maccmike
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| posted on 17/6/13 at 10:12 PM |
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House electrics
I require some help,
Bought a dimmer switch, 2 knobs, 1 way.
So, each unit behind each knob has a common inlet (constant feed) and a switched live (L1).
Iv chased some plaster out to have 2 wall mounted lights.
The ceiling light comes to the dimmer, red, black and earth, wiring these up its fine and works.
Trying to incorporate the the wall lights on the sister knob, it wont work properly.
If I bridge the feed off the common to the second common, the wall lights are constantly on and only the ceiling is dimmerable.
Any suggestions?
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slingshot2000
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| posted on 17/6/13 at 10:38 PM |
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Get an electrician in to do the job before you kill yourself, or more importantly; an innocent by-passer!
You need a neutral, and it is very, very, very unusual to find one at a light switch!
Play safely, ELECTRICITY KILLS !
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maccmike
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| posted on 17/6/13 at 10:46 PM |
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hehehe thanks, although Id be a bit upset if some one was passing by my living room!
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slingshot2000
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| posted on 17/6/13 at 10:52 PM |
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With regards to innocent by-passer, I meant anyone innocent not to be trying to mess about with 240 volt AC !
This could include; a g/f, OH, children or visitors.
ELECTRICITY KILLS; ask anyone who has sat in America's "Old Sparky" to tell you otherwise . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Get an electrician to show you, but don't hold his hand while he does !
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cliftyhanger
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| posted on 18/6/13 at 08:19 AM |
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have a dig around, there must be a wiring diagram somewhere. Or maybe you have the wrong switch (there is all sorts of funny stuff out there)
However, I don't see this as dangerous, the op isn't saying he will be leaving exposed wires. Just wants to know where to put each wire. I
suspect you are allowed to change a lightswitch without having to get a sparky in.
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maccmike
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| posted on 18/6/13 at 08:40 AM |
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Yes I couldnt agree more. It aint rocket science.
I can get either circuit to work correctly, not just simultaneously.
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twybrow
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| posted on 18/6/13 at 09:45 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by cliftyhanger
have a dig around, there must be a wiring diagram somewhere. Or maybe you have the wrong switch (there is all sorts of funny stuff out there)
However, I don't see this as dangerous, the op isn't saying he will be leaving exposed wires. Just wants to know where to put each wire. I
suspect you are allowed to change a lightswitch without having to get a sparky in.
A 'competent person' is allowed to change a light switch/fitting on a like for like basis - the exception to this is you are not allowed
to do anything in bathrooms, kitchens and outdoors.... This was what the building regs people from my local council told me when I rewired my house.
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chrism
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| posted on 18/6/13 at 10:10 AM |
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You are allowed to do electrics in Kitchens, Bathrooms and outside yourself, but it has to be inspected and certificated to Part P by a professional,
there is no law to say you cannot do it yourself as far as I'm aware, unless it has changed again.
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A little hard work never killed anyone, but why take the risk!
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Litemoth
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| posted on 18/6/13 at 10:34 AM |
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Are the wall lights using low voltage or energy saving bulbs?
 
Description
[Edited on 18/6/13 by Litemoth]
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JoelP
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| posted on 18/6/13 at 11:33 AM |
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"Dont see it as dangerous"
Probably not indeed, but the fact it doesnt work does indicate OP isnt quite up to scratch, in which case, since none of us know what we dont know,
who can say what else might get done wrong?
If you only have a red and black at the switch, then you cannot use it to power another light - as said in the first reply, you dont have a neutral.
The black is a switched live and should be sleeved red. You might well get the lights working in series at a lower voltage, but thats not remotely how
it should be done.
[Edited on 18/6/13 by JoelP]
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cliftyhanger
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| posted on 18/6/13 at 12:36 PM |
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Fair point about what we don't know. But I rewired a few houses before the regs changed.
When they were inspected (for a HMO licence) there were loads of faults. Well, on every light switch I hadn't sleeved the blacks to red. And the
consumer unit needed a sticker, to do with old colours or something. And some bits of trunking were damaged.
In fact, I still haven't seen red sleeving (or brown I guess for recent stuff) on a single switch. Ever.
Anyway, my point is that as long as people are sensible, and ask when unsure, then there is very very little danger. In fact, I reckon very very few
people have been killed by home-installed electrics. Probably less than ten in the last 20 years?? admittedly that excludes blatantly stupid stuff
like hairdriers in the bath and so on....
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BenB
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| posted on 18/6/13 at 12:50 PM |
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As said the problem is that you haven't got a neutral at the switch. A "normal" switch just requires a positive live supply going to
it and a return wire for the switched live back to the light rose. The wire that is normally the neutral at the switch should be sleeved to show this
(but often isn't). If you want to use a dimmer you will have to chase the wiring back to the ceiling rose.
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Litemoth
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| posted on 18/6/13 at 12:52 PM |
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Jeees...
We all realise that these things can be dangerous but I have to say that there some right tight-bummed people acting up on this thread.
