130mm, but It sounds like it’s going to cause you issues at idle as it drops the ratio Quite a bit
Although this thread has moved away from its origins and gone to turbo AJ30's . I am fitting my AJ30/RX8 combination into a MGB. Out of interest the 65mm (actually more like 67mm) from a late 90's Mustang GT or Crown Victoria fits perfectly on a ST200 manifold, even the TPS plug is the same and I got mine from a very low mileage car for the princely sum of £25 including shipping from the USA!
A bit of thread resurrection!
I've managed to get the AJ30 into the engine bay, but I can't see any way of getting an alternator attached. It it possible to rotate it 180
degrees and have it hanging off the front of the engine? Anyone seen that before? I think that may be my only option unless I get into modifying the
chassis right next to the front suspension.
Also I'm going to need a smaller / remote clutch master cylinder. Any bright ideas for a good small one?
Thanks all!
Any pics ?
I am collecting bits to get back on with mine. I've picked up a 60a Denso styled unit from starterman. I was thinking it would go passenger side
below the exhaust.
I fitted mine where the AC pump would fit, a 40amp Denso would be smaller.
Description
Yeah mines passenger side similar position to pic above but tighter to the block as I've fitted a full size altenator now off a V6 Freelander as
my EWP max draw is 36amps and my fan 20amps.
I wouldn't fit a 40amp small Denso one,I struggled with idle voltage last year before I upgraded my EWP and fan.
It would just about maintain 12volts in standing traffic with fan on but if you put headlights on it wouldn't maintain 12volts.
Output is noted, thank you. I will make sure I get one which is big enough.
These pictures should help explain the issue. It is difficult to explain with photos, but the passenger side mounts are obscured by chassis and the
belt routing would be a nightmare. There is room at the front, but presumably the alternator would rotate the opposite direction and brackets may be
a sod.
Alternator location
Alternator location 3
Chassis is loads different to the old one!
That angled brace bar will need removing by the looks of it,and rework the brace once you've got a alternator mounted.
You realise you've got the later engine there with the more complicated VVT?
Early ones just had a solenoid to advance the inlet cams,which is easily controllable by a output from any ECU.
Yours will need a ECU with proper VVT control from what I've seen
Yes, I worked out that it was CVVT after I bought it. I have some ideas for ECUs, if not I understand that it is possible to remove. Alternatively I
will get a different engine.
I am reluctant to do too much chopping of the chassis, especially close to the suspension mounts. Do you think hanging the alternator out the front
won't work?
I am mounting a second crank pulley in front of the original, this will enable me to have the alternator up high and the belt forward enough to clear
the cylinder heads. I have bought a Mazda Tribute pulley (same engine as the Jaguar, but most USA built duratec V6's had them)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324073458342?hash=item4b74488aa6:g:JbAAAOSw-a5eR4HZ which has a threaded hole in each of the three spokes. I will attach
one of these to a spacer between the two pulleys
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313368011865?hash=item48f6306459%3Ag%3A0LgAAOSwxwdf8b2%7E&LH_ItemCondition=3
Mounting the alternator as you suggest will work and the only downside is that the cooling fan will be running backwards. Nearly all Honda engines
until around 2003 (depending on car model) had engines that rotated anti clockwise, one of those alternators would actually be running in the correct
rotation.
Totally separate to the subject is this question, when using one of Freddy's adapters which has been modified to take a zetec starter motor and
a Mondeo ST220 flywheel how much needs to be machined off the RX8 bellhousing to get the clutch mating distance correct? I have heard 14mm and also
just the thickness of the adapter plate.
Thank you, I will look into Honda Alternators. I will also see if I can flip the cooling fan for the alternator I have as that would be a simple
option.
Regarding the adapter plate issue mine is not yet with me, but I am interested in the answer!
quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
I fitted mine where the AC pump would fit, a 40amp Denso would be smaller.
Description
I've taken 10mm off my bell housing,the size of the adapter plate,and mines working perfectly.
10mm leaves plenty of thread left to bolt a Mazda6 clutch slave cylinder on,if you take 14mm off the bell housing you have much less of the bolt hole
left.
quote:
Originally posted by Partofthechaos
Output is noted, thank you. I will make sure I get one which is big enough.
These pictures should help explain the issue. It is difficult to explain with photos, but the passenger side mounts are obscured by chassis and the belt routing would be a nightmare. There is room at the front, but presumably the alternator would rotate the opposite direction and brackets may be a sod.
Alternator location
Alternator location 3
I think it is fine, with the exception of the alternator cooling fan which would be suboptimal. I will see if I can flip it round on the one I have. If that works then I need to make sure it is mounted rigidly enough, then all should be fine. Will just look a bit weird, that's all.
