blakep82
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| posted on 17/11/10 at 06:48 PM | |
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but your wife/gf won't be touched by a man, it would have to be done by a woman. thats been the rules for any sort of pat down for years. and it
would be a man that has to touch you, which would be kinda ghey 
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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andrew
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| posted on 17/11/10 at 08:35 PM | |
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simple i will fly with the ones who get properly searched i dont mind,,, you can go with the snobs im better than you attitude risk getting blown out
of the sky ,,,
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FFTS
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| posted on 18/11/10 at 11:37 AM | |
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I love it.. social conditioning is alive and well 
Lots of opinions but none really addressing my points above. But they are being addressed here
HERE! No comments on why there aren't daily market/shopping
centre/clubs/town halls/trains & soft targets which are far more effective at achieving their aim to terrorise. Why not a huge cruise ship. (much
easier than an airplane)
Any price to stay safe hey.
By the way.. I didn't see any clear answers to the question "Would you stand by and watch your child genital area touched in the name od a
search?
Many presumptions above! Too answer some.
UncleFiesta - "Better a few 10's of people are injured rather than a few hundred exploding in mid-air and raining down on a city/town
somewhere... "I think you may underestimate the affects of a 50lb vest amongst a check in hall of thousands of people in an enclosed space..
10's? of people INJURED?
Tiger Super six & Twybrow- Where have I either implied or stated that ALL staff may be? Different opinion from your means I need to "Get a
life"
Twybrow - "fine, a few guards may get off on seeing these photos as part of their job, but no more than any other job." So you would then be
happy for the same people to touch your families genitals? Police cant do it! Also as for lifeguards in your example. What a poor argument for life
guards/pool attendents etc. They don't have built into their job the opportunity to touch anyone intimately. You also put many words in my
mouth..
"So how do you cope when you go to a swimming pool, or the beach? Are all lifeguards only in the job to catch a glimpse of your child/wife in
their bathing costume!? Of course not - and it is a unfair to assume they are!" Please feel free to quote where I assume all or any are!
"I can not beleive that you can jump to the conclusion that basically says all airport secrity guards are kiddy fiddling voyeurs, who get their
rocks off by staring at blurry very odd images, or by patting down every man woman and child that comes through the airport" Ooops.. there you go
again
"as you must be the most paranoid person, who is convinced that everyone around them is up to no good... what a sad reflection on the society you
think we live in!"
If you don't like the message kill the messenger hey.. It's amazing how in an intelligent debate some have to revert to this 
I don't suspect everyone around is up to no good. That's has nothing to do with not giving permission for me or my family to be intimately
touched.II would suggest that worrying if a terrorist is going to blow up your flight would be a far better description of paranoia given how unlikely
this is. You would spend your worry far better when out shopping as you are far more accessible to Mr Nasty terrorist if he wanted to get you.
Swanny - It's up to each person to draw their own conclusions to the why so feel free to spend some time researching but make it an informed
decision by really looking into it.
The airlines didn't CHOOSE to to keep us safe. They were strong armed by the US aviation/TSA/Homeland security to allow them to fly their U.S.
Routes. Any money spent ends up on your ticket price.. it's not a kind public service. As for MY airline- I have also not said there should be NO
security checks. As for who would book well the same people who travel on trains, the tube, ships and buses without any or minimal screening. Yet
another who counters someone else's view or opinion with tinfoil hat wearer and personal slurs..
Andrew - Why would you think I'm a snob or think I'm better than you because I object to the scanners or the intimate area grope test for me
or my child?
BlakeP82 - The TSA do not designate a particular sex to search the same sex! The airport would come to a standstill trying to allocate them.
So it seems anything to stay SAFE hey!
The next so called threat.. The internal bomb!! What will you allow now?
Strip search?
Rectal examination?
If your told it's needed to keep you safe..
2007-2008 Knife deaths in the UK 277, reported woundings 5500 (up to a third go unreported)
Check out the most likely way to be murdered in 2007-8. Getting blown up.. not likely! Sharp/blunt weapon or a gun? 54% as a male.
[img]http://[/img]
 
Description
Scource HERE!
So if you are really concerned for yours and your families safety and seem to think whatever it takes. Would you accept ...
Scanners and intimate searches as you enter..
