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flipping vosa, jobsworth douchebags.
cd.thomson - 19/7/10 at 09:50 AM

I cant get my car through IVA without getting it past the CAT emissions test.

Depite it being a pre-95 engine (confirmed by haynes) the guy wont test it to NON-CAT standards without documentary evidence that the engine with that SPECIFIC engine number was produced prior to august 1995.

I've got a little over a month to get it passed and no money to make any major modifications.

I have not had one moment of enjoyment out of this bleeping car. its taken twice as long and twice as much money as it should have done and all its given me is problems.

sorry for the title, didnt realise filtering didnt work on the subject lines.

[Edited on 19/7/10 by cd.thomson]


speedyxjs - 19/7/10 at 09:55 AM

What engine is it?

Send a letter/email to the manufacturer stating the engine number and they will send a letter stating the date and probably time the engine/car was built.

[Edited on 19-7-10 by speedyxjs]


edspurrier - 19/7/10 at 09:57 AM

ford happily supplied me with a letter confirming engine age.


Surrey Dave - 19/7/10 at 09:58 AM

All very frustrating I'm sure but it doesn't excuse the x rated title on this thread.


cd.thomson - 19/7/10 at 09:59 AM

quote:
Originally posted by speedyxjs
What engine is it?

Send a letter/email to the manufacturer stating the engine number and they will send a letter stating the date and probably time the engine/car was built.

[Edited on 19-7-10 by speedyxjs]


Vauxhall C20XE, and not unless I attach a nice £100 cheque with it - with no guarantee they'll find anything.

I've also tried autodata and can't find any matches.

I'm completely done with the whole endeavour. I honestly wish I could go home and the car and everything to do with it have disappeared.


cd.thomson - 19/7/10 at 10:00 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Surrey Dave
All very frustrating I'm sure but it doesn't excuse the x rated title on this thread.


Alright softlad, I've changed it now.


Davegtst - 19/7/10 at 10:05 AM

It's a Vauxhall lump, i doubt Ford will help.


cd.thomson - 19/7/10 at 10:06 AM

Basically after 2 years of building I'm sitting on a £9k method of getting quickly from one end of my 20ft drive to the other.

Read above, I need to spend an imaginary £100 on a non-guaranteed letter from vauxhall which can take up to 4 weeks to arrive.


Benzine - 19/7/10 at 10:16 AM


cd.thomson - 19/7/10 at 10:22 AM

Tried to strong arm £100 from my old man until I read the email that I got back from vauxhall.

They'll only produce me a letter if I can give documentary evidence of purchase (i.e. a receipt/invoice), which I can't.

So my only option is to replace my exhaust with one with a cat fitted, which I can neither afford or have the time to do.

Urgh. I'm going to sit on it for the time being but I'll be selling it unregistered if it's not sorted by Sept 14th.

What a great endeavour.


coozer - 19/7/10 at 10:26 AM

Craig, I understand your frustration but it is the builders responsibility to confirm engine age. Its stated clearly in the SVA/IVA manual.

Blaming them ain't going to get you a MAC.

So, its either a letter proofing engine age or a fitted CAT that will pass the more stringent emissions.

*Call for help!*

Is there not a Vauxhaul owners club or other resource that can help, any Opel organisation in Europe, or, any Vauxhaul/Opel engineers here who can help?


BenB - 19/7/10 at 10:29 AM

quote:
Originally posted by cd.thomson
Tried to strong arm £100 from my old man until I read the email that I got back from vauxhall.

They'll only produce me a letter if I can give documentary evidence of purchase (i.e. a receipt/invoice), which I can't.

So my only option is to replace my exhaust with one with a cat fitted, which I can neither afford or have the time to do.

Urgh. I'm going to sit on it for the time being but I'll be selling it unregistered if it's not sorted by Sept 14th.

What a great endeavour.


So you need an invoice from a scrapyard for an engine. Shouldn't be too difficult!


cd.thomson - 19/7/10 at 10:31 AM

all well and good if a significant number of XE engined cars hadn't passed emissions and been given a MAC based on the information from haynes.

Simple fact of the matter is that I can't get a letter and I can't replace the exhaust. So where does that leave me?

Flat on my face at the final hurdle, £4-5K down even after I resell the car and two years of sweat and tears with no significant pay off.

"Its all your fault" is hardly constructive.


cd.thomson - 19/7/10 at 10:34 AM

quote:
Originally posted by BenB
quote:
Originally posted by cd.thomson
Tried to strong arm £100 from my old man until I read the email that I got back from vauxhall.

They'll only produce me a letter if I can give documentary evidence of purchase (i.e. a receipt/invoice), which I can't.

