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Cylinder head bolt siezed
Benzine - 6/5/09 at 09:57 PM

Undid 7 bolts fine and obviously the last one decides it wants to stay there. I've been applying penetrating fluid since it happened a couple of days ago. I've tried welding a nut onto it but it never holds. I've tried heating the nut & bolt first, the weld looks great but then it fails

I have 30mm to play with, what are my options? If I go down the welding path again, how is best to do it? So far I've put the nut on about half way and welded up the "bowl" that's left. I haven't welded underneath the bolt yet aswell as the top, try that? Take it to a machine shop and let them do it?




FANX


omega0684 - 6/5/09 at 10:01 PM

errrr where is the head of the bolt?


austin man - 6/5/09 at 10:02 PM

have you tried using a pair of stilsons. apply wd 40 and heat use the loosen tighten method to help it on its way keep heating and spraying the oil as you go. If you keep welding to it you will end up softening the bolt


austin man - 6/5/09 at 10:07 PM

forgot to mention, if it snaps on the block face take it to an engineer who will either be able to extract or redrill an tap the block. Had a similar problem with the engine on my little Austin (avtar) local engineer removed the remains and retapped all for a tenner I spent 5 hours on the frikkin thing, knackered loads of drill bits and killed my strud extractor set


Benzine - 6/5/09 at 10:10 PM

quote:
Originally posted by omega0684
errrr where is the head of the bolt?


It died a thousand deaths. I placed a coin in it's mouth so that Charon would row it across the river Stix to the afterlife

(it snapped off)



quote:
Originally posted by austin man
have you tried using a pair of stilsons. apply wd 40 and heat use the loosen tighten method to help it on its way keep heating and spraying the oil as you go. If you keep welding to it you will end up softening the bolt


yeah tried stilsons, needs moar power


quote:
Originally posted by austin man
forgot to mention, if it snaps on the block face take it to an engineer who will either be able to extract or redrill an tap the block. Had a similar problem with the engine on my little Austin (avtar) local engineer removed the remains and retapped all for a tenner I spent 5 hours on the frikkin thing, knackered loads of drill bits and killed my strud extractor set


Yeah it's probably going to save me lots of swearing to get a pr0 to do it


tendoshingan - 6/5/09 at 10:11 PM

I had exactly the same problem.
Actually mine was slightly worse because my bolt sheared off next to the head.
Caused by lots of rust due to blown head gasket.
Anyway, I used lots and lots of wd40 and scraped off the rust around the bolt.
Ended up welding onto the bolt to create a T-bar to undo it.
Eventually after a few hours managed to get it out then re-tapped the hole.
Good luck with it


RichardK - 6/5/09 at 10:13 PM

Have you tried 2 nuts tightened against each other then having a go on the bottom one to try and unscrew?

May be worth a shot.

Cheers

Rich


balidey - 6/5/09 at 10:14 PM

rather than weld a nut on, have you tried locking two nuts together?
And have you tried tightening a 1/4 turn first?

Failing that, let your other half have a go, that way it WILL budge and then you can say you loosened it for her.


MikeRJ - 6/5/09 at 10:18 PM

Firstly beat the crap out of it with a hammer. No really, do it. Some smart blows directly on top of the remaining stud will help break the bond between the threads.

When you weld a nut on, it's a waste of time trying to fill the inside of a nut as you have found (tried that many times when I've had only a small amount of stud remaining, hardly ever works). Get a nut that fits over the stud and push it all the way through with some protruding before welding it with lots of current.

When you have a nut securely attached, work the stud both ways, tightening and loosening and apply regular applications of the hammer on the top and plenty of penetrating fluid.

[Edited on 6/5/09 by MikeRJ]


Benzine - 6/5/09 at 10:33 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
Quitter!!Can we please exclude him from the Sacred Order of the LocostBuilders please? Fozzie??