City centres, shopping malls, all public building, pubs/clubs, theme parks and the list goes on. How about random scans and searches on the street
(yes there are mobile versions). How many times a day would be OK as you go about your businhess.. After all it would keep you far safer than focusing
on the very minimal chance of getting killed by a terrorist.
Terrorism has never affected my life or anyone at I have ever met.. How about you? I have however lost 3 friends over the years 2 to a knife and one
to a gun.
The only effect terrorism has on my life is being told I should be scared and accept anything for the government to look after me.
If your going to reply its welcome but maybe you could read what I actually say and not words you attribute to me on my behalf. If you want to sink to
personal slurs then maybe you should value free speech more 
It's just that for me personally.. I would never give up my rights to freedom and civil liberties because I'm told I need to be kept safe
from a pretty miniscule threat so I have no choice but to do as I am told to keep me safe.
I do have a life thanks haha.. and mine gives me the time to type this (No I'm not on the dole/benefits etc before anyone wants a go) hehe
Check under your beds folks so can sleep safe
[Edited on 18/11/10 by FFTS]
[Edited on 18/11/10 by FFTS]
Chris.
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scudderfish
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| posted on 18/11/10 at 12:00 PM | |
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Personally I feel that we as a species are terrible at differentiating between perceived risk and actual risk. 2001 approx 3000 people in the US died
of terrorism. In 2000, 31224 Americans died of septicemia. Where is the War On Infection? 11/9/2001 was a terrible day, but the fact that it was
televised live and all the aftermath made it much more potent in the minds of people. I was in the US a few years back when a sniper was taking pot
shots at random people filling their cars with petrol. On the news people were crouching behind their cars as they filled up. The sniper caused as
many deaths as 45 minutes of road accidents in the states, the very thing they were crouching behind was more likely to kill them.
This risk assessment failure means that people want to reassured that lightning is going to hit them, so they will subject themselves to indignities
that would get you arrested elsewhere. Unfortunately they only tend to worry about the last specific attack rather than the future different one.
Read this guy (http://www.schneier.com/) he makes a lot of sense.
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FFTS
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| posted on 18/11/10 at 01:54 PM | |
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For those who really care about keeping us safe you can now get paid for it by spying (sorry.. helping to watch) on your fellow citizens. Catching the
most baddies in a month and get paid for recruiting your friends as fellow spies (helpers sorry)
Look through history to see what happens when a section of the civilian population is recruited to watch the rest and report them!! Very dangerous
stuff.
For all those who want to help the government protect me. join HERE!!
It's well known as a bait and switch. Get you to watch the nasty shoplifters and then when your in move slowly to reporting suspicious behaviour,
certain profiles, ethnicities, parking violations. Hey maybe you can even get to watch the airport CCTV's in the future and you could watch the
check in cues and report in real time who you think could be a terrorist!! Oh no... what when someone see you on CCTV and decides you are acting
suspiciously?
Oh there I go being paranoid again
Beware the all seeing eye of your fellow citizen or welcome it if you wish
 
Description
From the web site of link above.. Internet eyes.
[Edited on 18/11/10 by FFTS]
Chris.
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scootz
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| posted on 18/11/10 at 04:09 PM | |
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You do realise that you're coming across just as rabidly and irrationally as the 'theres-a-terrorist-under-your-bed' brigade which
you seek to discredit!?
It's Evolution Baby!
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JoelP
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| posted on 18/11/10 at 06:34 PM | |
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i might have to book a holiday to NY soon... its been a long time since anyone squeezed my nuts.
It would be highly amusing though, turning up for a pat down with a hard on 
[Edited on 18/11/10 by JoelP]
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scudderfish
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| posted on 18/11/10 at 06:45 PM | |
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It looks like a physics prof has calculated that the chance of getting cancer from the new scanning machines is about the same as being on a plane
blown up by terrorists.
http://www.public.asu.edu/~atppr/bodyscan.html
Both of which are 4 times less likely than being killed by lightning.
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FFTS
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| posted on 18/11/10 at 09:45 PM | |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
You do realise that you're coming across just as rabidly and irrationally as the 'theres-a-terrorist-under-your-bed' brigade which
you seek to discredit!?
Rabid and irrational?
