JoelP
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| posted on 10/12/23 at 09:06 PM |
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As if to prove my point, he's back in the news today for having let Alex Jones back onto twitter. The guy who said the Sandy Hook massacre was
staged, and all the bereaved parents were actors. Elon Musk has no moral compass at all. He can't see past the pretty American obsession with
free speech.
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craig1410
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| posted on 13/12/23 at 02:41 PM |
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More Tesla news - glad to see the "self driving" nonsense getting the scrutiny it needs finally.
Headline: Elon Musk's Tesla recalls two million cars over Autopilot defect
Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-67693935
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Slimy38
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| posted on 13/12/23 at 03:31 PM |
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Somewhat related to his cars, there is a scene in 'Leave the World Behind' (a current Netflix film) around Teslas, I won't spoil it as
the film is quite entertaining but if you're not bothered about the film I suggest a quick Google. The scene itself is part entertaining, part
laugh out loud funny, but also actually quite terrifying.
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craig1410
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| posted on 13/12/23 at 11:25 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Slimy38
Somewhat related to his cars, there is a scene in 'Leave the World Behind' (a current Netflix film) around Teslas, I won't spoil it as
the film is quite entertaining but if you're not bothered about the film I suggest a quick Google. The scene itself is part entertaining, part
laugh out loud funny, but also actually quite terrifying.
Watched the movie tonight - quite entertaining as you say, although I think the concept itself could have resulted in a REALLY great movie. Maybe one
of the big studios will pick up the idea and run with it a bit more. The Tesla scene is pretty good - I'm going to guess that Tesla didn't
endorse it but with musk you just never know! He sure has done more stupid things!
Thanks for the tip.
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 14/12/23 at 08:57 AM |
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I'm more amazed that people are willing to spend - "In the US, the full-self driving package costs $12,000, or a $199 monthly subscription
fee." just so they don't have to "drive" their nice fancy Tesla. Where's the fun in that? is driving them really so bad?
It's not like you can go and have a sleep or watch a film, you still have to hold the wheel and look where your going, so what on earth is the
point of something that is just glorified cruse control. Tbh it sounds just as daft as the BMW heated seat subscription BS.
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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craig1410
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| posted on 14/12/23 at 11:50 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
I'm more amazed that people are willing to spend - "In the US, the full-self driving package costs $12,000, or a $199 monthly subscription
fee." just so they don't have to "drive" their nice fancy Tesla. Where's the fun in that? is driving them really so bad?
It's not like you can go and have a sleep or watch a film, you still have to hold the wheel and look where your going, so what on earth is the
point of something that is just glorified cruse control. Tbh it sounds just as daft as the BMW heated seat subscription BS.
I think the recent recall is because the Tesla isn't actually strictly enforcing the requirement to hold the wheel and look ahead. And because it
does a decent job of self driving, right up until it swerves off the road, or suddenly stops, or runs through an intersection, people get complacent
and start relying on it. Imagine if 1 time out of every 100, your brake pedal didn't work...
It amazes me why anyone would want to drive a Tesla at all never mind pay $12000 to make it drive itself. The entire user interface is a complete
disaster with the reliance on the touch screen for things that are WAY better as physical controls. That would drive me nuts! I can reach out and
operate any control in my 2008 BMW 535d without taking my eyes off the road but that's not the case with a touchscreen which has no tactile
feedback. Maybe that's why the self driving feature was invented - so that the car can drive while you search the touchscreen for the button to
turn on the heated seats! 
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 14/12/23 at 03:06 PM |
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It's about time they pass a law that requires all display's and controls (hi-fi and heating too) to located directly in front of the driver
at eye level. Voice control has progressed where most operations could be performed that way and not scrolling through some dumb computer monitor in
the middle of the dash.
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 30/12/23 at 04:09 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
One of the things you have to keep in mind with EV's is their range stated is not done at 70mph, more like 55mph which is not practical if your
on the motorway, it will just hammer your range. Although in town they will go all day long on a single charge.
