Right chaps, I have a water meter, its already much cheaper than paying rates seeing as theres only me and her and my first measure was to take the bath out and replace with a nice big walk in shower.

I've just put a canopy up in the garden to extend the garage and since last Friday the 5x2.4m roof has filled my IBC up 550L I reckon the whole of my property has had 5,000l of rainwater dumped on it in the last week!

Next water reducing thought is the bog. Seeing as the water payment is a combined water in and sewage out, 50-50 you pays for the water then the same for getting shot. The toilet is clearly the biggest thing flushing good money after bad smelly stuff....

Question is, how do I get the rainwater out of the IBC in the garden into the cistern without resorting to a bucket! Any body describe a reliable system for transporting the water???

Any rainwater harvesting gurus on here, the source of all knowledge??

Ta,
Steve

You got a wife? , 2 x Buckets and a maid's yoke:


Description

time to get my running shoes on methinks!

But seriously, there are loads of flood pumping/drainage solutions on the 'net, maybe something on one of those sites?

JJB

[Edited on 23/6/11 by Daddylonglegs]

quick google search revealed a load of suggestions, is your IBC sat on the floor? Is it above the hight of the cistern?

A couple of bricks in the cistern reduces useage. Or a balloon filled with water.

We developed a system at my old house where we harvested water from the garage and house roof, store it in tanks in the garden and pump and filter it back up to the cold water tank in the loft to feed the loo and washing machine. Knocked nearly 2/3 off the water bill.
I wrote the control unit software to gauge usage and water levels to minimise pumping to save on power if it's not in regular use (say through the night). I could knock you up a diagram of the layout and control routine if you wanted. Whatever you do, make the pumping solution fail-safe, if you lose a "full" sensor/valve you'll have a flood of rainwater in no time.

Incidentally I often put the plug in while having a shower (dont ask!) and if I'm having a reasonable length shower on full power I can easily use as much water with that as I would have in a bath.



[Edited on 23/6/11 by coyoteboy]

Get a seperate "dirty" tank in the loft and use a solar powered pump to lift the water from the bottom into the dirty storage tank... Use a floating level sensor to switch off the pump once its full... Then run a pipe from there to your crapers... job done

Cheers, theres no tank in the loft... I converted the loft into bedrooms but theres a biggish space in the eves above the downstairs bathroom.

Problem would be how to get a tank in there!

The IBC in the garden is a lot lower than the house.

[Edited on 23/6/11 by coozer]

When I lived in Central America, in a bungalow on stilts, we had a 20,000 gallon tank in the cellar which was filled by rain water off the roof with the option of topping up from the mains. This was then pumped via an accululator to the house via a filter and water cleaner everything was served and with the accumulator gave fantastic showers.

Regards

Bob

Can't you buy those 'flexible' bag tanks now? Would be easy to get it into the space I would have thought.

quote:

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Originally posted by coyoteboy
We developed a system at my old house where we harvested water from the garage and house roof, store it in tanks in the garden and pump and filter it back up to the cold water tank in the loft to feed the loo and washing machine. Knocked nearly 2/3 off the water bill.
I wrote the control unit software to gauge usage and water levels to minimise pumping to save on power if it's not in regular use (say through the night). I could knock you up a diagram of the layout and control routine if you wanted. Whatever you do, make the pumping solution fail-safe, if you lose a "full" sensor/valve you'll have a flood of rainwater in no time.

Incidentally I often put the plug in while having a shower (dont ask!) and if I'm having a reasonable length shower on full power I can easily use as much water with that as I would have in a bath.



[Edited on 23/6/11 by coyoteboy]

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Luckily we don't have a water meter.

However we did install 2 x 11 gallon water butts back in 2006.

They've been great at providing water for the veg / garden and I can't think of a time we've had to use a hose / tap to water the garden in the past five years.

Because of the risk of providing the perfect breeding ground for Legionella pneumophila I would be very careful of using stored rain water in a shower unless it had been chlorinated or been subject to some other disinfection method such as UV treatment.

I would strongly advise anybody thinking of using harvested rain water for domestic use or using alternative energy for water heating to read up on the prevention of Legionella pneumophila in water systems and water system disinfection.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/legionnaires/

http://www.hse.gov.uk/legionnaires/whatis.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legionella_pneumophila


[Edited on 23/6/11 by britishtrident]

there are a shed load of regulations you have to comply with to stop harvested water, getting back into the domestic system

wind water pump

ATB

Simon

just move to Scotchland water is not something we are short of

quote:

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Originally posted by mangogrooveworkshop
just move to Scotchland water is not something we are short of

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Please listen to the trident bloke!!!
Legionella is not good!!
You say you have an IBC, these are 1000 litres of storage, BUT are translucent allowing plenty of light to get in. This encourages algae growth and other nasties. You really need underground storage and some kind of UV treatment for rainwater. This link gives you an idea of what the company I work for supplies and it ain't too cheap.

Hope this helps!!

Having just been researching this for my next project, without a header tank then you need an 'on demand pump' connected to the harvest tank, a float to detect if the tank is empty, a control unit and a valve that will change the supply back to mains water If the tank is empty.

Have a search on eBay as there is a seller who specialises in rwh systems. He does a kit of everything you will need
a lot cheaper than you can buy it elsewhere.

Edited to add search for seller ecotradecounter


You need to make sure that the incomming water goes through a filter and an inlet to prevent sludge disturbance in the tank. If possible fit a pre-pump filter As it will extend the life not only of the pump but also the toilet valves as well.
Don't forget to feed the garden hose and the washing machine as well.