Yeah you're right ^__^ I'll keep trying


Yeah I've tried putting other nuts on and then spannering the bottom nut (I can get 3 nuts on there with thread to spare) and it still didn't shift and I've been hitting it too ^__^

I think i'll try the welding again tomorrow and crank the power up more

[Edited on 6/5/09 by Benzine]


Volvorsport - 6/5/09 at 11:48 PM

yeah , get a nut that goes all the way over the threads , make a huge fillet weld with lots of heat .

i would think if you get it cherry red (the stud) and it still doesnt want to move after chilling it , you need to seek a professional who can drill it out accurately(im sure you could do it yourself) otherwise block may be scrap


UncleFista - 7/5/09 at 12:04 AM

I've had most success with the welding method when I've whacked the power right up and welded it until it's almost white hot It's the heat more than owt that does it.


speedyxjs - 7/5/09 at 06:52 AM

Id second the blow with a hammer. Its normally enough to get a bit of movement in it, then weld the nut all round and have another go


02GF74 - 7/5/09 at 06:54 AM

is it aluminium block?

if you can warm up the block then apply a damp cloth to the stud and try to undo, you would need to make a big BBQ pit to get any heat into the block though - it will laugh in the face of puny gas torch.

can you weld two nuts on, aligned so you can get a deep socket on?

then with big bar under tension, give it one big push - either it/nut(s) will snap off or it will move.

in the meantime get a scriber and clean the gap between block and the "stud" and apply penetrating fluid - the proper stuff, not wd40.

my money is on it shearing off.


britishtrident - 7/5/09 at 07:05 AM

Heat it as hot as possible then let it cool soak in Plus Gas penetrating fluid.(best freeing agent)


Then use a proper stud extractor

http://www.agriemach.com/product_info.php?products_id=1126

http://www.diytools.co.uk/diy/Main/sp-63-4603-26066-draper-stud-extractor-1-2%22-drive-(6-19mm).asp

http://www.diytools.co.uk/diy/Main/sp-63-4603-41028-draper-12mm-stud-extractor.asp Rescued attachment 400.jpg
Rescued attachment 400.jpg


Benzine - 7/5/09 at 09:13 AM

None of the local factors have plus gas. I've been using 3-in-1 penetrating spray (not just general lube/WD-40) although I don't know how well that compares to something like plus gas (which seems to have rave reviews)

Edit: last factors I tried has it in ^__^

[Edited on 7/5/09 by Benzine]


eznfrank - 7/5/09 at 10:50 AM

Is it threaded all the way down? Most are blank for the bit that goes into the head and are only threaded when it gets to the block? If that's the case you should be able to cut the head of the bolt and just slide the head off giving you much more room to play with??

I'm sure that's what I ended up doing with my old Alfa??


AndyGT - 7/5/09 at 11:34 AM

Have you tried:




Just a few ideas.... Plus as ^^^^ with slackening and tightening technique.

Good luck
Andy


Benzine - 7/5/09 at 12:02 PM

quote:
Originally posted by eznfrank
Is it threaded all the way down? Most are blank for the bit that goes into the head and are only threaded when it gets to the block? If that's the case you should be able to cut the head of the bolt and just slide the head off giving you much more room to play with??

I'm sure that's what I ended up doing with my old Alfa??


Not seen the pic in the first post?



Well I just tried welding two nuts on. I got them both red hot and cranked up the welder. The welds didn't fail this time but the bolt did shear again. So now I've got about 15mm to play with


eznfrank - 7/5/09 at 12:07 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Benzine
quote:
Originally posted by eznfrank
Is it threaded all the way down? Most are blank for the bit that goes into the head and are only threaded when it gets to the block? If that's the case you should be able to cut the head of the bolt and just slide the head off giving you much more room to play with??

I'm sure that's what I ended up doing with my old Alfa??


Not seen the pic in the first post?




Ah......I'm at work, I didn't realise there was a pic, my work PC is poo and never loads them.

Edit - Hahahaha I just looked at the photo via my phone - I bet I sounded like a right jackass trying to be all clever.

[Edited on 7/5/09 by eznfrank]


Benzine - 7/5/09 at 12:12 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
Bugger. Well in the absence of a proper stud extractor and PlusGas, i'd have to say now might be the time to give the 15mm remaining to a better equipped engineering shop. You could try the same trick again with the remaining 15mm and it could well work..... but if not its likely to sheer flush with the block rather than directly below the nut where its likelybeen heat-weakened


I got some PlusGas and left it soaking in for a couple of hours first. How do I go about finding a local machine shop? There are so many little businesses in my area that I have no idea about, I've often stumbled across shot blasting places, powder coating places etc that aren't listed anywhere, purely known by word of mouth? It's mad.


bitsilly - 8/5/09 at 05:51 PM

Sharpen the stilsons and/or get a line of weld down the side to help them grip.