Also in the winter there is a huge drop in range and even charge speed. For example, in the summer our Leaf shows 130miles, and if I take it easy I
can and have got close to that. But in the winter it's just scraping by doing a 49mile round trip to the girls gymnastic driving at just 55mph
and shows only 14miles left by the end of it! Ok it's an old gen car but the battery is in very good condition. This is just what EV's are
like in real life, just watch some YouTube real reviews by owners and you'll see this is the case.
I'm sorry mate, but that's bollocks. (but maybe not with a Leaf!)
I have a Kia Niro EV - summer range approaching 300 miles, winter range 260, more than enough for me. I have often done long journeys at legal
motorway speeds and maybe have lost 10 or 20 miles on initial estimated range. The GOM (guess-o-meter) range is VERY accurate on the KIA, unlike my
old Nissan Leaf that was a blatant liar. At 70 mph in the Leaf I could see my range vanishing rapidly every mile I drove. Even my wife's
Renault Zoe does better, and that has similar initial range (and is of a similar generation).
A couple of years ago I drove from Suffolk to Skye, then to Dornoch (45 miles north of Inverness), on to Blairgowrie, and finally on to Lincoln and
back home to Suffolk. Various expeditions while we there. About 1500 miles, IIRC, in 2 weeks. No issues, apart from the Scottish chargers that were
very unreliable. Most of the long stages were either on motorways or fast A roads (like the A9). Range vanished rapidly as I went up Glencoe, but I
recovered most of it going back down the other side!
Don't make your judgement based on the Leaf, as good as the early models were (Nissan made some monumental cock-ups when they introduced the Mk 2
version, which I had).
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craig1410
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| posted on 30/12/23 at 05:06 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
One of the things you have to keep in mind with EV's is their range stated is not done at 70mph, more like 55mph which is not practical if your
on the motorway, it will just hammer your range. Although in town they will go all day long on a single charge.
Also in the winter there is a huge drop in range and even charge speed. For example, in the summer our Leaf shows 130miles, and if I take it easy I
can and have got close to that. But in the winter it's just scraping by doing a 49mile round trip to the girls gymnastic driving at just 55mph
and shows only 14miles left by the end of it! Ok it's an old gen car but the battery is in very good condition. This is just what EV's are
like in real life, just watch some YouTube real reviews by owners and you'll see this is the case.
Personally I think there is still a place for plug in hybrids even after 2030, so long as they have at least 40 miles pure electric range at 70mph.
Plus they should be capable of a maximum rapid charging time of 20mins & slow charging at work.
I agree with David, this is certainly NOT our experience after almost 7 years and 80k miles in our BMW i3. Ours is the 94Ah model (they came in 60Ah,
94Ah and more recently 120Ah models) and we get something like 120-130 miles in summer and around 105-110 miles in winter. This is just barely less on
what we got when new. I don't know much about the Leaf as I never liked the look or performance of them. I know many people don't like the
i3 looks either, in fact I was one of them when it first came out, but it grew on me as I understood more about the manufacturing process and ethos
behind it.
One thing that might make a difference is the fact we opted for the heat pump option when ordering our car. This is much more efficient at heating the
cabin than a simple heating element type heater. My wife and I also tend to make use of our heated seats and keep the cabin at 17 or 18C rather than
having the cabin at a higher temperature. I think the heat pump was something like a £500 option but I'm confident it will have paid for itself a
few times over already due to reduced energy costs. We actually prefer to have a warm body with cooler air around our faces so this isn't a
concession either.
The other thing that was unique to the i3 back when we bought ours was the pretty advanced thermal management system surrounding the batteries.
I'm sure it's not as unique these days but basically it aims to keep the battery cells at an optimum temperature for both charging and
discharging by circulating glycol liquid or gel around pipes inside the battery compartment. When you schedule the pre-conditioning feature of the car
to have it ready to go at a particular time in the morning (6:30am usually for my wife's commute) then it actually preconditions the battery
modules something like 3 hours in advance of that time so that it can top off the charge capacity those last few percent that you can't reach
when the batteries are cold. Then closer to departure time it heats up the cabin and defrosts the glass.
So maybe it's this thermal management system that means we can charge at the same speed in summer and winter, and we don't notice as much
drop off in range as Mr Whippy is describing. We very rarely charge the car outside of our home where we have a 7.4kW single phase charger, but
I've not noticed any slow charging on the fast chargers either. It's typically 20 mins from say 5% to 80% after which the charge speed
naturally tails off whether it's summer or winter for the last 20%.