Roger

[Edited on 23/6/11 by rgrs]

Not sure what an IBC is but why not just fit the pump onto the ballcock within the cistern?

just seen in CBS (car builder solutions) catalouge they can supply a little electric float switch this can be used with a relay, to turn a pump on/off so no tank needed, just plumb from rain water tank to pump up to cistern when full float switch turns off pump, if it fails then overflow on cistern will discharge water. no probs, you could use a solar panel and 12v battery to power a pump.
Andy

I worked in a hospital where the hot water supply to the showers had a bypass loops that was meaning a section of supposidly hot water pipe was infact being allowed to stay at body temperature. 1 person died and a few others were very very poorly. Unfortunately the pipe was going to a mixed respiratory medicine / oncology ward (never a good mix at the best of time- impaired immune systems and TB / lung abscesses / Cystic fibrosis patients with multi-resistant pseudomonas). Hohum. Not sure whether a UV zap would kill them or whether it would need heat to do it....

Another way of saving water would be to use the Focker's rule: "If it's yellow let it mellow, if it's brown flush it down"

Would the electricity for the pump not cost more than the water?

quote:

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Originally posted by v8kid
Would the electricity for the pump not cost more than the water?

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POST REMOVED FOR BLATANTLY ONLY SIGNING UP TO TRADE......

Fozzie.........Admin

[Edited on 28-6-11 by Fozzie]

All I want to do is use the rainwater to flush the bog. That means I'm not buying nice clean water and then paying the same for the sewage. Current price structure means if I use 2.5cubic metres of fresh water the sewage charge is for 2.5cubic metres of sewage. I'm already impressed with the change over from rates to meter, the monthly cost has reduced £14 already!

So, if I use rainwater out the 1000l IBC I save some more costs, and the planet a little bit, although I'm not fussed about that tbh. The IBC has collected 650L since last friday, I'm shortly going to have to empty it down the drain, and that would be a waste!

IBC is 3m away from the bathroom in the garden and about 500m lower than the bathroom floor. All I need is a system to get the water out the IBC into the cistern. Needs to be largely fit and forget with the mains supply easily switched back on. Plumbing it up is no problem its the delivery source I need.

Thanks everyone,
Steve

500m lower? thats a lot.
seeing as its not that far, i'd go with some sort of solar/wind/both powered pump business. even if it pumps to the space i think you said there is above the bog if you can put a small tank in there, say enough for 10 flushes, into a holding tank, then fills with gravity as and when needed. fills the tank by day, flushes by night. maybe a mains backup for those winter days
or, a true fit and forget way, build the tank a small brick out building, so it can be slightly above the toilet to fill by gravity, but that'll probably cost more to build than it saves

LOL 500mm....

Couldn't you just put a service valve in the existing water fill pipe - allows easy return to mains if needed.

then on the opposite side of the cistern fit another ball cock thingy to allow filling that drives a water pump. When the water level drops you'd either have one, the other or both filling the cistern.

quote:

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Originally posted by MikeR
Couldn't you just put a service valve in the existing water fill pipe - allows easy return to mains if needed.

then on the opposite side of the cistern fit another ball cock thingy to allow filling that drives a water pump. When the water level drops you'd either have one, the other or both filling the cistern.

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Just wait until your neighbour is on holiday and run an underground pipe to their outside tap! Sorted!

quote:

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Originally posted by Rebecca of Stormsaver
Hi Steve,

Taking out the bath and putting in a shower is a great start. If you are really serious about reducing your water bill significantly you should invest in a good quality rainwater harvesting system for toilet flushing, washing machines and gardens. Our Monsoon system would be ideal as it also has 50% less energy use than others on the market too! Have a look at www.stormsaver.com where you can obtain an instant quote http://www.stormsaver.com/Quick-Quote[/url].

However if you don’t want to go this far there are other cheaper ways to reduce your water bill… but they wont reap the same rewards as a rainwater system. Also you must do it properly as there are lots of rules about cross contamination of rain and mains water. However if you have a good system you won’t need UV and it should need little maintenance.

Good Luck with whatever you decide.

Rebecca

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Right, heres the plan....

1000l IBC in the garden collects rainwater off me 5x2.4m canopy. I put a small, say 100l tank in the void above the bog. I use a pump to feed the tank via a ball cock. I use a 10w solar panel to trickle charge a 12v battery to feed the pump.

THIS pump says it starts as soon as water is being used. Will the ball cock opening be enough of a disturbance to make it pump?

Anybody??

Over the last 6 months you could have been carrying it up in buckets.

quote:

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Originally posted by Marcus
Please listen to the trident bloke!!!
Legionella is not good!!
You say you have an IBC, these are 1000 litres of storage, BUT are translucent allowing plenty of light to get in. This encourages algae growth and other nasties. You really need underground storage and some kind of UV treatment for rainwater. This link gives you an idea of what the company I work for supplies and it ain't too cheap.

Hope this helps!!

---

You need a negative head pump to make it work I'm installing a 6000l one on a job and that rums with a negative head pump . The ball cock is designed to work under pressure so opening it as the level drops will have no effect on a standard flow switch operated pump.

FWIW

My neighbour has a wind driven electric generator, a solar array (at the side of his tennis court) and a rainwater harvesting system. None of these are 'stand alone.' they all augment normal utilities.
Water here is around 1 euro a cube. His auto-watering system for his garden developed a leak (undetected until he got his metred water bill). 6,000 euros. Ouch !
Turned out to be an underground burst pipe just leaching water away into the soil. (around 100 swimming pools worth).

I would personally just raise the storage tank up a foot above the cistern.

As an aside, can you not just bypass your water meter? I dont think its a crime like bypassing other meters. You could easily hide the modified pipework somewhere, mine is hidden behind a kitchen unit with just a hole cut out to see the meter.