The scanners are a huge concern for both privacy and health. Number 1 search on google worlwide....Being raised in the US senate.. fact
The palm on genitals enhanced pat down is happening now in America to women, children included by male and female agents... fact
The web site "Internet eyes" is there to recruit members of the public to watch and inform on each other.. fact
Not quite sure where rabid and irrational comes from but hey.. I just think and research further than the "Truth" the BBC news tells
me.
It's such a shame that nobody addresses directly the many points I've made above. I have answered directly the points you have made.
It's easier to be oh so willing to just make a quip comment towards me.
It's so simple and yet nobody really answers still... my personal answer.
Would I go through a body scanner... NO
Would I have and have had a normal frisk... YES
Would I agree to a palms on genital search of me or my child.. NO
That's fine and if you WOULD just give your permission to a guy to touch your woman or children in the above way while you stand and watch then
just say so.. YES or NO. It may not concern you if you don't fly into the states but if you do there's a high chance you will HAVE to make
this decision baring in mind that saying YES to a scan doesn't mean you would NOT have to have the enhanced pat down. Not concerned in the UK?
Well if an airline wants to fly into the U.S. they have to comply with the security procedure laid down by the Americans so if this carries on in the
U.S. then its just a matter of time before many many more will HAVE to make the decision.
Unlike just opinion feel free to point out where my arguments are irrational or ilogical and I will back them up or justify them. But be prepared to
do the same.
I just love a good debate but your mostly not actually debating
Grrhhh.. Rabid Chris hehe.
Chris.
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scootz
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| posted on 18/11/10 at 09:55 PM | |
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Well lets start with your thread title... Nude Photo or Sexual Assault.
It's not a nude photo and unless there's intent, then it's not a sexual assault.
Pretty fundamental flaws to kick-off with???
It's Evolution Baby!
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FFTS
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| posted on 18/11/10 at 10:41 PM | |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Well lets start with your thread title... Nude Photo or Sexual Assault.
It's not a nude photo and unless there's intent, then it's not a sexual assault.
Pretty fundamental flaws to kick-off with???
As someone pointed out the title was provocative and designed to get a reaction. However..
NUDE = The scanner are tunable to 5 different levels. They do show a person without their clothes and have the ability in great detail = nude.
Contrary to the TSA first lies (se Janet Napolitano statement) They do not have the capability to save, store or transmit images and yet as later
admitted the tender spec requirements were for a) A hard drive b) a USB port and c) an ethernet connection. Now it was exposed they now say that its
only available in "Test" mode. A Florida court house currently has stored 30,000 images in its possession without the consent of the
people scanned. NUDE = image without clothes. PHOTO the capability to take, store, print and transmit an image. The next generation of scanner the
Iscon 1000D also takes and records a biometric face and body map, converts it to a unique barcode image and links it to your details presented on your
booking so in future scans simply walking into it will identify who you are and link to any personal data stored about you. (Careful before you rush
to shout tinfoil hat.. the company already sells them and has a promotional sales video) I guess this would be OK if it keeps you safe? How much will
you give away for a pretty non event threat.
Sexual assault. The touching of the genital and sexual areas without consent and with intent.
CONSENT is hardly freely as you wouldn't just offer. If you could fly without your kid or misses getting touched up you wouldn't offer to
some guy you knew nothing about to have a go. It's either agree or not be allowed to board your flight and maybe face an $11,000 fine. It would
certainly be coerced consent and not free. INTENT.. You only know the STATED intent of the TSA.. You do not know the intent of the individual agent
and why they picked the person they did to conduct an enhanced pat down on them. Many concerned passengers have now started to report that the amount
of good looking young females selected is way disproportionate in many airports.
So what is the INTENT of searching between a 6 yr old girls groin? In case she is wearing suicide knickers? C'mon.
If you believe it keeps you safe then a bomb up the bum and a mobile phone to trigger it has just made it all redundant.
Again.. out of all the serious point made in my posts you choose out of all to select two words of the title
[Edited on 18/11/10 by FFTS]
[Edited on 19/11/10 by FFTS]
Chris.
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scudderfish
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| posted on 23/11/10 at 04:08 PM | |
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FFTS
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| posted on 23/11/10 at 09:58 PM | |
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Well the poo is really hitting it in the good old US. Several county DA's in Florida have said they will put deputies at the airports and if
they witness ANY touching of genital areas they will arrest the TSA agent and charge them with a sexual assault. Inside the clothing is a Felony and
outside a misdemeanor . Several airports wishing to opt out of TSA and go private.