As for the range at different road speeds, yes of course you get less range when travelling faster because there is more wind resistance and other
frictional losses. You also get less MPG in a petrol/diesel powered car for the same reasons. Where the EV differs from the ICE powered car is that
you get a much greater contrast between motorway driving and super-efficent city driving where the EV really excels.
An ICE powered car is generally most efficient at around 50MPH where it can run in top gear without labouring. But an EV is most efficient around the
city provided the driving style is maximising regeneration and not doing drag races between all the lights! So the contrast between city and motorway
is always much greater on an EV than an ICE car. In fact you might see similar ICE MPG doing 80MPH on the motorway as you do in a city in stop-start
traffic but for different reasons.
So if you have previously been mostly driving in town and your range indicator is predicting future range based on past range, then it will be
predicting a higher range. Then if you suddenly jump onto a motorway and drive 100 miles, then of course the car will have to change that future
prediction dramatically. It's the same if you normally drive efficiently and then you jump in and drive like a maniac! But when you realise that
this contrast is mostly because the EV is so efficient in town/city driving then it's actually a strength not a weakness.
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 30/12/23 at 08:22 PM |
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It's also worth noting that ICE cars are also less efficient in cold weather (but the difference is not so significant). Cold fluids in the
engine, much longer warm-up times, denser air are just some of the factors. Covered in this article:
Linky 1
And, before anyone says it, the car most likely to catch fire in the UK is a diesel...
Linky 2
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JoelP
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| posted on 30/12/23 at 09:37 PM |
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Do you mean 120kwh or 120Ah David? Not being pedantic, just curious about the unit. Ah wouldn't be very informative without knowing the voltage.
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craig1410
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| posted on 30/12/23 at 11:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
Do you mean 120kwh or 120Ah David? Not being pedantic, just curious about the unit. Ah wouldn't be very informative without knowing the voltage.
Did you mean to direct this question at David or me? I certainly mentioned 120Ah but I don't see anywhere that David mentioned it. If you meant
my reference then I did indeed mean to say 120Ah because that's how BMW specify the model. Our i3 is a 94Ah model and has a usable battery
capacity of 27.2kWh. The 60Ah model had a capacity of 18.8kWh and I think the 120Ah model has a capacity of 37.9 kWh.
Taking the 94Ah model which I'm most familiar with, it is specified as a 33.2kWh nominal and 27.2kWh usable which means the usable capacity is
82% of the nominal capacity. To me this is a very conservative depth of discharge and might be why the BMW retains capacity much longer than the
Nissan Leaf mentioned earlier. It might be that BMW hold back some of the capacity in the early years to allow it to be maintained for longer as it
reaches the end of the 8 year warranty period.
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 31/12/23 at 10:08 AM |
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Trust BMW to be different! My KIA is 64kWh useable capacity - real capacity is slightly higher but the battery management doesn't allow me to
use the bit at the top and won't allow me to fully discharge.
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JoelP
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| posted on 31/12/23 at 05:15 PM |
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My bad Craig, I did indeed mean you. Thanks for clarifying!
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 31/12/23 at 05:20 PM |
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Getting back to the topic - the Cybertruck really is a phenomenally ugly vehicle! It doesn't seem to have any merit as a truck, not much use as
a car, probably bad in an accident and probably stupidly expensive to repair.
I think I'll pass for now...
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 3/1/24 at 07:33 AM |
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Funnily enough I've given up on the electric cars and gone back to the old volvo as the range and charging was too much of a pain for what I
wanted to do with it. Yeah I could buy another newer car with larger capacity but the Leaf only just broke even with fuel saving vs the finance cost
and a new car would not.
However the wife is still hammering away at the leaf and loves it, she's put on 22,000 miles just last year alone and it hasn't put a foot
wrong despite her knack for destroying cars but it's just driven locally now. I was cleaning it yesterday and it's remarkable how clean the
engine bay and underside is, looks like new despite being 6 years old  plan is once it's at about 150k miles (depending on the life of the
battery) to do a battery swap for one with twice the capacity rather than replace the car.
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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