ReMan
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| posted on 10/8/16 at 11:14 AM |
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Boundary fun
A close personal friend is having a bit of an issue with a boundary fence, that has the potential to become a planning issue.
Keeping this as short as can be his house has a conservatory that was built over 15 years ago before he bought the house, the wall of which is built
to the centreline of the semi detached house.
He understands it was built by the previous owner even before the his neighbours moved in a few years before this.
Said neighbour has now decided that the foundations will be in the way of his new boundary fence posts and will cause an issue.
I've looked on the internet!! and it seems very unclear what the timeframe would be for the neighbour to insist his conservatory is pulled down,
if at all and if it depends on local regulations?
I know there's a few previous questions on here around building regs and the like so any thoughts?
www.plusnine.co.uk
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Dick Axtell
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| posted on 10/8/16 at 11:28 AM |
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Interesting situation! However, one thing occurs to me - how come solicitors involved in either neighbours' house purchase, or your own purchase
process, didn't get this matter sorted at the start?
Aren't there some clearly identifiable boundaries marked on each property's land registry details?
[Edited on 10/8/16 by Dick Axtell]
Work-in-Progress: Changed to Zetec + T9. Still trying!!
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Sam_68
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| posted on 10/8/16 at 11:28 AM |
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Keeping it equally short and simple, Planning basically has no control over these sorts of land ownership issues.
Technically, a Planning approval can be rendered invalid if it was made on land that someone else owned and the applicant didn't serve the
relevant notice upon them, but that's not going to be an issue, here, for reasons I won't bore you with.
Tell your friend to Google the Land Registry guidance on 'adverse possession', and Government guidance on the Party Wall Act, which are
the two areas of law that DO apply in this instance.
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 10/8/16 at 11:29 AM |
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Most councils will probably advise that 15 years is a reasonable amount of time and that things should be left as is
We had a similar situation at our old house. The fence wasn't straight and the last few posts migrated towards our property.
So when I put new fence posts in, I straightened it all up matching the boundary at the front of the house.
Neighbour politely complained and we left it up to the council to decide.
I had to move the posts back because of the amount of time the old ones had been there, even though there was an obvious deviation in the fence line.
Ben
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Sam_68
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| posted on 10/8/16 at 11:57 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben_Copeland
Most councils will probably advise that 15 years is a reasonable amount of time and that things should be left as is
I repeat; this is not something that is controlled by the Planning Act, therefore Local Authorities have no interest and no powers of intervention.
If the Council did intervene, in your case, then they were actually acting 'ultra vires' (literally 'above the law'... beyond
their powers and authority).
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nick205
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| posted on 10/8/16 at 12:23 PM |
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I suppose it may be beyond reasonable discussion between neighbours, but that would seem the quickest (and cheapest) way of resolving it.
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ReMan
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| posted on 10/8/16 at 01:54 PM |
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Thanks for the initial feedback.
I'll have a Google when I get home from work.
Om top of everything else we've had in the last 2 years and still got coming the Mrs (I mean my CPF) really don't need the stress of the
conservatory being pulled down!
"I suppose it may be beyond reasonable discussion between neighbours, but that would seem the quickest (and cheapest) way of resolving
it."
Agreed, been trying to, but the neighbour has gone into hiding now I've not pulled it down for him,, so we suspect that they're reviewing
the legal options. so wanted to prepare a bit ourselves
"how come solicitors involved in either neighbours' house purchase, or your own purchase process, didn't get this matter sorted at
the start? "
I guess its was not noticed by either inspector, or not deemed important, perhaps a line of recourse, but again, after so long?
www.plusnine.co.uk
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Jeano
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| posted on 10/8/16 at 02:09 PM |
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This is not a planning issue, under permitted development they would have been able to build and get a building control sign off which would only be
interested in quality of the build in line with regulations.
What you have here is a party wall issue, for which there are a lot of specialists surveyors in the market.
The key element of law he needs to look at is adverse possession.
Adverse Possession is when
The owner of land can sometimes lose ownership to a trespasser by "adverse possession". The law is complicated:
Where the land is unregistered or where the land is registered but the trespasser notched up 14 years adverse possession before 13 October 2003, when
the Land Registration Act 2002 came into force, one set of rules will apply.
On the other hand where the land is registered and the trespasser did not acquire 14 years adverse possession prior to that date the provisions of the
2002 Act, which are very different, will apply. Under that Act the trespasser must show 10 years adverse possession in order to apply for registration
but there are then extra provisions to be taken into account.
However as its something so minor i would advise him to allow them to resin the posts through his wall? or come up with an alternative detail.
KR
JM
Surveyor (Unfortunately not party wall specialist)
Location: Essex
Drives: MK Indy F20c with hairdryer
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Jeano
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| posted on 10/8/16 at 02:15 PM |
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Just read through this again, please note, they cant tell you to pull your conservatory down, its on your land, what we have here is a prize plank.
Also if you need support it wont be cheap and i would discuss with him first but i would appoint someone from here:
http://www.ricsfirms.com/search/leicestershire;party-walls;surveyor
Location: Essex
Drives: MK Indy F20c with hairdryer
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ReMan
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| posted on 10/8/16 at 03:04 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeano
Just read through this again, please note, they cant tell you to pull your conservatory down, its on your land, what we have here is a prize plank.