I just love the printer cartridge bomb plot. The U.S. inform the brits that a bomb was onboard a plane at East Midlands and where to find it The
Brits find it and make a news anouncement that it was NOT a bomb. Several hours later Obahma goes on TV and announces that we were wrong and it WAS a
bomb. We then go back on the news and say well it could have been.. then later Cameron himself announces that it WAS viable and not only that it was
"Timed" to go off over a U.S. city. Must be a pretty good timer hey Guess we must be so poo in our forces recognising a bomb that it
took Barry Soetoro (Obama) to tell us what a bomb looks like
This week surprise surprise... A new bomb was found on a German aircraft and a terror (scare/panic) alert went out. A few days later a small
retraction reports that the bomb was made by a U.S. company and was put on there to "TEST" security. Also a "Low level" threat
today at Logan airport.
This isn't that surprising when you learn that the so called No 2 to Bin Laden who the US called the handler for the Shoe bomber, Fort Hood
shooter and yes the Xmas day underwear bomber. However.. He did dine with the top military at the Pentagon months after 9/11 and had been interviewed
by the FBI 4 times as he knew 3 of the alleged 9/11 hijackers.
Wait for the next one to convince us that we need more controls and laws to keep us safe
Pentagon Guest Video
Chris.
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FFTS
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| posted on 23/11/10 at 10:15 PM | |
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Thanks for the above Scudderfish.
I guess this was one of Razmans "Professionals" who take their job so seriously Ah well after he'd finished he could have been
putting his contaminated hand on your kids bits hey.. and you'd have said "Please feel free. Do whatever you need to keep me safe"
(The you is a generic you for those to who'm it applies)
Opt out day tomorrow and Friday
[Edited on 23/11/10 by FFTS]
Chris.
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scootz
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| posted on 23/11/10 at 10:25 PM | |
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quote:
Originally posted by FFTS
Ah well after he'd finished he could have been putting his contaminated hand on your kids bits hey.. and you'd have said "Please
feel free. Do whatever you need to keep me safe" (The you is a generic you for those to who'm it applies)
FFS, give it a rest man!
It's Evolution Baby!
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FFTS
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| posted on 23/11/10 at 10:31 PM | |
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Hericy hey... Don't dare have a different opinion or belief and if you do don't dare voice it.... after all.
It may make some people think outside what is presented to them as the truth.
I have a suggestion Scootz!
If you don't l like my beliefs then you are free to NOT click on this thread
(but I bet you do )
[Edited on 24/11/10 by FFTS]
Chris.
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RK
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| posted on 24/11/10 at 12:33 AM | |
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There is absolutely nothing irrational about Americans taking full advantage of the populace's paranoia and making huge coin at the same time.
It's the American way.
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indykid
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| posted on 24/11/10 at 08:20 AM | |
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quote:
Originally posted by FFTS
Thanks for the above Scudderfish.
I guess this was one of Razmans "Professionals" who take their job so seriously Ah well after he'd finished he could have been
putting his contaminated hand on your kids bits hey.. and you'd have said "Please feel free. Do whatever you need to keep me safe"
(The you is a generic you for those to who'm it applies)
if you believe that, you'll believe anything. how credible are the rest of your sources by the way?
look at the author. can you find any reference to a hugh muzzbe in any other articles? hugh muzzbe avin a larf!
scudderfish has a very reasonable take on it, i must admit
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FFTS
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| posted on 24/11/10 at 11:00 AM | |
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Again so much above to comment on but instead it's easier to just look for one thing is less robust. There are some sources less robust than
others I admit but it doesn't make everything else invalid. If you want to know the answer to your own question then feel free to research as
much as you like. There's plenty of links supplied for you above but why be lazy.. if your interested and have an open mind then feel free to do
your own research
People dismiss things sooo easily because they feel it too incredible and that our leaders couldn't possibly do REALLY bad things to our own
people. Let's see your reaction to this...
The U.S. top military and CIA made plans to:
Set bombs in Miami to kill U.S citizens
Shoot U.S citizens on the mainland
Sink one of their own Navy ships in international waters.
Stage armed attacks on one of their own military bases.
