Here's is the choice that is happening in the good old US of A and other countries around the world.

You want to fly and you are given the following choice.

A) Subject yourself to a dose of unsafe radiation (John Hopkins university report) and having a detailed photo of your naked body stored with the authorities.

B) Subject yourself to a physical search including touching your genitals firmly with the palm of a strangers hands outside or INSIDE your clothing.

Now consider this question when it applies to your Wife/Partner, but now its a male touching her between the legs and squeezing her breasts?. How about having to lift her skirt in public? How would your decision alter?

Now consider the same for your 6 yr old child

What about your disabled child, 80 yr old mother in her wheelchair?

Would you still fly?

It is a sexual assault if touched in this way by a police officer on a routine search. So how would you feel if the person touching up your family is just a civilian?

Now remember... It's not just the USA its just worst there and they are imposing rules on airlines that wish to fly into the U.S. Last week there was a nude demonstration in a German airport. Things have got that bad in the U.S. that this subject this week was the most searched subject on the whole of the planet in Google trends most searched rankings. There is also a mass movement for an opt out day on the 24th November where anyone flying is urged to opt out of the scanners as they can't physically Pat down" everyone who is flying.. SEE HERE and HERE

here's just a couple of interesting facts.

Michael Chertoff the head of the TSA (Transportation Security Administration) who purchased the scanners was the CEO of one of the two companies who supply them and a paid consultant to the other

These scanners and pat downs have NEVER caught anyone with explosives before boarding a plane!

The Christmas day bomber who had had explosives in his underwear did not have a passport and was escorted onto the flight by a man who then left the plane.

Where would you draw the line with your civil liberties and freedom in exchange for your government to keep you safe from this nasty Terrorism?

Whatever my view you are welcome to yours but for those open minded enough maybe start checking out the facts before the knee jerk reaction.

Well it is winter so we need something to have a good debate about on here hey hahaha.

Power to the Sheeple!!!!

I agree, these scanners are a total invasion of civil liberties and I don't agree with their use at all. I very much doubt it will stop determined terrorists, but it will prove humiliating and potentially harmful in the longer term for innocent passengers.

Benjamin Franklin's famous quote couldn't be more apt: "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety".

It's neither a nude photo, nor sexual assault.

The vast majority of scanners in use only show vague outlines, TBH if you're gonna get a stiffy over that you need locking up for safety's sake anyway.
As for sexual assault, I've never heard of anyone "agreeing" to be searched, being called sexual assault.

No-one "needs" to fly...

LOL! Exaggerated load of bollards, much?

Whenever you see the word 'sheeple', you know you're reading utter tripe written by some paranoid, government-hating, conspiracy theorist, woo-woo nutjob living 'off the grid' in a trailer wearing a tinfoil hat.

quote:

---

Originally posted by UncleFista
It's neither a nude photo, nor sexual assault.

The vast majority of scanners in use only show vague outlines, TBH if you're gonna get a stiffy over that you need locking up for safety's sake anyway.
As for sexual assault, I've never heard of anyone "agreeing" to be searched, being called sexual assault.

No-one "needs" to fly...

---

ok i like your thinking but there is more than one view on this.

Imagine another underwear bomber episode on a flight with your wife and child or family.

but in this case they found the explosives because of a seach of peoples Genital area and some uncomfortable touching.

They stop him and save lives.

would you be happy with being searched prior to the flight in that improper way?

You are agreeing to the terms by using that form of transport and entering that country.

i work in Computer Data security and im searched a lot and sometimes in a uncomfortable way. but its part of my job and it keeps me safe in the long run.

This is why i understand that they do what they see fit to keep us safe on the flights on entering Government Buildings ETC.


Dave

I can't think of a single reason why I'd want to got to the 'States in the first place, so this doesn't affect me really, not even for business reasons.

When I go on holiday I usually stay in the UK (what other country has accessible history and culture the same as ours?), but if I do want to go abroad in Europe then I load up the bike and take that. Or the car if taking more than two of us. Ferries are absolutely pain-free compared to planes - there's no personal searches for everyone, no expensive short-cuts through boarding, no sitting in seats 6 inches too narrow, no breathing recycled air, no. . . . well, you get the idea.

Nope, you can keep your long-haul flights to the most paranoid and opressive nation on earth, I'd rather enjoy my limited time away from home and work.