So my only option is to replace my exhaust with one with a cat fitted, which I can neither afford or have the time to do.

Urgh. I'm going to sit on it for the time being but I'll be selling it unregistered if it's not sorted by Sept 14th.

What a great endeavour.


So you need an invoice from a scrapyard for an engine. Shouldn't be too difficult!


You'd think, but I tried this method first (get an invoice implicating car age). I contacted 3 local scrappys near me, all promised me a letter, all never to be heard from again.

Same for a couple of members on here.

I don't blame them, as its an illicit activity, but it just removes that option.


l0rd - 19/7/10 at 10:35 AM

There is a sollution

http://www.migweb.co.uk/forums/engines-transmission/328856-official-engine-age-proof-sva-needed.html


cd.thomson - 19/7/10 at 10:37 AM

quote:
Originally posted by l0rd
There is a sollution

http://www.migweb.co.uk/forums/engines-transmission/328856-official-engine-age-proof-sva-needed.html


I'm already in touch with Jonathon, he won't touch it without an engine receipt though.


Agriv8 - 19/7/10 at 10:38 AM

quote:
Originally posted by BenB
quote:
Originally posted by cd.thomson
Tried to strong arm £100 from my old man until I read the email that I got back from vauxhall.

They'll only produce me a letter if I can give documentary evidence of purchase (i.e. a receipt/invoice), which I can't.

So my only option is to replace my exhaust with one with a cat fitted, which I can neither afford or have the time to do.

Urgh. I'm going to sit on it for the time being but I'll be selling it unregistered if it's not sorted by Sept 14th.

What a great endeavour.


So you need an invoice from a scrapyard for an engine. Shouldn't be too difficult!


My thought a letter for a 'Freind' / 'Farther' stating that he sold you the engine date cost ect should be Ok shouldnt it. on the event they do case it up ( VERY VERY unlikley. 'Bought a job lot of XE parts and this came with it ? '

Regards

Agriv8


l0rd - 19/7/10 at 10:44 AM

quote:
Originally posted by cd.thomson
quote:
Originally posted by l0rd
There is a sollution

http://www.migweb.co.uk/forums/engines-transmission/328856-official-engine-age-proof-sva-needed.html


I'm already in touch with Jonathon, he won't touch it without an engine receipt though.


What about autodata?


cd.thomson - 19/7/10 at 10:46 AM

quote:
Originally posted by l0rd
quote:
Originally posted by cd.thomson
quote:
Originally posted by l0rd
There is a sollution

http://www.migweb.co.uk/forums/engines-transmission/328856-official-engine-age-proof-sva-needed.html


I'm already in touch with Jonathon, he won't touch it without an engine receipt though.


What about autodata?


Can't find any matches apart from the XE wasn't produced after 1995.


l0rd - 19/7/10 at 10:53 AM

Isn't there someone here with an XE and a letter that he could lent you the engine for the test?


cd.thomson - 19/7/10 at 10:57 AM

the tester wants documentation that links my specific engine number to a specific date so that'd be no good, hes a nightmare. Its like talking to a robot. He has absolutely no flexibility or discression.

From everything I've read hes got to be the worst examiner I've heard of.


l0rd - 19/7/10 at 11:02 AM

doesn't vauxhall have a program like Dialogys from Renault?


MikeR - 19/7/10 at 11:07 AM

i'm not going to suggest that someone else with a letter scans it in, changes the engine number and sends it to you.

That would probably be against the rules, but i'm sure someone else may have an idea that isn't against the rules.


BenB - 19/7/10 at 11:11 AM

quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
i'm not going to suggest that someone else with a letter scans it in, changes the engine number and sends it to you.

That would probably be against the rules, but i'm sure someone else may have an idea that isn't against the rules.


To be honest when someone is being so anal in terms of interpreting the rules I think it's limbs that need breaking not rules


thunderace - 19/7/10 at 11:12 AM

i would have just faked a letter from vauxhall


cd.thomson - 19/7/10 at 11:17 AM

there may also be the slight issue that i played my "joker" on the phone and told him vauxhall couldn't find any details of the engine so haynes was the only thing I had. So I'm not sure what his reaction will be if I turn up with a letter?!

He just said there was nothing he could do at his end so no point me retesting it until I could provide something relevant.

If I do pass the test is there anyway he can stop me registering the car once he gives me a mac?

[Edited on 19/7/10 by cd.thomson]


speedyxjs - 19/7/10 at 11:25 AM

Just an idea, How about going to your local main stealer and seeing if they might be able to find out from your specific engine number. they may have 'contacts' in Vauxhall how may be more helpful?


omega 24 v6 - 19/7/10 at 11:28 AM

quote:

If I do pass the test is there anyway he can stop me registering the car once he gives me a mac?