Not the Ford or Jaguar engine but a Vauxhall V6 in a MGB, if you look at the photos on posting #15 you will see how Ian Cass overcame the same problem on a MGB, I have not re read it but I think he used a normal rotation alternator. The only issue is heat dissipation and if its in a cool airflow there should be no problems.
Thank you!
Sorry, maybe I am being dim, which is post #15?
[Edited on 13/6/21 by Partofthechaos]
What alternator are you trying to run backwards?
I was planning to use the one I have, which is from the MX5, an earlier one which is self regulated rather than the later ones which is ecu
regulated.
[Edited on 13/6/21 by Partofthechaos]
Ive found another difference with the CVVT engine that I didn't know about (or had forgotten). Half of the passenger side cam cover is taller so
the inlet manifold solution that you all have worked out won't work without a thicker adapter plate. Accommodating this under the bonnet with
drop the sum a bit further out of the bottom of the car and it is all ready quite low.
I'm getting close to needing another engine I think. Which is a pain! :-( Anyone want to swap?
I was equally surprised, fitting the AJV6 engine into an MGB is a tight squeeze height wise, originally I had bought a scrap engine and although I knew it was the CVVT type due to the four pin cops I did not realise the oil filler was so much higher than on the earlier engine. I was having the same problem of a bulge in the bonnet or very low ground clearance, neither of which is what I wanted. Since I have a scrap engine fitted temporarily into a scrap rubber bumper car which is fifteen miles from home and I have an early engine going into a chrome bumper car which is at home I continually got confused regarding the dimensions. Especially since the later cars have different panels under the bonnet to accommodate V8 engines also a different cross member which gives less height availability. Engine swaps are such fun.
I've never looked at a later engine in the flesh, stick with what you know is the reason I've always bought early engines
Is anyone able to confirm that the engines are identical regardless of their previous connection to a manual or automatic 'box? Think I need an older one...
quote:
Originally posted by Partofthechaos
Is anyone able to confirm that the engines are identical regardless of their previous connection to a manual or automatic 'box? Think I need an older one...
That's what I was expecting, thanks.
Block is the same, sumps and heads are different.
quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
Block is the same, sumps and heads are different.
I was thinking jag v ford rather than auto v manual.
It only bloody fits! :-D
Engine Fits
It is tight though...
Gearbox tight
Current head scratchers to sort (any ideas?):
Clutch master cylinder needs to be 90mm max, current one is too long
Reverse switch on the gearbox can't be installed as the 'box is hard up against the chassis
Ground clearance is about 50mm
Once I have nailed those I can move onto engine mounts, exhaust, clutch, flywheel (and compatibility with the starter), engine management, prop shaft,
oil filter and inlet manifold spacers. Then the engine swap aspect is complete and I can continue building the car!
That’s made me smile
Re the slave, what about a concentric slave in the bell housing ?
Re the reverse, if it’s registered and doesn’t have one fitted you don’t need one. But I didn’t think the switch stood out that much.
I hope to get back on with mine at the end of the month. Just trying to get the car more ready to take it.
Try the mazda 6 slave cylinder, cheap and cheerful;
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/113323593379?fits=Model%3AMazda6&hash=item1a629ccea3:g:Yr4AAOSwsD1bzXGX
It's the master cylinder which is too long, not even thought about the slave yet!
The reverse switch isn't massive, but still too big for the current location, I will get a picture tomorrow to explain. Unfortunately it still
needs to be IVAed. Think the chassis may need some adjustment.
quote:
Originally posted by Partofthechaos
It's the master cylinder which is too long, not even thought about the slave yet!
The reverse switch isn't massive, but still too big for the current location, I will get a picture tomorrow to explain. Unfortunately it still needs to be IVAed. Think the chassis may need some adjustment.
Depending on how tall you are what about a top mount pedal box ?
Yes, that would work better. The current one was an extra and recommended as an upgrade, so if I can use it it would be preforable. Maybe I could flip it round...
I used a Pendulum clutch pedal from obp, works very well.
Description
Description
^^ yep that's the sort of thing I meant. ^^
Ooh, that looks funky! The current pedal box is obp so compatability is possible. When I spoke to them all they could say was that I should take advice from my garage. I tried explaining that I was my garage, but they couldn't work it out. I will see if I can find an obp catalogue.
Just checked and the OBP pedal is now twice the price that I paid
This one looks good? https://www.rallydesign.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=23085
quote:
Originally posted by Partofthechaos
Ooh, that looks funky! The current pedal box is obp so compatability is possible. When I spoke to them all they could say was that I should take advice from my garage. I tried explaining that I was my garage, but they couldn't work it out. I will see if I can find an obp catalogue.
I thought I was talking to obp, but it was via email, might get a better response by phone.