FFTS, They'll never let you fly mate... 'cos they'll never find anybody willing to "touch you up". Have you ever thought of a job writing for the Daily Mail? With a stylelike that you'd fit right in.

Amate of mine works on security at Manchester airport. He's tested the body scanners and says it's a very blurry pictury. They got a few cabin crew to volenteer for the tests. He recons searches and scans in themselves are near pointless. He does say the psyhcological profiling done by guys watching the CCTV while you go through it works. It flagged up both the shoe bomber and the underpant bomber but they couldn't find any other reason to search them without a court order. The airlines insisted they be let fly as the delay was holding up the planes!

YEP!! ANYTHING to keep you safe hey

What if a nasty terrorist decides to detonate while he's next to me and hundreds of others in the queue before the pat down/Scan?.. Ohhh.. didn't think of that!

Ahhh.. I wonder why soft targets and cruise ships with thousands of passengers on aren't the target? Wouldn't that be much easier and get more headlines?

When was the last time terrorism affected YOUR life?

They have NEVER caught anyone trying to board a plane with explosives or prevented anything at the boarding point. The so called underwear bomber had no passport and was escorted onto the plane by a smart dressed man who left. [HERE

Be scared folks be VERY VERY scared.. there's a terrorist under your bed... hehe.


[Edited on 17/11/10 by FFTS]

quote:

---

Originally posted by FFTS

Be scared folks be VERY VERY scared.. theres a terrorist under your bed... hehe.

---

[Devil's advocate mode] I think the term 'sexual assault' is a bit strong and quite frankly it is just exaggerating the situation in the same way the media often does. Wouldn't you prefer to be on the cautious side if you were under any sort of threat?

You are inferring that security staff are not behaving in a professional manner while carrying out their duties. Speaking from experience I can say that all staff are carefully vetted and trained before they are allowed anywhere near a passenger. I had to have an extensive search into my past when I did some security work for a major airport, and believe me when I say they are very thorough. After you have been trained to 'pat down' passengers it becomes purely part of the job you are paid to do and I have never encountered anyone who actually enjoys the experience, except maybe for a few passengers!

You would trust an NHS doctor to examine your daughter don't you? Why not another trained professional?

[Edited on 17-11-10 by RazMan]

It's a typical exaggerated load of old blx.

When I read a post which starts with a false binary argument I either think "teenager" or "tin foil hat wearer".
The title is designed to inflame and bypass the logic centres of the brain.
Fortunately most people on locostbuilders are better than that.

By the reasoning of the title, the last time me and the missus slept together it was rape

My 83 yr old grandma and 60 yr old mum both fly regularly and neither could give a flying toss whether they're scanned or searched, it's the price you have to pay nowadays to fly.

As for "What if a nasty terrorist decides to detonate while he's next to me and hundreds of others in the queue before the pat down/Scan?.. Ohhh.. didn't think of that!"
I'd imagine security professionals have thought of exactly that, they're profesionals who think of things like that for a living.
Better a few 10's of people are injured rather than a few hundred exploding in mid-air and raining down on a city/town somewhere...

[Edited on 17/11/10 by UncleFista]

You would trust an NHS doctor to examine your daughter don't you? Why not another trained professional? Check out the people the TSA employ. Check out the TSA drugs party that they investigated. Check out the LA TSA agent arrested for going around the airport shouting "I'm god and I have the power" Maybe you would be happy to let him touch up your daughter as he was vetted after all. As for sexual assault being wrong.. Well it is illegal for anyone to touch the genital area without consent it's sexual assault, so because you agree on behalf of your children then its NOT anymore?

You would put a security guard on the same level as a doctor? WoW!!

These so called Enhanced pat downs are now starting to feel the actual the genitals.

Not many actually answering which choice YOU would allow for you and your family.

Would you scan them? Watch them get touched in the genital and breasts? or refuse both?
By the way.. there is still a certain amount selected for a enhanced pat down even AFTER a scan.

Given the choices what would you opt for?

[Edited on 17/11/10 by FFTS]

[Edited on 17/11/10 by FFTS]

quote:

---

Originally posted by FFTS
You would trust an NHS doctor to examine your daughter don't you? Why not another trained professional? [Edited on 17/11/10 by FFTS]

---

I accept you have a problem with this. To be more convincing to me you would have to suggest the real reason security is doing this. I don't find the suggestion that the security industry just got super pervy and horny very convincing nor the idea that it's some security CEO in America lining his pockets.

