Fuel Tanks
AntonUK - 3/4/12 at 07:38 PM
I have had a re-think regarding my fuel system, I was going with the LP/HP pumps with swirl pot but I'm struggling for space in the engine bay.
So I'm now thinking along the lines of an in tank type.
I have a tank already, but its a very simple 2x outlet (out and breather) plus the filler. Not even a level sender, sight tube, or baffle. Size is
280mm deep x 660 wide x 175mm.
So my questions to the locost collective is can you recommend...
An in tank pump that is suitable for the 280mm depth?
A solution for fuel level gauge/sender for same depth, preferably to a 52mm gauge?
and lastly a recommendation to a person or company that can either modify my tank or create a new one?
blakep82 - 3/4/12 at 08:00 PM
surely all you really need is a sort of sump in the bottom of the tank, say an inch deep, and 4 or 5" diameter with an outlet at the bottom of
it, then a HP pump and filter. the only mod you need is for a sump to be welded on the bottom, but its not an internal pump you need, but an
internal.
the sump is your swirl pot, and gravity LP pump 
cheap and simple
as for gauge, I got one of these
https://www.spiyda.com/magento/index.php/vehicle-electronics/fuel-gauge-electronics/4-led-fuel-gauge.html
not actually got it wired in yet, but you can use any fuel level sender, i got a cheap float type off ebay for about a tenner i think, and 4 LEDs.
Spiyda actually sends out LEDs with the gauge, but i like 5mm clear ones, these were 3mm diffuser type ones.
you set the point on the gauge where all your leds come on and off, so the actual resistance range isn't imporant, nor is whether or not the
float is set correctly
heres the little plate i made (waterjet cut by Andy) with 4 LEDs glued in
Description
colours are red for empty, amber for low, green for ok, and i can't remember if the top level was green or blue... might have been blue. but you
can do whatever you want lol
AntonUK - 3/4/12 at 08:44 PM
I thought about that, but it would mean a redesign and changes to the mountings. As the tank is already quite low in the chassis.
blakep82 - 3/4/12 at 10:19 PM
any photos of the general area?
any space for a small swirl pot and both pumps around the tank? had a quick look at the photos on your link, but didn't spot any of the tank.
i'm quite lucky really, i've got LOADS of space around my tank, but nowhere to mount anything.
still, if you decide a new tank is needed, give Jim and alloy racing fabrications a shout, i'm sure he'll sort you out. I got a haeder tank
off him last year, beautifully made, and made to my measurements/requests too
http://www.alloyracingfabrications.com/fuel-tanks/universal.html
don't think his prices are too bad, but any extra requirements, contact him and he should be able to do it for you
i'd still go for a sump type tank. any way to raise the tank up a bit? only 2" or so
Chippy - 3/4/12 at 10:27 PM
I used one of the Landrover in tank pumps, they have there own swirl pot and are height adjustable, (spring loaded side struts). Will try to add a
link. HTH Ray
ESR3926 LANDROVER DISCOVERY V8 3.9 EFI FUEL PUMP | eBay
spiyda - 4/4/12 at 04:19 PM
quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
surely all you really need is a sort of sump in the bottom of the tank, say an inch deep, and 4 or 5" diameter with an outlet at the bottom of
it, then a HP pump and filter. the only mod you need is for a sump to be welded on the bottom, but its not an internal pump you need, but an
internal.
the sump is your swirl pot, and gravity LP pump cheap and simple
as for gauge, I got one of these
https://www.spiyda.com/magento/index.php/vehicle-electronics/fuel-gauge-electronics/4-led-fuel-gauge.html
not actually got it wired in yet, but you can use any fuel level sender, i got a cheap float type off ebay for about a tenner i think, and 4 LEDs.
