I drove over to Paul G's (aka 907) place this morning. If anyone's been there, you'll know that it's all narrow twisty back roads - great fun in a 7, but challenging. I was in my Yaris, so was driving relatively sensibly.

On the way I had to swerve twice to avoid big 4x4s coming the other way on my side of the road.

On the way back I was following a Navara for about 10 miles - for at least 75% of those miles the offside wheels were on or over the white line, almost every corner was cut, and although going fast on the straight the car had to slow down for corners that I wouldn't even change down for in the Yaris. When I finally got past on the A12 I could see that the car was driven by a mum with a couple of kids in the back!

She simply didn't need such a huge car, and probably would have been 100% safer to her family and everyone else if she had been driving a decent saloon.

I saw 20 or so 4x4s this morning - only 1 looked like the owner actually needed one! He had a big trailer with a mini digger on it, so he can be forgiven.

Otherwise, I think they should be banned...

<rant mode off>

David
(I feel better for that... )

Well said that man, ban them unless a special driving test (for farmers & the like) is taken - particularly ban them from the South East where they are defo not required!

I kind of agree....Living on a farm we have a landrover - but we need it to tow trailers in and out of mud fields etc. It really annoys me when the government up road tax on 4x4's to get rid of them from City centres, but the ppl who use them in towns/cities can afford to pay whatever they want in road tax where as (in general) the people who NEED this 4x4's can't afford ultra tax! Plus more often than not they spend most of their time off-road (I know a remarkable theory and pretty hard to grasp for some!).....On the other hand I'd have been in hospital when some little prick in a corsa hit me when I was turning right had it not been for the 4x4 I was driving at the time.....Oli.

David, you know she will need the 4 wheel drive when we get the next 1/4" of snow

She'll probably end up in a ditch! (or force someone else into it...)

DJ

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particularly ban them from the South East where they are defo not required!

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....On the other hand I'd have been in hospital when some little prick in a corsa hit me when I was turning right had it not been for the 4x4 I was driving at the time.....Oli

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I should emphasise that I have no problem with 4x4s that are owned by people who need them - like the bloke who was towing a min-digger on a trailer this morning. I object to them when used as family transport "because they're safer", when clearly they're not.

Still - I'm in a good mood really, 'cos Paul 907 helped me out of a fix this morning, taking just an hour or so to do something that would have taken me a week or so, and probably would have resulted in much skin removal and many curses!

Experience does count a lot... and his ali nose cone is a work of art...


David

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Originally posted by oliwb
It really annoys me when the government up road tax on 4x4's to get rid of them from City centres, but the ppl who use them in towns/cities can afford to pay whatever they want in road tax

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Ya know, until recently I would agree with you guys on wanting a ban on SUV's. They're too big, use too much fuel and are unsafe. They are unneccessary and stupid. But then again, who are we to decide who can drive what?

A similar argument could be made for Locosts. They are unsafe due to a lack of crumple zones and airbags, and many of them use rediculous amounts of fuel for such a small and light car. On top of that, there's hardly any luggage space in it, so what possible practical use could it be?

Or for sports and supercars in general.. besides being gas-guzzling, they're also silly fast, which makes no sense at all, since you're not allowed to drive that fast anywhere anyways, so unless you also use it for trackdays, you have no business driving one of those.

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Originally posted by David Jenkins


Still - I'm in a good mood really, 'cos Paul 907 helped me out of a fix this morning, taking just an hour or so to do something that would have taken me a week or so, and probably would have resulted in much skin removal and many curses!


David

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I don't think just because a car doesn't have a crumple zone it is unsafe.
Given the choice, in a crash with another vehicle, I would prefer to have a big rude chassis and a full safety cage. That way I could use the external crumple zones supplied by the other vehicle.

edit: And I'm married to an air bag!

[Edited on 15/10/06 by Confused but excited.]

A nice reason response to the fact that some people cannot drive. If you look on one report that was on Pistonhead , A goverment department has said you are less likely to be killed in a 4x4 than in a small car. So they are safer (according to this report). Having spent the last week in London and Luton, I would buy one just to negotiate the mountainouse speed humps that are the norm around there, it is lunacy. and finally when you have banned one group of users, then we can start on motorbikes, lorries, tractors and when they get around to two seater sports cars there will no one left to object. History showed a man who operated this way, Hitler. We have choice it is no ones place to dictate to one group what they can have in terms of legally purchased and operated means of transport.

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Originally posted by 907
The two of us, precariously balanced on the treadle bar of my guillotine, trying to jump in unison.


We need pies.... more pies.


Paul G

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Originally posted by gazza285
Did you try turning it on?

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This was a venerable clockwork guillotine! Pre-steam era!

What concentrates the mind is the picture just over the machine, showing what happens if you forget to take your foot out from under the treadle when you stamp on it with your other foot!

BTW: Lighten up folks - my original post was a bit tongue-in-cheek and not meant to start an argument (yes it was - no it wasn't).

In the end, it's usually the nut holding the wheel that's the real problem in any kind of car...

Enough of this poo about who should drive what. I'm with 907, let's start a section about pies!

