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Zetec 2.0 oil breather spitting oil

ProjectSi - 19/8/15 at 09:45 AM

I've finally finished the build on my Si. I've come here as I've seen a lot of members know their stuff with the Zetec engine. I have owned a built a 2.0 Fiesta before hand, used oil like it did fuel but the new one is leaking oil badly from the cam cover breather. The engine was allegedly rebuilt 8k ago, I've inspected cylinder head and it's clean as a whistle, as Is the oil, as if it's just come from the factory. The engine has supposedly had a bottom end over haul and cylinder head skim. New pistons, rings and conrods. The oil is being lost via the cam cover breather and coupled with the loss I can hear a gurgling sound, I don't really fancy leaving a trail of oil all over the road for everyone so until I've come to a solution it won't be going anywhere. Anyone experienced this before and have a good solution? I've heard about catch tanks, what are they and how do they work? Do they return the oil for you?
Thanks for the help.

Charlie_Zetec - 19/8/15 at 11:33 AM

Zetecs originally had a breather system that connected the rocker cover, bottom end and inlet manifold I believe. Most block off the 3-bolt opening on the bottom end with a plate, and have the rocker breather either on a filter, or plumbed into a catch tank. I have seen/heard of some with a plain pipe to air/ground, but don't like the idea of oil being dribbled onto the public highway.

Assuming you're using an aftermarket fuelling system (inlet and carbs/TBs), you won't have the standard Ford inlet any more. So try connecting a catch tank to see just how much oil it's spitting out. This would be a good indicator as to whether something is wrong, or just appears abnormal. Remember, you've taken an engine out of a car that was designed for the masses and put it in something totally different, so expect some anomalies.

Others will tell you to try and keep it as close to the standard setup as possible (for obvious reasons - Ford spent plenty designing it that way - but see above paragraph!), which would work if you've retained the original injection system.

How much oil is it actually losing, and how are you currently measuring it?

Horses for causes, really - so take your pick!

ProjectSi - 19/8/15 at 12:05 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Charlie_Zetec
Zetecs originally had a breather system that connected the rocker cover, bottom end and inlet manifold I believe. Most block off the 3-bolt opening on the bottom end with a plate, and have the rocker breather either on a filter, or plumbed into a catch tank. I have seen/heard of some with a plain pipe to air/ground, but don't like the idea of oil being dribbled onto the public highway.

Assuming you're using an aftermarket fuelling system (inlet and carbs/TBs), you won't have the standard Ford inlet any more. So try connecting a catch tank to see just how much oil it's spitting out. This would be a good indicator as to whether something is wrong, or just appears abnormal. Remember, you've taken an engine out of a car that was designed for the masses and put it in something totally different, so expect some anomalies.

Others will tell you to try and keep it as close to the standard setup as possible (for obvious reasons - Ford spent plenty designing it that way - but see above paragraph!), which would work if you've retained the original injection system.

How much oil is it actually losing, and how are you currently measuring it?

Horses for causes, really - so take your pick!

Well as stupid as It sounds, I ran a set up similar to how my saxo track car runs (factory saxo set up) where the breather has a t piece to inlet manifold then a pipe to the intake pipe. I did the same to the zetec but without the t piece to inlet manifold, this is when it pulled a load of oil through the engine and burnt it off, nearly a litre in 12 hard miles. There was a plume of smoke, and loss of power. It did this three times. I've now set it up with the T piece to inlet vacuum and can't hear the gurgling anymore (exactly how the saxo runs). Please forgive the stupidity. The engine is not running carb or throttle bodies, just standard but is running kent inlet cam and bottom end overbore with low comp pistons.

Paul Turner - 19/8/15 at 12:16 PM

Had 3 Zetec's in my car. First was a Ł150 2 litre Silvertop out of a burnt out dash car. No idea of mileage but it was 8 years old. 2nd was a rebuilt bored out 2.1 Silvertop. Current engine is a crate 2 litre Blacktop.

All have used the same breather system which is:

Cam cover breather to bottle.

Block breather with valve removed to bottle.

Has always worked perfectly with only a minute amount collected i.e. only a smear at the bottom over a summers use.

Cost pence to set up, in truth I used the parts from my old cross flow.

SJ - 19/8/15 at 12:39 PM

Mine goes from the stock breather outlet on the block to a T piece and from there one goes to the rocker and one to the air filter backplate. Nothing has ever come out as far as I can tell.

Stu

leon51274 - 19/8/15 at 01:30 PM

Bizarre this should crop up as after a few spirited runs my silvertop spits out maybe 100ml of whitish looking mess into my catchtank. There is no sign of emulsification around the oil filler cap. Do you guys think I've got anything to worry about? Car seems to run reasonably well!

My set up is block to catchtank and head to catch tank all separate pipes.

[Edited on 19/8/15 by leon51274]

ProjectSi - 19/8/15 at 01:39 PM

Thanks for replies, will look into running a catch tank or bottle as you say, my main concern however is that the engine is goosed and is building up exhaust pressure from the bottom end through the rings and that's what's causing the gurgling and oil loss, blowby symptoms. Does anybody actually know the symptoms of blowby?

ProjectSi - 19/8/15 at 02:21 PM

Also has anyone got any pictures of their set ups, I'm not sure where the breather is on the block aswell? I'm running a PH1 Silvertop lump

Paul Turner - 19/8/15 at 02:46 PM

Photo as requested but in all honesty its difficult to see.