I do find the idea that they are trying to make flying safer more convincing. Yes it's a pain when you fly. I object strongly to the personal intrusion, invasion of privacy and embuggerance factor but accept that if I want to fly safely I want all my fellow passengers searched just the same.

The argument that they don't find bombs might just signify the preventive effect of these procedures. The failures, ie the underpants bomber, show that circumvention of these procedures is what puts us at risk.

Accept current security if you want to fly.

Well I think that's got things going nicely so I shall leave you too hopefully keep posting your valuable opinions and hopefully some have at least bothered to research a subject rather than comment on no knowledge of it. If you think it's NOT happening then go search to back up your belief?

As for the original question I shall leave it worded like this and see what you would choose. The TSA's procedure is to request a full body scan from your child. You disagree as you have whatever concerns for health or privacy. They then have to explain to you "I will have to conduct an Enhanced pat down and this will require me to touch the childs genital areas with the palm of my hand. Do you give your consent to this sir?"

Think about it.. What would you reply.. YES or not be allowed to fly and face a $11000 fine?

If you don't believe it then just get searching or click the links in previous posts.

Have fun everyone

[Edited on 17/11/10 by FFTS]

I'm obviously not putting security staff and doctors on the same level - just stating that they are both professionals who take their jobs very seriously indeed. Think of other people who could abuse their professional position when it comes to your family's intimacy - your dentist? your clothes shop attendant? how many people do you want to imagine is a pervert?

If a threat exists, or is even just feared to exist, I am happy to make these adjustments to my travel arrangements and that goes for my wife, mother in law or my sons and grandchildren, after all it is only a small intrusion of our privacy but a huge contribution to our safety.

I suppose it just depends on which side of the fence you are standing.

Just had to do this one!

If you believe in this all surrounding terrorism then consider this.

The whole point of terrorism is to terrorise a civilian population. The majority of us don't fly and those who do is VERY infrequently. Look at Islamabad and the amount of suicide bombings there on a daily basis. Look at the targets. Markets, shopping centres, public transport ie buses and trains, government offices. All the things we use or go near daily that would REALLY terrorise us and change the way we live.. all soft targets!. Notice how the IRA wanted to terrorised the population and it was the same targets NO attempts on aircraft even when all this enhanced security wasn't around and it would have been easy.

In my honest opinion the public at large are the victims of terrorism but not by the men in the caves

I'm done so have fun

As for those who don't like my own views and fall back on a personal slur of me then I shall retire to my trailer and put on my tinfoil hat!


or maybe I should just go baaa baa Hahahaha

If my kid getting security searched at an airport is the worst they have to face in this world then I'll take it. Complete cr*p arguement. I don't think all security guards are kiddy fiddlers as you're trying to imply.

If you really believe that ALL security staff are turned on by touching up a woman, man or child I think you need to look at your stats again. Besides I am pretty confident to say that most people you would have to check as a security guard would be munters that you would rather not touch.

Get a life and stay in the UK or use ferrys, trains etc if not.

Where's the 'face-palm' smiley when you need one!?

I cant see the issue of the scanners to be honest... The images are blurry at best, you can not really identify facial features... fine, a few guards may get off on seeing these photos as part of their job, but no more than any other job...

So how do you cope when you go to a swimming pool, or the beach? Are all lifeguards only in the job to catch a glimpse of your child/wife in their bathing costume!? Of course not - and it is a unfair to assume they are!

I can not beleive that you can jump to the conclusion that basically says all airport secrity guards are kiddy fiddling voyeurs, who get their rocks off by staring at blurry very odd images, or by patting down every man woman and child that comes through the airport... Get a grip man!

If this is genuinely your attitude, it is no surprise to me that you are concerned, as you must be the most paranoid person, who is convinced that everyone around them is up to no good... what a sad reflection on the society you think we live in!