Highly unlikely but bear in mind that if you fit a cat etc etc and he passes it it will most likely be at the stricter cat emissions
so if you remove the cat then you will need to probably refitt it come mot times
oh and you have U2U


tony-devon - 19/7/10 at 11:41 AM

even if you proove that the engine was from before compulsory CAT's is it possible that he will say it has to have one anyway as the engine originally was fitted with a cat, hence the C in C20XE

just a thought but can you lay your hands on an old 2l 8v lump a 20ne or 20seh?

fit that get it tested and then swap engine back?

I now always keep a photocopy of the logbook that the donor engines come from

although as mine are all bike based, my MSVA test is far easier, but next project after this is a car, so already thinking ahead


omega 24 v6 - 19/7/10 at 11:45 AM

quote:

even if you proove that the engine was from before compulsory CAT's is it possible that he will say it has to have one anyway as the engine originally was fitted with a cat, hence the C in C20XE



There is the problem because not all c20xe's had a cat fitted. my one did not but was still a c20xe stamped block ( original engine) luckily I also had a 20xe which i fitted.


cd.thomson - 19/7/10 at 11:48 AM

quote:
Originally posted by tony-devon
even if you proove that the engine was from before compulsory CAT's is it possible that he will say it has to have one anyway as the engine originally was fitted with a cat, hence the C in C20XE

just a thought but can you lay your hands on an old 2l 8v lump a 20ne or 20seh?

fit that get it tested and then swap engine back?

I now always keep a photocopy of the logbook that the donor engines come from

although as mine are all bike based, my MSVA test is far easier, but next project after this is a car, so already thinking ahead


Cheers tony, but thats not the case.

He's happy to test me as per the emissions test flowcharts which only take engine age in to account, not whether it was fitted with a cat originally.


Mal - 19/7/10 at 11:51 AM

Contact a Vauxhall engine tuning company such as SBD to see if they can offer any help.
Also, try a Vauxhall dealer to see if their computer system can find the car registration number, and hence date from the engine number.


pewe - 19/7/10 at 12:00 PM

Craig, tugging at my long grey beard (well it's not that long) - you've spent a considerable amount of time and money reaching here.
Whilst the odds may currently seem stacked against you we all recognise the frustration of taking one step forward and two back when it comes to the build and putting it on the road.
I reckon to a man (and ladies) we'd all say that the end result makes the frustration worthwhile - see the number of responses you've had in such a short space of time.
Do not give up - hang in there - you WILL resolve your problems - it WILL be worth it.
HTH.
Cheers, Pewe

[Edited on 19/7/10 by pewe]


James - 19/7/10 at 12:40 PM

Vauxhall website and get a logo.

You got Word right? Got a printer?

Is there still a problem?

If you want extra evidence put a phone number of a mate who's primed with the full story. Or even leave your landline number and leave a "You've come through to X Vauxhall dealership" answer phone message.

Job is job!

cheers,
James

[Edited on 19/7/10 by James]


l0rd - 19/7/10 at 12:50 PM

where is the number stamped?

According to this website
http://topbuzz.co.uk/info/engine_codes/engine_codes.htm

The engine code shall be stamped below the cylinder head (up to 1993), usually on a small flat surface. But after 1993 the location moved to the edge of the cylinder block, transmission side.


02GF74 - 19/7/10 at 12:56 PM

quote:
Originally posted by pewe
Craig, tugging at my long grey beard (well it's not that long) - you've spent a considerable amount of time and money reaching here.
Whilst the odds may currently seem stacked against you we all recognise the frustration of taking one step forward and two back when it comes to the build and putting it on the road.
I reckon to a man we'd all say that the end result makes the frustration worthwhile - see the number of responses you've had in such a short space of time.
Do not give up - hang in there - you WILL resolve your problems - it WILL be worth it.



on a scale of to 10, where death is 10, it doesn't really rank that highly.

bottom line is it is gonna cost you money - either for a CAT, another dated engine or some other means and maybe IVA test fee but none of that is the end of the world

admittedly when you are broke, even a hundred squid is a big deal.

hang on in there list up you options and then find the one that is easier/cheapest.


scootz - 19/7/10 at 01:03 PM

I'd stick to an officially sourced document Craig... this tester sounds like a right one and could end up turning detective to drop you in the doo-doo!


dhutch - 19/7/10 at 01:15 PM

You can get a purchase receipt for the engine easy.
- It very least, you can sell it to your mate for £0.50 and then buy it back an hour later for the same! Engine doesnt even have to leave the car.