The natural conclusion for that approach is that car building should be left to professionals and not left to blokes in garages having a go then
driving down the same road as the school minibus.
Shonky welding and duff brakes pose more risk to passers by than this chap's light switch.
I (and millions of others) can walk into the kitchen, turn on a supply of natural gas (on the hob) and blow myself to kingdom come by not using the
match properly .....but it rarely does happen now does it? I'm not gas safe registered or trained in explosive, suffocating gasses in any formal
way 
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Aaron_n_Sim
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| posted on 18/6/13 at 01:39 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Litemoth
Jeees...
We all realise that these things can be dangerous but I have to say that there some right tight-bummed people acting up on this thread.
The natural conclusion for that approach is that car building should be left to professionals and not left to blokes in garages having a go then
driving down the same road as the school minibus.
Shonky welding and duff brakes pose more risk to passers by than this chap's light switch.
I (and millions of others) can walk into the kitchen, turn on a supply of natural gas (on the hob) and blow myself to kingdom come by not using the
match properly .....but it rarely does happen now does it? I'm not gas safe registered or trained in explosive, suffocating gasses in any formal
way
+1 Ive got a qualified (part p not current) electrician mate I call, he tells me how to do a job, if you can follow instructions you can do it!
Aaron
Work to Live don't Live to Work
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twybrow
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| posted on 18/6/13 at 02:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by chrism
You are allowed to do electrics in Kitchens, Bathrooms and outside yourself, but it has to be inspected and certificated to Part P by a professional,
there is no law to say you cannot do it yourself as far as I'm aware, unless it has changed again.
Exactly - my statement relates to work you can legally do without an inspection/sign off. I rewired my entire house, but it had to be signed off. To
change a light fitting/switch on a like for like does not.
I agree about the sentiment of 'if we can build a car then we can do house electrics', but remember we all went through SVA/IVA, which is
a form of sign off, just like having your wiring inspected/tested. I am not saying don't do it yourself, far from it, I am just pointing out
what is allowed by law (not the same as what I would do!).
Cliftyhanger - it looks like it is more dangerous than you think!
One death per week! 
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maccmike
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| posted on 18/6/13 at 02:40 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Litemoth
Are the wall lights using low voltage or energy saving bulbs?
Description
[Edited on 18/6/13 by Litemoth]
Thats the image I want. Cheers for that.
The test lights are energy bulbs but they'll be going once finished plastering etc.
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whitestu
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| posted on 18/6/13 at 03:00 PM |
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quote:
+1 Ive got a qualified (part p not current) electrician mate I call, he tells me how to do a job, if you can follow instructions you can do it!
Part P is part of the building regs, not a qualification. It's quite easy to be part P registered and know bu**er all about electrics.
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cliftyhanger
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| posted on 18/6/13 at 03:47 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by twybrow
Cliftyhanger - it looks like it is more dangerous than you think!
One death per week!
look at the figures again.
the 2 most common causes are faulty appliances and drilling/cutting through cables. I really suspect it is a tiny number caused by DIY installation.
In fact the biggest risk is probably fires caused by undersized cables or bad connections.
Anyway, if in doubt, get it checked or somebody to do it for/with you
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twybrow
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| posted on 18/6/13 at 03:57 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by cliftyhanger
quote:
Originally posted by twybrow
Cliftyhanger - it looks like it is more dangerous than you think!
One death per week!
look at the figures again.
the 2 most common causes are faulty appliances and drilling/cutting through cables. I really suspect it is a tiny number caused by DIY installation.
In fact the biggest risk is probably fires caused by undersized cables or bad connections.
Anyway, if in doubt, get it checked or somebody to do it for/with you
Drilling/cutting through cables is a DIY mistake! Bad connection, or undersized wires would also be something that a novice is more likely to do than
a professional!
I am paranoid about electricity.... I am happy to do plumbing, as a flooded house takes a long time to kill you, but electricity can kill! I always
turn off the mains supply before working on any circuit in the house - that way I am a long way from the dangerous bit when I switch it back on...! 
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 18/6/13 at 05:30 PM |
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If you came into my house when I first bought it you'd realise why there are rules in place to get this done properly. That said, I'd do
it myself too. And I'm equally happy with my capabilities as the person who did them before me, only their self-trust was heavily mis-placed (in
a fire-generating, colossal short on an incorrectly sized fuse kind of way).
Any of this is easy enough, and when you know what you're doing and you're the only person involved you can safely ignore some items of
"regulation" but in a house sale you're rarely the only person involved and the regs are there for a reason.
As for building cars to use on the same roads as school buses - sure, that's why there's an IVA. Much like the part-P checks. And if
you're competent you've nothing to worry about.
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maccmike
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| posted on 18/6/13 at 09:04 PM |
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done and dusted.
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Litemoth
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| posted on 18/6/13 at 09:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by maccmike
The test lights are energy bulbs but they'll be going once finished plastering etc.
Aha! Dimmers and low energy bulbs aren't usually compatible.
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