Spiyda actually sends out LEDs with the gauge, but i like 5mm clear ones, these were 3mm diffuser type ones.
you set the point on the gauge where all your leds come on and off, so the actual resistance range isn't imporant, nor is whether or not the
float is set correctly
heres the little plate i made (waterjet cut by Andy) with 4 LEDs glued in
Description
colours are red for empty, amber for low, green for ok, and i can't remember if the top level was green or blue... might have been blue. but you
can do whatever you want lol
oops... glad i found the post..
the LEDs I supply with the units have a current limiting resistor in series with them, heat shrunk in the lead..
If you replace them with 5mm you will need to put at least a 700 Ohm resistor (870 Ohm recommended) in series with each LED to limit the current to
less than 20mA. Connecting LEDS without resistors will probably blow up the IC and possibly the LED
drop me a line and I will send 4 suitable resistors in the post
If people want 5mm LEDs, I can supply suitable ones with the kit with the correct resistors..
I also do a version with anti-slosh built in... https://www.spiyda.com/magento/index.php/anti-slosh-4-led-fuel-gauge.html
Chris (-=Spiyda=-)
blakep82 - 4/4/12 at 04:27 PM
cheers Chris! yes all my LEDs have resistors in series already
not got my wiring loom done yet though. fingers crossed it'll be done soon so i can get it all up and running!
spiyda - 4/4/12 at 04:40 PM
quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
cheers Chris! yes all my LEDs have resistors in series already
not got my wiring loom done yet though. fingers crossed it'll be done soon so i can get it all up and running!
Hi Blake,
just worried that the standard resistors with 5mm LEDs are 470 Ohm
current draw on the bright ones can be well over the max that the chip can sink..
if you have a multimeter, check what current they draw at 12 Volts...
if it is more than about 16mA you will need to add extra resistors...
let me know the current on 12V and if they are needed I will send you some to add to make it up.. with some heatshrink..
Last thing I want is for you to blow the chip... I hate desoldering them 
Chris
ps the mounting looks great...
and why haven't you finished the wiring... the summer is nearly over !
(or maybe even completely over judging by what's outside !)
blakep82 - 4/4/12 at 05:03 PM
ooh, 25mA Chris, also checked one of the ones you sent, 21.4mA, so wonder if i've not set my multimeter up right... i'm no good on
electronics. the meter was set to the 200m scale, on 20m it just showed a 1.
what sort of effect would there be if i put an extra resisitor on the 12v input which feeds all 4 LEDs? like the same way you have panel dimmer
controls but with a fixed resistor.
summer. yeah, lol snowed here yesterday! summer's over! and i've missed the last 4 summers, so i'm not holding out hope on this one
electronics confuse the hell out of me!
spiyda - 4/4/12 at 05:28 PM
I'll send you some resistors just to be on the safe side...
It's only a stamp !
I'll also add something to the website for folks that might want to do the same...
Chris
blakep82 - 4/4/12 at 06:07 PM
you're a top man Chris! Thank you so much!
spiyda - 4/4/12 at 06:13 PM
No problem
just get the car running !
blakep82 - 4/4/12 at 06:18 PM
problems mostly time and money... never got both lol. someone else is doing the loom for me though, so waiting on him being ready to measure up for
it. hopefully not long now!
AntonUK - 4/4/12 at 10:33 PM
I will get a photo tomorrow.
Link looks good
quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
any photos of the general area?
any space for a small swirl pot and both pumps around the tank? had a quick look at the photos on your link, but didn't spot any of the tank.
i'm quite lucky really, i've got LOADS of space around my tank, but nowhere to mount anything.
still, if you decide a new tank is needed, give Jim and alloy racing fabrications a shout, i'm sure he'll sort you out. I got a haeder tank
off him last year, beautifully made, and made to my measurements/requests too
http://www.alloyracingfabrications.com/fuel-tanks/universal.html
don't think his prices are too bad, but any extra requirements, contact him and he should be able to do it for you
i'd still go for a sump type tank. any way to raise the tank up a bit? only 2" or so
AntonUK - 5/4/12 at 11:32 AM
Just been out for a nose... I could raise the tank slightly to allow for a sump, but would mean re-welding mount to the chassis. May also stuggle with
a re-fuel nossle possibly?