Daniel


cd.thomson - 19/7/10 at 01:19 PM

quote:
Originally posted by scootz
I'd stick to an officially sourced document Craig... this tester sounds like a right one and could end up turning detective to drop you in the doo-doo!


A user on here has informed me that their letter from vauxhall just confirmed their engine was made before the end of 1995 - which is basically the information I have already.

I see no way round this at all considering my £200ish budget (thanks dad) and 4 weeks until I move away.


Liam - 19/7/10 at 02:01 PM

I'd be considering going above this numpty's head and writing a letter to VOSA strongly complaining about this guy's attitude (using his name), pointing out that you can prove the engine wasn't even produced after 1995, that even from Vauxhall themelves the specific date of manufacture of the individual engine is not available, not that that should matter given the above, that other vehicles with the same engine have been sucessfully tested, that you have paid a significant sum of money for the test and are deeply unsatisfied with the service you have received from VOSA, etc etc etc.

Maybe worth a try? Good luck and dont give up. Why is it so critical it's done and dusted before you move away? Never planning to come back?


scudderfish - 19/7/10 at 02:25 PM

Wot Liam said ^^

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/contactus/complaintsprocedure/complaintsprocedure.htm


iank - 19/7/10 at 02:56 PM

Since you told VOSA that Vauxhall don't know when the engine was manufactured it would seem to leave you in the position of changing the engine or fitting a cat. A letter from Vauxhall will be treated as proof because they are talking about your engine, haynes just talks generally about models not about when your specific engine came down the line so wouldn't ever be taken as proof - you'll need something better than that as an appeal (the 'lots of other people passed SVA' gambit is also unlikely to do the job at least without names, dates and test stations). Ford encode the year of manufacture in the engine number so are MUCH easier to prove with less paperwork required.

Forging Vauxhall letterhead might have been an option but as VOSA are rumoured to monitor this site amongst others it doesn't seem wise now even if the guy didn't know you were desperate.

BTW you won't get a MAC until you pass the test, and you won't pass the test until it passes emissions one way or another. So I'm not sure what you mean about passing the test and them stopping you registering.

Which brings me to a final point. Abusing a VOSA official for doing his job according to the rules given to him on a public forum that may be monitored using your real name doesn't seem likely to lead to an easier path to getting the car on the road. So despite your frustration staying reasonable and polite is the only sensible option.


Liam - 19/7/10 at 02:58 PM

I might let the guy know first that I'm going to complain about him personally - see if he squirms a bit and backs down to save you the bother.


James - 19/7/10 at 03:15 PM

Could you book your retest at a different station? Get a more reasonable inspector?


russbost - 19/7/10 at 03:19 PM

This guy is obviously going to stick to the letter of the law so don't provide falsified proof - will probs only make matters worse.
Talk (calmly & sensibly) to Mark Vickers, Steve Bardsley, or Steve Jones at VOSA, 01792 454256, 01792 454351, they will give you the official requirement of what you need to do to prove the engine age & their view may be different from the testers. I have found these guys most helpful, they can't tell the tester what to do, but if they advise one thing, he does another & you take the matter to appeal you have a very strong case.
Best of luck & don't flush it all down the tubes over something so minor - if worst comes to worst bung an older engine in that you have proof of age for & swap it out afterward


Surrey Dave - 19/7/10 at 03:29 PM

None of us like to be 'pulled up' when we've made a bit of tit of ourselves .

Obviously the reference to me being 'Softlad' (Someone with a weak personality. A wimp, a pussy, a soft person) in your reply was an insult in retribution.

Can say no more..................

Is there anyone on here who could lend you a cat system for your engine?


l0rd - 19/7/10 at 03:58 PM

Can't you speak to VOSA and ask them for the information on what car the engine was installed in?

They must know.


l0rd - 19/7/10 at 04:11 PM

Something a bit dodgy

There is car on Ebay, A 1995 Calibra

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1995-VAUXHALL-CALIBRA-GREY-/150469260639?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item2308aab55f


Can't you ask him the engine number if it is a Red top and then offer him some money and explain the situation if he can photocopy the information that you require from the logbook?

Dodgy but you will never know if you don't ask.

if your engine number is lower in the food chain than his car then there you go. His 1st registration was in Aug1995. Just on the cut out date.

[Edited on 19/7/10 by l0rd]

[Edited on 19/7/10 by l0rd]


Liam - 19/7/10 at 04:46 PM

quote:
Originally posted by cd.thomson
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
I'd stick to an officially sourced document Craig... this tester sounds like a right one and could end up turning detective to drop you in the doo-doo!


A user on here has informed me that their letter from vauxhall just confirmed their engine was made before the end of 1995 - which is basically the information I have already.