Use a mock up of another countries fighter jet flown by a U.S. pilot who would then be witnessed to attack US civil shipping and also shoot down US
fighter aircraft (that would actually be drones)
And best of all to fly a civilian airliner full of CIA operatives with alias's of a college football team which would later land at a military
airbase after rondevuing in mid air with a replica that would replace it and be flown by remote control and further into its flight it would
broadcast an SOS to be heard on all emergency frequencies then remotely blowing it out of the sky via onboard explosives. A list of all those killed
would then be published in all the national and world news.
And before you say it's the U.S> we have our own very long list of examples throughout our past and recent history.
But I guess it will just be easier to just say I'm crazy
Chris.
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scudderfish
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| posted on 24/11/10 at 12:26 PM | |
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Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Credible citations please.
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FFTS
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| posted on 24/11/10 at 12:32 PM | |
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quote:
Originally posted by scudderfish
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Credible citations please.
I agree... However I'd like to wait for the condemnations and judgements of the above statement to demonstrate how we are conditioned to believe
what is fed to us in the mainstream.
I can substantiate it... Honest
It makes me laugh. People use the term "Conspiracy theory" as if its equal to nutjob. Do they think that there is never such a thing as a
conspiracy? You see something is only a conspiracy theory until there is one piece of proof and then it becomes a case of some level of actual
conspiracy. But of course, Governments, industry, banks, military and politicians would never conspire behind your back or against your interests hey
[Edited on 24/11/10 by FFTS]
Chris.
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The Shootist
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| posted on 24/11/10 at 03:19 PM | |
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Thoughly vetted professionals?
Atlanta, Georgia (CNN) -- Police in west Georgia found a wounded Transportation Security Administration officer at his home after a woman said the man
kidnapped and sexually assaulted her, then gave her a suicide note to deliver, authorities said Tuesday.
Randall Scott King, 49, of Hogansville, was listed in critical condition Tuesday afternoon at Columbus Medical Center.
The alleged victim told police that King abducted her from a Metropolitan Atlanta Rapid Transit Authority (MARTA) parking lot in Atlanta on the
evening of November 17 and took her to his residence in Hogansville, where the assault allegedly occurred, Hogansville police said in a statement.
A MARTA police report indicated the alleged kidnapping took place at the Lakewood station, a few miles north of Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta
International Airport. MARTA police were notified of the incident by police in Union City, an Atlanta suburb.
The woman was brought by someone to Union City Police on November 18, where she gave her account, Union City Detective Gloria Hodgson said. The woman
told officers that King had offered her a ride, then later assaulted her, Hodgson said.
MARTA is assisting in the investigation, spokesman Lyle Harris told CNN.
King, a behavior detection officer, has been with TSA for more than five years, said TSA spokesman Jon Allen.
"We are cooperating fully with law enforcement during this ongoing investigation," Allen said.
Hogansville police said they obtained criminal warrants for King.
"The victim stated that she was released by Mr. King who provided her with a suicide note and instructions on where to deliver it," the
statement said.
Acting on information from MARTA police, Hogansville officers "obtained a search warrant and entered Mr. King's residence. Upon entry into
Mr. King's residence Mr. King was found to have several wounds about his body," the statement said. It was not clear specifically what
type injuries King had or when he was found.
Hogansville is 50 miles southwest of Atlanta.
The department would not provide more specifics of the investigation. A call left at King's residence was not immediately returned.
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FFTS
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| posted on 24/11/10 at 07:30 PM | |
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She presented to police still bound in the leopard skin handcuffs he had bound her in to commit the assault.
This professional was a profiler. 5 yrs with the TSA and a behaviour detection specialist.... "Next woman or child to search please!"!
Not many wanting to know if the U.S> Military plans above could possibly be true.
Maybe better to not think about it hey
And More
Heathrow
Not nude
Keep me safe
Scanners MUST be safe! The
government told me they are
[Edited on 25/11/10 by FFTS]
Chris.
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FFTS
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| posted on 25/11/10 at 10:57 PM | |
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Hmmm it's gone quiet...
So much for debate
You'll love this! Anyone you know?
Youtube video
[Edited on 26/11/10 by FFTS]
Chris.
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baldeagle
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| posted on 30/11/10 at 05:04 PM | |
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Blah Blah Blah change the record, are you bored at home and cant think of anything that has something to do with cars.
Thanks Ady
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