Also if you need support it wont be cheap and i would discuss with him first but i would appoint someone from here:
http://www.ricsfirms.com/search/leicestershire;party-walls;surveyor
As mentioned I'm at work so will read properly later....
His last mumblings were that although the wall is on the centreline, the footings are on his side, "And there shoud be a 6 inch gap"
??
So he cant sink a fencepost to continue the line of the fence , or build a conservatory himself............
www.plusnine.co.uk
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Slimy38
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| posted on 10/8/16 at 03:29 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ReMan
His last mumblings were that although the wall is on the centreline, the footings are on his side, "And there shoud be a 6 inch gap"
??
??? I don't remember anything about a gap when I had our extension built, we were able to build right up to the edge of our boundary.
Not to be too pedantic, but surely if the conservatory wasn't there, he'd have to spread on to your land for his fence posts. What was he
going to do, keep the postcrete just on three sides of the posts? I don't think so.
As a compromise, would you permit him to bolt the fence posts to the conservatory wall? Although probably offering to do it for him might be better so
he doesn't just drill straight through!!
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ReMan
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| posted on 10/8/16 at 05:46 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Slimy38
quote:
Originally posted by ReMan
His last mumblings were that although the wall is on the centreline, the footings are on his side, "And there shoud be a 6 inch gap"
??
??? I don't remember anything about a gap when I had our extension built, we were able to build right up to the edge of our boundary.
Not to be too pedantic, but surely if the conservatory wasn't there, he'd have to spread on to your land for his fence posts. What was he
going to do, keep the postcrete just on three sides of the posts? I don't think so.
As a compromise, would you permit him to bolt the fence posts to the conservatory wall? Although probably offering to do it for him might be better so
he doesn't just drill straight through!!
Yes happy to do a compromise 'like so.
Wouldn't mind but at the start of the project (nearly 3 months ago) I even helped him shift the bulk of the old hedge that he's removed to
make room for the fence, to the tip.
Problem is he started at the furthest point from the house and is now realising he hasn't got a proper plan and we've got a gaping hole
with no hedge and no new fence now
I'll post a picture when I'm home, leaving now
www.plusnine.co.uk
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coozer
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| posted on 10/8/16 at 06:06 PM |
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When I lived in my terraced house 30 years ago I built a garage size shed at the bottom of the yard. The pitch roof just hung over about 3" of
the wall which was double brick so on my side...
Nosey next door had a good moan about rain running onto the wall and into his yard. Threatened me with the council who came out and just shook their
heads and walked away. He then threatened with his son who indeed knocked on the door and I pushed him back and asked what the fook he was going to
do, he backed off sharpish.
Then he had another moan when I went on the roof and cut the wires for his aerial going round the chimney 
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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balidey
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| posted on 10/8/16 at 07:57 PM |
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For the sake of one post, could he not use one of these?
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Landscaping/d130/Fence+Post+Metalwork+%26+Tools/sd3224/Bolt+Down+Post+Shoe/p42734
Dutch bears have terrible skin due to their clogged paws
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ReMan
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| posted on 10/8/16 at 08:59 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by balidey
For the sake of one post, could he not use one of these?
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Landscaping/d130/Fence+Post+Metalwork+%26+Tools/sd3224/Bolt+Down+Post+Shoe/p42734
He could but he'd be losing even more of his patio.
He shouldn't need to fence at all as the wall is 5ft plus with a ft of opaque glass sp he could grow plants on it for me!
www.plusnine.co.uk
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ReMan
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| posted on 10/8/16 at 09:01 PM |
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Bit later than hoped.
Here the google view if this makes it a bit clearer?
 
boundary
The boundaries extend parallels but there is a kick in all the gardens at about the conservatory depth, they are all crooked there,
As said the main concern is that it can be pulled down, anything else happy to accommodate
[Edited on 10/8/16 by ReMan]
www.plusnine.co.uk
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Jeano
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| posted on 11/8/16 at 07:42 AM |
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Adverse Possession would still be the case for foundations as well, they have no right. i would not worry.
Should he wish to build a conservatory he could underpin your section of foundation and build alongside it.
Location: Essex
Drives: MK Indy F20c with hairdryer
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Jeano
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| posted on 11/8/16 at 07:45 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ReMan
As said the main concern is that it can be pulled down, anything else happy to accommodate
[Edited on 10/8/16 by ReMan]
Planning has no ability to do this.
Building control have no ability to do this.
Civil courts would be the only case, they indeed have no ability to do this due to Adverse Possession. I wouldnt worry about this.
Its all kicking off about a fence.
use the bolt in feet shown above, grind off one side then use some raw bolts into the brickwork to provide some additional stength.
Location: Essex
Drives: MK Indy F20c with hairdryer
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ReMan
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| posted on 11/8/16 at 08:05 PM |
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Thanks for the support guys ,
I've had a read through the party wall and adverse possession stuff. I'm a bit hard off understanding though as to what COULD happen
worst case in the circumstances legally, though as said it does appear that the 6" gap from wall to boundary requirement is a fallacy?
Just need button be confident enough to tell him to get over himself and make best of a bad job
www.plusnine.co.uk
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