I see no way round this at all considering my £200ish budget (thanks dad) and 4 weeks until I move away.


Iank makes an important point though - there is a crucial difference between the haynes info you have and the vaux letter. Presumably the vaux letter says something along the lines of 'the engine enquired about was made before end of 1995' - i.e. it relates to a specific engine, so is not just 'basically the information you have already'. Have you actually asked the guy if he would accept such a letter (maybe show him a copy of it for an example)? He might which would leave you only with the lesser problem of getting a reciept (have you tried where/who you actually got it from?) and raising the £100 to get the letter. If he's really not going to accept the vaux letter then you have grounds for a proper complaint.


big_wasa - 19/7/10 at 04:50 PM

If all he wants is a cat then get one.

link

I am sure some one on here would weld it on for you.

Thats got to be the best sollution ?


l0rd - 19/7/10 at 04:57 PM

would you like to share you engine number with us please??

[Edited on 19/7/10 by l0rd]


donn006 - 19/7/10 at 05:36 PM

hi there is 2 tings you can do go back to the mot station ask him to put it thruoch a bet test which it would probably fail then he has to do a full cat test in which he has to put all the vehicle details in which will then ask what year of manuarfacture date ie was it before 1995 which is when they stopped makeing the c20xe ,which will then take you to a standard non cat test which it should pass the second thing you could do is bite the bullit and take the car to a vauxhall based mot centre where they will have all the details and possibly a tester with the know how hope this helps


scootz - 19/7/10 at 05:47 PM

Craigs problem is IVA, not MOT Donn.


cd.thomson - 19/7/10 at 08:37 PM

Hi guys, thanks for all the replies.

The haynes manual specifically states that the C20XE engine was no longer made after 1995. It then goes on to explain about the engine's replacement. Vauxhall produce a letter that states the engine was produced up to 1995. Neither gives proof the engine wasn't produced in Aug/Dec 1995.

I can't fit a cat to my exhaust:



the engine number is 16 108281.

Thanks for all the words of wisdom, I just don't see a way round this one.


Liam - 19/7/10 at 09:10 PM

There's always a way - don't give up hope.

Maybe you could do a gash exhaust with the production car cast manifold and some bodged together producion car pipe from a scrapyard or something that could take a cat? You could use it for MOTs in the future. Wasn't there some outfit set up renting cats for tests - mainly used by BEC boys? Could probably do this in the time/budget.

Why is your moving deadline so critical? Is there no way the car can be stored at your loving parents' or somewhere else whilst you sort ou the paperwork remotely in your own time and do the retest when you're ready? I take it you're not relocating to a Tibetan monastery? If you can accept the deadline being missed and you're therefore not under such time pressure, there are more options open to pursue.

What about getting a dirt cheap banger that could have/does have that engine - even a non running shed, just for it's V5. Then transfer your engine number to that V5 with the DVLA. This at least used to be the way to get what appears on paper as a single donor which helped with age related plates. I remember hearing tales of many 5+ litre Sierras being created (on paper) by people building Cobras . Apparently DVLA were only likely to ask for evidence of the paper engine swap being real if capacity was going down a lot, as this could have been an attempt at tax fraud.


Volvorsport - 19/7/10 at 10:07 PM

ive got some old cats/exhaust lying about if you can refit the original exhaust manifold , i see you dont have a cutout tho which could be a problem .

youll also need to be quick , im off to spain next week .

im only in lincoln if you can collect .


l0rd - 20/7/10 at 07:19 AM

That is the first C20XE that i see starting with 16.

All the ones I have seen starts with 14?


cd.thomson - 20/7/10 at 07:50 AM

quote:
Originally posted by l0rd
That is the first C20XE that i see starting with 16.

All the ones I have seen starts with 14?


There were two slight variations of the engine early/late. Mine is a late model, hence "16".

Its still more than unlikely that it was made in the final three months of 95


l0rd - 20/7/10 at 08:01 AM

Ahhh Ok

I am still on it.

Not giving up yet.


cd.thomson - 20/7/10 at 08:22 AM

thank you very much for looking into it somewhere l0rd.

everyones comments and suggestions have been very much appreciated.

Oh and Surrey Dave, "softlad" was only a bit of banter, said with a smile rather than a grimace. I was in the process of changing the title when you posted - I was expecting the naughty words to be asterixed out.


l0rd - 20/7/10 at 11:08 AM

I know it might be no helpfull but,

Can't you get a normal exhaust that you can chop, twist it, bend it under the car and then fit a cat and a back box?

Then you can keep it for mots etc...

15 quid for manifold, another 30 for cat and 70 for backbox.

I know, you cannot afford it, but it will be the easiest option?


I am not giving up though yet.