If you want proper airport security without hassle go to the experts: The Israelis

so what do you think the point of this all is? is there some overarching conspiracy theory? what is it trying to achieve.

it may well be that security measures at airports go over and above what is necessary, but many would agree that such a process is reassuring. As passengers or customers we feel that lots of work is going on to protect us. and this is important.

i think the conspiracy argument to all this misses that most peoples fundamental drivers are selfish, so for an airport or an airline they know that they need to spend £x in order for us to feel safe enough to continue to fly. which is how they survive.

heres an idea. you open up a low-cost & low security airline. market it to the general public on the basis of 'look chances are no one will blow our planes up and we'll all get to preserve our freedom man' people may enjoy getting through the airport faster but i guarantee you wont be inundated with bookings. again peoples fundamental drivers are selfish and will want to look after number one. the only people booking your flights will be the tin foil hat wearers and those with post apocalypse survival cabins in the woods, who prize freedom over everything else. also people will figure that if anyone is going to blow up a plane, it will be one of yours. so would you rather your children be blown up to preserve some flawed concept of freedom or would you rather make a sacrifice to keep them as safe as you psosibly could.

freedom is one thing. and illusion.

we all have constraints placed upon us, we are partial and favour the safety of our nearest and dearest above all others. i wouldnt knowingly endanger the life of my children to some rather airy goal of freedom that i probably cant even understand terribly well.

Mmmm mixed feelings on this one, I'd like to think all this added to my safety on board an aircraft, but, why are people allowed to, or need to take so much hand luggage on board, Mrs. and Me take passports and tickets, and her handbag big enough for a manicure set pack of fags and a purse! Yes just 4 weeks ago she got on the plane at Manchester with a nailfile, scissors, nail clippers etc. in that set! completely by accident as we were late due to traffic, so what can people get away with in rucksacks etc, obviously families with toddlers and babies need more.

My real fear is that security is now regarded as a process, which is gradually being automated, and unless something bleeps, flashes red, makes a wailling noise no one is alerted, our hand luggage goes through scanners, but unless someone is scrutinising the screen anything can get through. These security guards should be well trained to spot potential threats and act on them, and not fear cries of discrimination, greeting people and assessing the response, watching body language are all skills they should have, but, instead everyone is subject to scanning, and then a random victim singled out for a grope - sorry search, by some poorly trained uniformed individual earning not much above the minimum wage, which is another indicator of how seriously security is taken!!

but your wife/gf won't be touched by a man, it would have to be done by a woman. thats been the rules for any sort of pat down for years. and it would be a man that has to touch you, which would be kinda ghey

simple i will fly with the ones who get properly searched i dont mind,,, you can go with the snobs im better than you attitude risk getting blown out of the sky ,,,

I love it.. social conditioning is alive and well

Lots of opinions but none really addressing my points above. But they are being addressed here HERE! No comments on why there aren't daily market/shopping centre/clubs/town halls/trains & soft targets which are far more effective at achieving their aim to terrorise. Why not a huge cruise ship. (much easier than an airplane)

Any price to stay safe hey.

By the way.. I didn't see any clear answers to the question "Would you stand by and watch your child genital area touched in the name od a search?

Many presumptions above! Too answer some.

UncleFiesta - "Better a few 10's of people are injured rather than a few hundred exploding in mid-air and raining down on a city/town somewhere... "I think you may underestimate the affects of a 50lb vest amongst a check in hall of thousands of people in an enclosed space.. 10's? of people INJURED?

Tiger Super six & Twybrow- Where have I either implied or stated that ALL staff may be? Different opinion from your means I need to "Get a life"

Twybrow - "fine, a few guards may get off on seeing these photos as part of their job, but no more than any other job." So you would then be happy for the same people to touch your families genitals? Police cant do it! Also as for lifeguards in your example. What a poor argument for life guards/pool attendents etc. They don't have built into their job the opportunity to touch anyone intimately. You also put many words in my mouth..
"So how do you cope when you go to a swimming pool, or the beach? Are all lifeguards only in the job to catch a glimpse of your child/wife in their bathing costume!? Of course not - and it is a unfair to assume they are!" Please feel free to quote where I assume all or any are!

"I can not beleive that you can jump to the conclusion that basically says all airport secrity guards are kiddy fiddling voyeurs, who get their rocks off by staring at blurry very odd images, or by patting down every man woman and child that comes through the airport" Ooops.. there you go again

"as you must be the most paranoid person, who is convinced that everyone around them is up to no good... what a sad reflection on the society you think we live in!"