The bottle is in the bottom right of the photo and the block breather is under no. 3 exhaust port approx. Obvious where the cam cover breather is.

If you are going to try breathing to a bottle you need to remove the valve from the block breather, just pulls out.

As I said above this has worked perfectly for me since early 2001.

ProjectSi - 19/8/15 at 02:57 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paul Turner
Photo as requested but in all honesty its difficult to see.

The bottle is in the bottom right of the photo and the block breather is under no. 3 exhaust port approx. Obvious where the cam cover breather is.

If you are going to try breathing to a bottle you need to remove the valve from the block breather, just pulls out.

As I said above this has worked perfectly for me since early 2001.

Cheers, my engine bay is quite different to that haha, where is the breather/pcv on the block and what should it lead to? Might give it a clean to see if it's blocked and building pressure.

Paul Turner - 19/8/15 at 03:00 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ProjectSi
where is the breather/pcv on the block and what should it lead to? Might give it a clean to see if it's blocked and building pressure.

As I said its under no. 3 exhaust port. Early ones have a small square separator box, later ones a big rectangular one.

ProjectSi - 19/8/15 at 03:12 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paul Turner

quote:
Originally posted by ProjectSi
where is the breather/pcv on the block and what should it lead to? Might give it a clean to see if it's blocked and building pressure.

As I said its under no. 3 exhaust port. Early ones have a small square separator box, later ones a big rectangular one.

Sorry I didn't notice you said where it was, difficult to load the page on my phone, will try and see where it leads then see how it gets on, even with the breather running back into the intake, oil is somehow getting ontop of the gearbox and all around the bay so may be looking at a leak somewhere

ProjectSi - 19/8/15 at 05:36 PM

Aswell as the breather problem, there is also a big leak from around thermostat housing area, plus the car smokes in 4th gear around 5k rpm, any ideas what these could be, I've had the thermostat off to see anything obvious but can't see what could be up with it?

Paul Turner - 19/8/15 at 06:16 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ProjectSi
Aswell as the breather problem, there is also a big leak from around thermostat housing area, plus the car smokes in 4th gear around 5k rpm, any ideas what these could be, I've had the thermostat off to see anything obvious but can't see what could be up with it?

If its a water leak around the stat housing its probably a damaged "O" ring or gasket depending on the type of housing. If its an oil leak the only thing it could be the cam cover gasket. Don't buy a cheap pattern one, they don't fit correctly. Ford ones are only pence more.

As for smoking where is the smoke coming from? If its the exhaust its almost certainly the rings and that would also answer your breathing question and confirms your suspicion that the engine is not as good as you thought..

ProjectSi - 19/8/15 at 06:29 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paul Turner

quote:
Originally posted by ProjectSi
Aswell as the breather problem, there is also a big leak from around thermostat housing area, plus the car smokes in 4th gear around 5k rpm, any ideas what these could be, I've had the thermostat off to see anything obvious but can't see what could be up with it?

If its a water leak around the stat housing its probably a damaged "O" ring or gasket depending on the type of housing. If its an oil leak the only thing it could be the cam cover gasket. Don't buy a cheap pattern one, they don't fit correctly. Ford ones are only pence more.

As for smoking where is the smoke coming from? If its the exhaust its almost certainly the rings and that would also answer your breathing question and confirms your suspicion that the engine is not as good as you thought..

1st, 2nd and 3rd no matter what rpm no smoke, but in 4th around 5krpm it bellows smoke and loss of power, yesterday it started popping briefly. Don't know if the Cat might be on it's way out?. As far as I can see, cam cover gasket isn't leaking, but there is oil on bellhousing after a drive and there is a little pool of oil on one of the inlet manifold recesses right below the cam sensor. There is also a trail of oil running down by the cam sensor to where to head meets the block, feels like oil on the inside lip of the head. But it is leaking very badly, there is loads all over the drive and I'm not sure what it is. I hope to god the headgasket isn't knackered and leaking externally....

Andybarbet - 19/8/15 at 06:40 PM

My engine was bare when I got it so I made this up from bits in the garage, no serious tools, just hacksaw, drill & taps, the fittings came with my garage compressor but are the right size for the hose I have, if you need any reinforced hose I have loads, yours for postage cost if needed.

You can see the hole in the block here

My engine

ive made an ali plate with a barb to feed into catch tank

zetec block breather outlet

zetec block breather

Then the same fitting tapped & sealed into the cam cover to feed the catch tank too.

Cam cover breather

ProjectSi - 19/8/15 at 06:47 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Andybarbet
My engine was bare when I got it so I made this up from bits in the garage, no serious tools, just hacksaw, drill & taps, the fittings came with my garage compressor but are the right size for the hose I have, if you need any reinforced hose I have loads, yours for postage cost if needed.

You can see the hole in the block here

My engine

ive made an ali plate with a barb to feed into catch tank

zetec block breather outlet

zetec block breather

Then the same fitting tapped & sealed into the cam cover to feed the catch tank too.

Cam cover breather

Looks spot on that does, need to find the oil leak first, breather is leaking but I think it's leaking oil from somewhere else around thermostat housing, not sure if cam sensor or something, I'm worries headgasket may have an external leak as it really is honking out from somehwhere