Liam - 20/7/10 at 12:22 PM



Been speaking to a friendly Vauxhall Parts Manager on my tintop forum who's kindly sent out some questions to relevant people, but unfortunately he's unable to help. Unfortunately the engine number alone doesn't give him any dates information. He reckons all C20XE's were made before even the end of '94 (even if they were fitted to a car registered later) as the replacement X20XE started production in '94, but that probably wont wash with your IVA numpty.

Looking like you're only option will be to bodge together an exhaust out of scrapper production car bits including a cat. If it unfortunately falls off after the IVA, at least you have something to replace it with .

That or the possibility of obtaining a pre '95 vaux V5 of a model that could have had a C20XE and doing the paper engine swap trick.


Liam - 20/7/10 at 12:55 PM

OK here's the plan!

2 litre Cavalier off ebay. No more than £200. Several to choose from - ones even taxed and tested and near me - i could pick it up for you.

Then either get your engine number on its V5, though not sure how long that'd take to come through, or whip it's motor out and into your dax for the IVA. When you're done either swap back or keep it in the dax. If you end up still with a working cav you can flog it for your money back.

Job's a goodun!

[Edited on 20/7/10 by Liam]


l0rd - 20/7/10 at 01:00 PM

Liam

What i was looking at

From the engine number, to find the car that was initialy installed at. Then look at the date the car that was registered in UK.


cd.thomson - 20/7/10 at 01:30 PM

DVLA require pictures of the engine in the car these days even if there isn't a capacity change. I tried a similar trick with my sierra's V5 to help me get an age related plate and got stopped in my tracks!

Bodging an exhaust is an option but slightly more tricky than it sounds. I can't weld and the car is in a little village at the minute. I'm looking at labour and transport costs on top of buying the bits. Also I think I'd have to chop open the side panel which would be a nightmare to replace afterwards.

I could buy a pre-95 calibra with the redtop fitted and swapping the engine but you're looking at more than £500 for the car and they're getting rare.

I could get the car retested elsewhere as I know its not an issue at most test stations, but I have to pay for a first test fee, £450. Retests are only applicable at the testing station that did the first test.

I'm not trying to be obstructive which I bet is how it sounds. I genuinely want the car finished and drivable, but it's all dead ends!

Suggestions are always welcome though as hopefully someone will recommend something on a whim that solves all these issues!

At the end of the day, I'm not going to do anything too dubious as I know my car meets all the standards set out in the IVA manual, and its just one last (ridiculous) hurdle I have to jump.


scudderfish - 20/7/10 at 01:43 PM

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1994-VAUXHALL-CAVALIER-SRI-GREEN-/290454682074?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item43a072b9da#ht_901wt_1137

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1994-VAUXHALL-CAVALIER-GLS-16V-BLUE-/220639992930?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item335f2b1c62#ht_1320wt_1137 />
?


cd.thomson - 20/7/10 at 01:45 PM

Cheers mate, but both of those have the ecotec engine not the redtop.

I'd actually have to physically swap my engine into the cav, take pictures then arrange for the V5 to be changed before approaching VOSA again.


Liam - 20/7/10 at 01:46 PM

What's wrong with a cavalier or astra? Loads on Ebay or autotrader for around £200. Plus if you end up keeping the vaux working, you can flog it back when the dust has settled so to speak.

How hard would it be to provide pics of your ebay vaux with a C20XE in it, since it comes with one in the first place! Easy to create a series of photos including an engine hoist, slight lift of the old engine in the vaux, close up of the 'new' engine's number stamp (taken from your dax), maybe even get the engine out of the dax on a hoist for one shot, that appear to show a like for like engine swap. Story being simply a repair of the said vaux.

Or really swap the engines - not such a big job, and dont bother with the paper swap.

Or do the exhaust - is it really a 'nightmare' to fill a hole in a panel later? No, its a small amount of money and/or some work.

You do sound a bit defeatist, but I can barely even imagine the frustration you must be feeling. Chin up though. I'm sure you can call on some help if an engine swap is on the cards.


Liam - 20/7/10 at 01:50 PM

quote:
Originally posted by cd.thomson
Cheers mate, but both of those have the ecotec engine not the redtop.

I'd actually have to physically swap my engine into the cav, take pictures then arrange for the V5 to be changed before approaching VOSA again.


But if you really swapped the engine, you would have a V5 which matches the engine in your Dax, so no need for a paper engine swap with DVLA. Just get the dax tested with the swapped engine (does it really matter even if it's an ecotec?) with your donor V5 as your proof. Leave it in there or put your original C20 back in the dax in your own time.


l0rd - 20/7/10 at 01:50 PM

I meant, you could for the test bend the exhaust under the chassis and probably make it a bit on the oval side.