If you don't like the message kill the messenger hey.. It's amazing how in an intelligent debate some have to revert to this

I don't suspect everyone around is up to no good. That's has nothing to do with not giving permission for me or my family to be intimately touched.II would suggest that worrying if a terrorist is going to blow up your flight would be a far better description of paranoia given how unlikely this is. You would spend your worry far better when out shopping as you are far more accessible to Mr Nasty terrorist if he wanted to get you.

Swanny - It's up to each person to draw their own conclusions to the why so feel free to spend some time researching but make it an informed decision by really looking into it.
The airlines didn't CHOOSE to to keep us safe. They were strong armed by the US aviation/TSA/Homeland security to allow them to fly their U.S. Routes. Any money spent ends up on your ticket price.. it's not a kind public service. As for MY airline- I have also not said there should be NO security checks. As for who would book well the same people who travel on trains, the tube, ships and buses without any or minimal screening. Yet another who counters someone else's view or opinion with tinfoil hat wearer and personal slurs..

Andrew - Why would you think I'm a snob or think I'm better than you because I object to the scanners or the intimate area grope test for me or my child?

BlakeP82 - The TSA do not designate a particular sex to search the same sex! The airport would come to a standstill trying to allocate them.

So it seems anything to stay SAFE hey!

The next so called threat.. The internal bomb!! What will you allow now?
Strip search?
Rectal examination?
If your told it's needed to keep you safe..

2007-2008 Knife deaths in the UK 277, reported woundings 5500 (up to a third go unreported)
Check out the most likely way to be murdered in 2007-8. Getting blown up.. not likely! Sharp/blunt weapon or a gun? 54% as a male.
[img]http://[/img]

Description

Scource HERE!

So if you are really concerned for yours and your families safety and seem to think whatever it takes. Would you accept ...

Scanners and intimate searches as you enter..
City centres, shopping malls, all public building, pubs/clubs, theme parks and the list goes on. How about random scans and searches on the street (yes there are mobile versions). How many times a day would be OK as you go about your businhess.. After all it would keep you far safer than focusing on the very minimal chance of getting killed by a terrorist.

Terrorism has never affected my life or anyone at I have ever met.. How about you? I have however lost 3 friends over the years 2 to a knife and one to a gun.

The only effect terrorism has on my life is being told I should be scared and accept anything for the government to look after me.

If your going to reply its welcome but maybe you could read what I actually say and not words you attribute to me on my behalf. If you want to sink to personal slurs then maybe you should value free speech more

It's just that for me personally.. I would never give up my rights to freedom and civil liberties because I'm told I need to be kept safe from a pretty miniscule threat so I have no choice but to do as I am told to keep me safe.

I do have a life thanks haha.. and mine gives me the time to type this (No I'm not on the dole/benefits etc before anyone wants a go) hehe

Check under your beds folks so can sleep safe

[Edited on 18/11/10 by FFTS]

[Edited on 18/11/10 by FFTS]

Personally I feel that we as a species are terrible at differentiating between perceived risk and actual risk. 2001 approx 3000 people in the US died of terrorism. In 2000, 31224 Americans died of septicemia. Where is the War On Infection? 11/9/2001 was a terrible day, but the fact that it was televised live and all the aftermath made it much more potent in the minds of people. I was in the US a few years back when a sniper was taking pot shots at random people filling their cars with petrol. On the news people were crouching behind their cars as they filled up. The sniper caused as many deaths as 45 minutes of road accidents in the states, the very thing they were crouching behind was more likely to kill them.
This risk assessment failure means that people want to reassured that lightning is going to hit them, so they will subject themselves to indignities that would get you arrested elsewhere. Unfortunately they only tend to worry about the last specific attack rather than the future different one.
Read this guy (http://www.schneier.com/) he makes a lot of sense.

For those who really care about keeping us safe you can now get paid for it by spying (sorry.. helping to watch) on your fellow citizens. Catching the most baddies in a month and get paid for recruiting your friends as fellow spies (helpers sorry)

Look through history to see what happens when a section of the civilian population is recruited to watch the rest and report them!! Very dangerous stuff.

For all those who want to help the government protect me. join HERE!!