Not to keep going on but my personal OPINION is that I'd have been in hospital had it not been for me doing wlaking speed in a 4wd....yes Corsa's are slow but put an idiot behind the wheel and they can really do some damage (as can be seen from sed attached pic) You'll also not that the impact was right below me so had I been in a corsa aswell or worse the 7 I'd almost certainly had ended up in Hospital.
As to the tax thing obviously I didn't mean city folk are rich...but if you can afford to buy and run a brand new rangerover or disco 3 then the extra £50 odd on road tax aint gonna bother you....but for your average hill farmer its a heck of a lot! I appreciate its tongue in cheek and my reply was only a statement but I'm affraid I feel compelled to stick up for the humble 4x4 (I'm just sad like that as most of you will know!)....Anyhow freedom to drive what you want etc etc...and I agree many yummy mummy type drivers can be very annoying when let loose on a B-road.....Oli.
Rescued attachment PICT0135.JPG

and another.....
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Well said Spaximus. Get real lads, i had a 4x4 to tow my car to trackdays and throw all my gear in the back, and this was my only road car as i'd spent all my cah on my kitcar so does this mean i shouldn't be allowed to drive on the road unless i'm towing ???
I also live in wales, where public transport is a p?!@ing joke, unlike were all this started in southern england, just because you lot have a problem down there it doesn't mean the whole country should suffer.
My rant over

I'm considering a 4x4 as a tow car when I start sprint racing next year - honestly, it's because they're a good tow car, plenty space for the whole camping thing, and a few places I've been to have the potential for getting stuck in the mud (not because I like bouncing around and being bigger than everyone else on the road! )

Either that, or a Mazda Bongo

having driven my friends BMW x5 4.8 ltr i love it
she only has it because she cannot get 3 kids in her 5.0 ltr sl500

Oli, I had forgotten how much Duck Tape was on that old thing! Got any pics of the rear hatch?!

Iain

Man that car was awesome! 194K and absolutely couldn't fault it for anything other than some nasty body rust (but not even in the same league of rot potential as 80's european wagons etc....) Just wish some little knob hadn't driven into the side of it....ah well....guess what the replacement was?

a 3 yr old Ford Fiesta - bluh!

Oli. complete with a new TD5 landrover.....

If you guys think those little trucks are bad try having some knob driving a raised 7400lb F350 4x4 diesel around. They go pretty good for a large truck (14.0et in the 1/4 with a tune) and people drive them like maniacs because of that. Doesn't mean they can stop/steer though.

From whay t I remember of Canada, you have prety wide straight roads. Some of out country lanes are less than 2.0 metres from hedge to hedge.

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Originally posted by rusty nuts
David, you know she will need the 4 wheel drive when we get the next 1/4" of snow

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I nearly got knocked off the road by one in my village last winter - he/she had swerved across the road to avoid a 4" deep puddle!

David

BTW: I have no problem with 4x4 owners who need them and know how to drive them. It's the "Mum & kids" and/or "I've got a great big status symbol" brigades that scare me.

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Originally posted by Confused but excited.
Enough of this poo about who should drive what. I'm with 907, let's start a section about pies!

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I don't remember this country being over thrown and turned into a dictatorship !

I'll damn well drive what I like. It is still a free country isn't it ?

Yes, I do drive a Landrover (25 year old)
Yes, I do need it
Yes, I do drive slowly
Yes, I do pay extra road tax
Yes, I do drive up to London....just to wee off Ken Livinston.

I would have thought that Locost builders might be a little more tolerant. Or should we all drive around in disposible tin boxes ?

Rant over.

[Edited on 17/10/06 by ayoungman]

I think my rant was more about the drivers than the cars

some of the people round me could be lethal in a smart or even on a bycicle !

[Edited on 17/10/06 by mcerd1]

They can be quite good fun you know, I was stuck in traffic with my two workmates on a dual carriageway with a wide grass verge between us and the other side which was also stopped due to heavy traffic, The 4x4 owner in front of us was having non of this waiting around so decided to cross over and return from where he'd come, when he got stuck before reaching the other side he provided amusement for us all for quite some time while he tried all sorts to get out of that one.
I dont know how he went on as when we were long gone he was still spinning his wheels trying to get out
If anyone from bolton reads this it was between the roundabouts at chequerbent and the M61.

Standard old-fashioned landies tend not to be a problem - I suspect it's because they're rarely driven by Mums and yuppies... not up-market enough!

DJ

I quite like landrovers (I live on a farm at the moment, and used to work on them in holidays when I was at shcool/ uni)

I'd have a defender 90, with a 200 tdi (early 1990's), in blue or black
It would have to be good mechanicaly and structuraly - but (here is the important bit) it has to have a good collection of 'wounds' & 'scars' (dents & scrapes) and always be slightly (or very) dirty

we had one a bit like this (wrong engine and chassis was starting to rot) and its amazing how quick the yuppie types (in the polished machines) get back onto there side of the road when they saw it coming - there was something about it that said: 'I've hit bigger things than you before'
(in reality it had come from a big estate in the highlands and most of the woulds/ scars were cow, sheep and fence post inflicted)

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Originally posted by smart51
From whay t I remember of Canada, you have prety wide straight roads. Some of out country lanes are less than 2.0 metres from hedge to hedge.

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