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VAUXHALL-CAVALIER-GSI-SRI-RED-TOP-XE-EXHAUST-MANIFOLD-/310233708354?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&ha sh=item483b5eb742

cut both the pipes and reverse manifold, then bend and weld

[Edited on 20/7/10 by l0rd]


scootz - 20/7/10 at 04:34 PM

Thinking outside the box...

What about one of the recent Suzuki GSXR exhausts? One inlet AND integral cat.

Budget about £25 for one. There's not a lot of weight in them, so just get a tight link pipe and hang it from your manifold - it'll do for a one-off test!

You might have to do some filling on any of the sharper edges, but who cares... it's cheap and you can keep it for your MOT when the time comes!

eBay Linky

There may be other bike ones out there that suit your needs better, but this is the first that came to mind!



scootz - 20/7/10 at 04:35 PM

Initial thoughts being to mount it as shown in the pic... on its side and silencer top.


cd.thomson - 20/7/10 at 06:57 PM

Good idea scootz, my exhaust doesn't lend itself to that option (4 pipes enter the can). Could be a good choice if I make a new exhaust though.

I can't really run the exhaust under the car as I dont have the clearance, but nice thinking l0rd as my side panels are sikaflexed on and can only be removed after all the other body panels are taken off (wings, dash, scuttle) so panel replacement is a fairly big deal.

I could fit an ecotec, but this would require a new manifold for my carbs and a new exhaust as the ports are different. Definitely an option though as my bellhousing etc would still be usable and I'd be able to get a V5.


scootz - 20/7/10 at 07:02 PM

Ah...



Liam - 20/7/10 at 07:23 PM

quote:
Originally posted by cd.thomson
I could fit an ecotec, but this would require a new manifold for my carbs and a new exhaust as the ports are different. Definitely an option though as my bellhousing etc would still be usable and I'd be able to get a V5.


Dont really know my vaux engines - is there any block/bottom end differences between C20XE redtop and the X20XE ecotec? If you were to get a cheap ecotec Cav as available on Ebay, could you fit it in but then stick your C20XE head on so you dont need to change any manifolds? Then you have the engine number on the block corresponding to your shiny new V5. Even if IVA jobsworth notices the C20 head on an X20, that should still be allowed as engine is defined by it's block, but you might be able to avoid that if the black ecotec trim fits on the C20 cover (or the whole rocker cover can be swapped).

Hows about that then?

EDIT: Some googling suggests your C20XE head would go on an X20XE block, but I suppose somewhere like migweb, vvoc, vxon might know better.

[Edited on 20/7/10 by Liam]


l0rd - 20/7/10 at 07:50 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Liam
quote:
Originally posted by cd.thomson
I could fit an ecotec, but this would require a new manifold for my carbs and a new exhaust as the ports are different. Definitely an option though as my bellhousing etc would still be usable and I'd be able to get a V5.


Dont really know my vaux engines - is there any block/bottom end differences between C20XE redtop and the X20XE ecotec? If you were to get a cheap ecotec Cav as available on Ebay, could you fit it in but then stick your C20XE head on so you dont need to change any manifolds? Then you have the engine number on the block corresponding to your shiny new V5. Even if IVA jobsworth notices the C20 head on an X20, that should still be allowed as engine is defined by it's block, but you might be able to avoid that if the black ecotec trim fits on the C20 cover (or the whole rocker cover can be swapped).

Hows about that then?

EDIT: Some googling suggests your C20XE head would go on an X20XE block, but I suppose somewhere like migweb, vvoc, vxon might know better.

[Edited on 20/7/10 by Liam]


That is a good idea. I did think of it, i just didn't say anything as I didn't know if any work has been done to the engine to justify taking it to pieces.

I believe the 20XE is exactly the same bolt on bolt off for the whole engine.


l0rd - 20/7/10 at 07:53 PM

quote:
Originally posted by cd.thomson
Good idea scootz, my exhaust doesn't lend itself to that option (4 pipes enter the can). Could be a good choice if I make a new exhaust though.

I can't really run the exhaust under the car as I dont have the clearance, but nice thinking l0rd as my side panels are sikaflexed on and can only be removed after all the other body panels are taken off (wings, dash, scuttle) so panel replacement is a fairly big deal.

I could fit an ecotec, but this would require a new manifold for my carbs and a new exhaust as the ports are different. Definitely an option though as my bellhousing etc would still be usable and I'd be able to get a V5.


I didn't say anything about removing the panels or damaging it.