It's well known as a bait and switch. Get you to watch the nasty shoplifters and then when your in move slowly to reporting suspicious behaviour, certain profiles, ethnicities, parking violations. Hey maybe you can even get to watch the airport CCTV's in the future and you could watch the check in cues and report in real time who you think could be a terrorist!! Oh no... what when someone see you on CCTV and decides you are acting suspiciously?


Oh there I go being paranoid again

Beware the all seeing eye of your fellow citizen or welcome it if you wish


Description
From the web site of link above.. Internet eyes.

[Edited on 18/11/10 by FFTS]

You do realise that you're coming across just as rabidly and irrationally as the 'theres-a-terrorist-under-your-bed' brigade which you seek to discredit!?

i might have to book a holiday to NY soon... its been a long time since anyone squeezed my nuts.

It would be highly amusing though, turning up for a pat down with a hard on

[Edited on 18/11/10 by JoelP]

It looks like a physics prof has calculated that the chance of getting cancer from the new scanning machines is about the same as being on a plane blown up by terrorists.

http://www.public.asu.edu/~atppr/bodyscan.html

Both of which are 4 times less likely than being killed by lightning.

quote:

---

Originally posted by scootz
You do realise that you're coming across just as rabidly and irrationally as the 'theres-a-terrorist-under-your-bed' brigade which you seek to discredit!?

---

Well lets start with your thread title... Nude Photo or Sexual Assault.

It's not a nude photo and unless there's intent, then it's not a sexual assault.

Pretty fundamental flaws to kick-off with???

quote:

---

Originally posted by scootz
Well lets start with your thread title... Nude Photo or Sexual Assault.

It's not a nude photo and unless there's intent, then it's not a sexual assault.

Pretty fundamental flaws to kick-off with???

---

Well the poo is really hitting it in the good old US. Several county DA's in Florida have said they will put deputies at the airports and if they witness ANY touching of genital areas they will arrest the TSA agent and charge them with a sexual assault. Inside the clothing is a Felony and outside a misdemeanor . Several airports wishing to opt out of TSA and go private.

I just love the printer cartridge bomb plot. The U.S. inform the brits that a bomb was onboard a plane at East Midlands and where to find it The Brits find it and make a news anouncement that it was NOT a bomb. Several hours later Obahma goes on TV and announces that we were wrong and it WAS a bomb. We then go back on the news and say well it could have been.. then later Cameron himself announces that it WAS viable and not only that it was "Timed" to go off over a U.S. city. Must be a pretty good timer hey Guess we must be so poo in our forces recognising a bomb that it took Barry Soetoro (Obama) to tell us what a bomb looks like
This week surprise surprise... A new bomb was found on a German aircraft and a terror (scare/panic) alert went out. A few days later a small retraction reports that the bomb was made by a U.S. company and was put on there to "TEST" security. Also a "Low level" threat today at Logan airport.

This isn't that surprising when you learn that the so called No 2 to Bin Laden who the US called the handler for the Shoe bomber, Fort Hood shooter and yes the Xmas day underwear bomber. However.. He did dine with the top military at the Pentagon months after 9/11 and had been interviewed by the FBI 4 times as he knew 3 of the alleged 9/11 hijackers.

Wait for the next one to convince us that we need more controls and laws to keep us safe

Pentagon Guest Video

Thanks for the above Scudderfish.

I guess this was one of Razmans "Professionals" who take their job so seriously Ah well after he'd finished he could have been putting his contaminated hand on your kids bits hey.. and you'd have said "Please feel free. Do whatever you need to keep me safe" (The you is a generic you for those to who'm it applies)

Opt out day tomorrow and Friday

[Edited on 23/11/10 by FFTS]

quote:

---

Originally posted by FFTS
Ah well after he'd finished he could have been putting his contaminated hand on your kids bits hey.. and you'd have said "Please feel free. Do whatever you need to keep me safe" (The you is a generic you for those to who'm it applies)

---

Hericy hey... Don't dare have a different opinion or belief and if you do don't dare voice it.... after all.

It may make some people think outside what is presented to them as the truth.

I have a suggestion Scootz!

If you don't l like my beliefs then you are free to NOT click on this thread

(but I bet you do )

[Edited on 24/11/10 by FFTS]

There is absolutely nothing irrational about Americans taking full advantage of the populace's paranoia and making huge coin at the same time. It's the American way.

quote:

---

Originally posted by FFTS
Thanks for the above Scudderfish.