What to the locost collective think? My current thoughts is to fit a 50mm sump to this tank, have additional return takeoff fitted and possibly move
the filler neck?
I need to weigh up the cost vs reliability options as I cant weld aluminium.
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[Edited on 5/4/12 by AntonUK]
Chippy - 5/4/12 at 04:25 PM
Don't know if you read my post above, but if the tank is deep enough then the pump I mentioned would defiately do the job, and you wouldn't
need to make a sump. Just cut a hole in the top and bolt the pump in. I have one fitted in my V6 240 bhp car and more than enough supply. HTH Ray
AntonUK - 5/4/12 at 04:42 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Chippy
Don't know if you read my post above, but if the tank is deep enough then the pump I mentioned would defiately do the job, and you wouldn't
need to make a sump. Just cut a hole in the top and bolt the pump in. I have one fitted in my V6 240 bhp car and more than enough supply. HTH Ray
Yeah, I looked at that pump but its 340mm long so my tank isnt deep enough 
Chippy - 5/4/12 at 09:46 PM
As I said in my post the height is adjustable, if you like I can measure my tank tomorrow as I have it fitted at its very shortest, which if memory
serves is around 250mm, 10" in old money. Cheers Ray
AntonUK - 5/4/12 at 09:57 PM
arr, awesome... if you can check the depth that would be great.
How does have you mounted it? Rivnuts and a cork gasket?
Chippy - 5/4/12 at 10:04 PM
I didn't go to that extreme, I just fitted it with PK screws and a rubber gasket. Even with the tank overful, (fuel in the fill pipe), never had
a leak. Will get out with the tape tomorrow and let you know later in the day, when I get in. Regards Ray
Nitrogeno25 - 6/4/12 at 01:46 AM
quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
surely all you really need is a sort of sump in the bottom of the tank, say an inch deep, and 4 or 5" diameter with an outlet at the bottom of
it, then a HP pump and filter. the only mod you need is for a sump to be welded on the bottom, but its not an internal pump you need, but an
internal.
You mean an external pump?
I'm wondering how effective a 2 inch deep sump will be for the track.
External swirl pot with 2 fuel pumps is over complicated I think.
blakep82 - 6/4/12 at 02:09 AM
sorry, yes, you would need an external pump (or rather, you could use an external pump)
i should imagine 2" deep should be enough, enought to catch the fuel as it moves around the bottom of a tank. if fuel isn't finding its way
into that, then you should really have more fuel!
Chippy - 6/4/12 at 09:05 AM
Right have measured my tank, and the overall top to bottom is 270mm, (10 5/8"
. So a little more than I thought, (20mm). I can recommend these
pumps haveing got one fitted in my car, prior to fitting had great problems with fuel surge, cutting out on fast corners, (even though the tank has
two baffles), but since I have had none of this. HTH Ray
AntonUK - 6/4/12 at 09:57 AM
Sounds just the job. Thanks for the measurements. How did you cut the tank? Hole saw or jigsaw?
Chippy - 6/4/12 at 09:28 PM
Yes just jig sawed the hole out as its quite large for a hole saw. Cheers Ray
AntonUK - 7/4/12 at 12:31 PM
Thanks all..... have ordered a landy pump...
Chippy do you have a photo of your mounting solution?
Chippy - 7/4/12 at 04:16 PM
Only got this one, which doesn't show much, just the connections. Cheers Ray
[img]
Top of pump
[/img]
AntonUK - 13/4/12 at 04:35 PM
New pump arrived on wednesday, so as I had today off I have got round to doing the job most (including me) dislike... Cutting the tank...
Need to get some Aluminum M5 riv nuts, cork gasket and fixing ring but feeling confident this should be a much better way of doing it than the swirl
pot plan I had orginally. Cheers all