How far down does your sump go? The exhaust should be in the same axis. Just some sort of a U bend under the lower rails and also to flatten it a bit to give you some more clearance.



also, you could lift the suspension to max to gain some more clearance

[Edited on 20/7/10 by l0rd]


l0rd - 20/7/10 at 08:06 PM

my thought
my thought


my thought


cd.thomson - 20/7/10 at 08:39 PM

no sorry mate, i meant your idea was better than the idea of cutting out the panel .

ah I see what you mean now, run the original manifold out under the chassis rail and have the cat/back box in a similar position to my can now!

I was trying to figure out how id put a cat/back box underneath the car!


l0rd - 20/7/10 at 08:53 PM

quote:
Originally posted by cd.thomson
no sorry mate, i meant your idea was better than the idea of cutting out the panel .

ah I see what you mean now, run the original manifold out under the chassis rail and have the cat/back box in a similar position to my can now!

I was trying to figure out how id put a cat/back box underneath the car!


Exactly. My only worry will be the engine mount. But heyyy life aint easy.

[Edited on 20/7/10 by l0rd]


adithorp - 20/7/10 at 09:12 PM

Just for info... you'd be lucky to get through a BETS test with the bike can/cat. Bikes emmision requirements are lower than cars and the cat won't be big enough for the job.

adrian

ps. stick with it...it wil be worth it.


cd.thomson - 21/7/10 at 08:01 AM

Thanks for the info Adrian.


l0rd - 21/7/10 at 08:32 AM

Let us know of your decision so we can stop looking for engine age


cd.thomson - 21/7/10 at 08:36 AM

Haha, you can stop looking, I've done all sorts of digging over the last couple of days and I've got nothing.

Proving engine age isn't going to possible so it has to be engine transplant/new exhaust/new test circa £500.


franky - 21/7/10 at 09:21 AM

I know its expensive but would a new test at another centre not be the best solution as I know it will cost more but the cost of getting another motor getting it all swapped about and the time involved would be quite large too. If you added up all the associated costs i'm sure a test at another station would work out faster/cheaper in the long run.


Liam - 21/7/10 at 09:26 AM

Well there was one last hope - my vaux contact said you might try a letter in your best German to the records dept in Ruesselsheim and they may be able to tie your engine no to its original chassis no. Probably a very slim chance though! Nah I reckon the engine swap (or just block as above) or cobbled together exhaust are the best options.

A different test location is risky unless you have it confirmed beforehand that they will accept your engine age.

[Edited on 21/7/10 by Liam]


l0rd - 21/7/10 at 10:25 AM

just do the exhaust and nothing else as i suggested in the previous posts.

Manifold can be found for less than 20
Cat can be found for 40
silencer can be found for 40-70
pipe, bends etc can be found and done for less than 30

The cheapest solution.


stevegough - 21/7/10 at 09:55 PM

Craig - sorry to read the problems you are having with the final hurdle - just a thought - doesn't your engine have a date cast in the block like mine? - Next question - is that not sufficient for the examiner?

If you are having this problem, then I might struggle, too because even though I have a photocopy of the V5 from the calibra, there is a typo error on the engine number - the last 3 digits are reversed. A jobsworth is not going to be impressed methinks.

Pic of mine.... (below left - hand engine mount). - Sorry, can't upload photos on this thread for some reason? See in my archive pics under 'engine codes'.


cd.thomson - 22/7/10 at 08:04 AM

quote:
Originally posted by stevegough
Craig - sorry to read the problems you are having with the final hurdle - just a thought - doesn't your engine have a date cast in the block like mine? - Next question - is that not sufficient for the examiner?

If you are having this problem, then I might struggle, too because even though I have a photocopy of the V5 from the calibra, there is a typo error on the engine number - the last 3 digits are reversed. A jobsworth is not going to be impressed methinks.

Pic of mine.... (below left - hand engine mount). - Sorry, can't upload photos on this thread for some reason? See in my archive pics under 'engine codes'.


Steve, 10s of C20XE engined cars have made their way onto the road using the documentation I have access too. You'll be fine as long as you don't go to derby!

I'll check for a date stamp but I think thats only on the early models.

I know people probably wont be reading this thread now as it wont appear on the front page, but can anyone/does anyone know somebody who could fab me up the worldest cheapest, crumbiest, cat-inclusive exhaust system if I give them the car?


Rocket_Rabbit - 22/7/10 at 10:12 PM

quote:
Originally posted by cd.thomson
DVLA require pictures of the engine

I once saw a photo of a push bike with a V8 engine on it.

I once saw a photo of a Shark trying to eat a helicopter.

Both were awesome, but I couldn't help thinking how something like that couldn't have happened???

Something completely unrelated, My Mrs is into Photography, apparently ADOBE PHOTOSHOP helps.

I'm sure it'll all be fine