I guess this was one of Razmans "Professionals" who take their job so seriously Ah well after he'd finished he could have been putting his contaminated hand on your kids bits hey.. and you'd have said "Please feel free. Do whatever you need to keep me safe" (The you is a generic you for those to who'm it applies)

---

Again so much above to comment on but instead it's easier to just look for one thing is less robust. There are some sources less robust than others I admit but it doesn't make everything else invalid. If you want to know the answer to your own question then feel free to research as much as you like. There's plenty of links supplied for you above but why be lazy.. if your interested and have an open mind then feel free to do your own research

People dismiss things sooo easily because they feel it too incredible and that our leaders couldn't possibly do REALLY bad things to our own people. Let's see your reaction to this...

The U.S. top military and CIA made plans to:

Set bombs in Miami to kill U.S citizens
Shoot U.S citizens on the mainland
Sink one of their own Navy ships in international waters.
Stage armed attacks on one of their own military bases.
Use a mock up of another countries fighter jet flown by a U.S. pilot who would then be witnessed to attack US civil shipping and also shoot down US fighter aircraft (that would actually be drones)
And best of all to fly a civilian airliner full of CIA operatives with alias's of a college football team which would later land at a military airbase after rondevuing in mid air with a replica that would replace it and be flown by remote control and further into its flight it would broadcast an SOS to be heard on all emergency frequencies then remotely blowing it out of the sky via onboard explosives. A list of all those killed would then be published in all the national and world news.

And before you say it's the U.S> we have our own very long list of examples throughout our past and recent history.

But I guess it will just be easier to just say I'm crazy

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Credible citations please.

quote:

---

Originally posted by scudderfish
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Credible citations please.

---

Atlanta, Georgia (CNN) -- Police in west Georgia found a wounded Transportation Security Administration officer at his home after a woman said the man kidnapped and sexually assaulted her, then gave her a suicide note to deliver, authorities said Tuesday.

Randall Scott King, 49, of Hogansville, was listed in critical condition Tuesday afternoon at Columbus Medical Center.

The alleged victim told police that King abducted her from a Metropolitan Atlanta Rapid Transit Authority (MARTA) parking lot in Atlanta on the evening of November 17 and took her to his residence in Hogansville, where the assault allegedly occurred, Hogansville police said in a statement.

A MARTA police report indicated the alleged kidnapping took place at the Lakewood station, a few miles north of Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport. MARTA police were notified of the incident by police in Union City, an Atlanta suburb.

The woman was brought by someone to Union City Police on November 18, where she gave her account, Union City Detective Gloria Hodgson said. The woman told officers that King had offered her a ride, then later assaulted her, Hodgson said.

MARTA is assisting in the investigation, spokesman Lyle Harris told CNN.

King, a behavior detection officer, has been with TSA for more than five years, said TSA spokesman Jon Allen.

"We are cooperating fully with law enforcement during this ongoing investigation," Allen said.

Hogansville police said they obtained criminal warrants for King.

"The victim stated that she was released by Mr. King who provided her with a suicide note and instructions on where to deliver it," the statement said.

Acting on information from MARTA police, Hogansville officers "obtained a search warrant and entered Mr. King's residence. Upon entry into Mr. King's residence Mr. King was found to have several wounds about his body," the statement said. It was not clear specifically what type injuries King had or when he was found.

Hogansville is 50 miles southwest of Atlanta.

The department would not provide more specifics of the investigation. A call left at King's residence was not immediately returned.

She presented to police still bound in the leopard skin handcuffs he had bound her in to commit the assault.

This professional was a profiler. 5 yrs with the TSA and a behaviour detection specialist.... "Next woman or child to search please!"!



Not many wanting to know if the U.S> Military plans above could possibly be true.

Maybe better to not think about it hey



And More
Heathrow
Not nude
Keep me safe
Scanners MUST be safe! The government told me they are

[Edited on 25/11/10 by FFTS]

Hmmm it's gone quiet...

So much for debate

You'll love this! Anyone you know?
Youtube video

[Edited on 26/11/10 by FFTS]

Blah Blah Blah change the record, are you bored at home and cant think of anything that has something to do with cars.

quote:

---

Originally posted by baldeagle
Blah Blah Blah change the record, are you bored at home and cant think of anything that has something to do with cars.

---