get down there and neutralise the issue Scott!
On a side note have you seen the film "taken"? I imagine you to be like Liam Neeson but with back ache 
I won't be going anywhere (have the Dentist at 2:30).
I'd imagine that Ivan (T66) will be hovering about in the sky over there though!
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
I won't be going anywhere (have the Dentist at 2:30).
I'd imagine that Ivan (T66) will be hovering about in the sky over there though!
BBC reporting that Police think they have found his body.
Holy Cr@p!
what a sad sad world,
but just how did it happen, I thought the government had got rid of illegal guns?
Im expecting a big backlash towards the legal shooters after this event
I always look at events like this and wonder, if the public could get permission to carry arms, how many would have died then,
holy cock!:O
according to cumbria police website it looks like the git topped himself in boot woods
HOORAY!
Terrible!
quote:
Originally posted by tony-devon
what a sad sad world,
but just how did it happen, I thought the government had got rid of illegal guns?
yeah indeed theres a lot of them, sorry my sarcastic comment was just aimed at the useless politicians that will no doubt have some major knee jerk
reaction to this event
I feel very sorry for the families of those killed or injured, but at least the selfish twat is dead and its over
luckily in my opinion that he topped himself
saves the taxpayer a fortune and at least the job didnt fall to an armed response officer who then isnt allowed to work and faces endless questions
and paperwork for just doing the job he is paid and trained to do.
quote:
Originally posted by tony-devon
what a sad sad world,
but just how did it happen, I thought the government had got rid of illegal guns?
Im expecting a big backlash towards the legal shooters after this event
I always look at events like this and wonder, if the public could get permission to carry arms, how many would have died then,
quote:
Originally posted by Jasper
quote:
Originally posted by tony-devon
what a sad sad world,
but just how did it happen, I thought the government had got rid of illegal guns?
Im expecting a big backlash towards the legal shooters after this event
I always look at events like this and wonder, if the public could get permission to carry arms, how many would have died then,
Are you for real??????
If the public had permission to carry guns, then every Saturday night in your local town centre would be like living in the Wild West.
Guns kill people, more guns out there means more people die .....
If you're a Charlton Heston lover, then go and live in the US and enjoy their death rate by gun crime.
the comments about schools is just stupid I have to agree, they are usually picked on because the nutter is from that school and has problems there or
something similar
I didnt say that it should happen or that it was a great idea, I just said that I often wondered
would the typical thieving scrote go robbing multiple houses if he was aware that the owner of that house would most likely have a gun and might shoot
them?
its something that we will never know here anyway
the only thing that I would say that it sounds like a shotgun was used in this horrific shooting spree, if owned illegally then theres not a lot that
could have been done
however if it was held legally then it backs up what I have felt for a long time, that the licensing with regards to shotguns needs a major shakeup
and this is coming from a shooter!
Well, as somebody who was applying their handgun licence at the time of Dunblaine.
I can safely say, I can buy a pistol easier, quicker, and cheaper than when they were legal. I have been offered guns before now in backstreet pubs
in Nottingham and Manchester. I have reported these incidents to the police.
The law worked well before, but unfortunately, 1 nutter got through the checks. At least then there was checks on the people who had handguns, unlike
now, where any loon who thinks he's a "Gangsta" can get 1 with little hassle.
Sorry but there's no excuse or justification for owning a gun...... or any other dedicated weapon come to that. and if you admire the
'beauty' of something whose sole reason for existing is to kill things then I think you need a bit of looking at........
quote:
Originally posted by Jasper
quote:
Originally posted by tony-devon
what a sad sad world,
but just how did it happen, I thought the government had got rid of illegal guns?
Im expecting a big backlash towards the legal shooters after this event
I always look at events like this and wonder, if the public could get permission to carry arms, how many would have died then,
Are you for real??????
If the public had permission to carry guns, then every Saturday night in your local town centre would be like living in the Wild West.
Guns kill people, more guns out there means more people die .....
If you're a Charlton Heston lover, then go and live in the US and enjoy their death rate by gun crime.
guns dont kill people!
and they dont exist for the sole purpose of killing things
shooting is a sport, an olympic sport at that, as well as pest control
people shoot for the same reasons that some of you take your cars to tracks and hammer round trying to go faster and set a new lap time
competition
how many people die each year in the UK in gun related accidents?
how many die in car accidents, oops lets ban cars LOL
once again it will be the legal owners that get hammered over it, as they are the only ones the police can have a go at, as the criminals walk free
however as I have said, I do feel that shotgun licenses do need to be looked at and changes made, you dont need good reason, you dont have to proove
that you have been using it, and you arent limited to how many you own!
crazy sh*t
quote:
Originally posted by jollygreengiant
quote:
Originally posted by Jasper
quote:
Originally posted by tony-devon
what a sad sad world,
but just how did it happen, I thought the government had got rid of illegal guns?
Im expecting a big backlash towards the legal shooters after this event
I always look at events like this and wonder, if the public could get permission to carry arms, how many would have died then,
Are you for real??????
If the public had permission to carry guns, then every Saturday night in your local town centre would be like living in the Wild West.
Guns kill people, more guns out there means more people die .....
If you're a Charlton Heston lover, then go and live in the US and enjoy their death rate by gun crime.
I am not going to get into any sort of back wards and forwards on this, as the very sad result of one person going over the edge has had such sad results.
You can NEVER legislate to stop the individual having such a severe breakdown and doing what he has done.
As for gun ownership, always citing the alledged unsafe extreme of America is a fairly typical kneejerk political reaction. In Switzerland gun ownership is almost mandatory as is enlistment in their Armed services. The result is that armed bank robberies and events such as todays are few and far between because if someone kicks off, then they know that their chances of survival are next to nill and it will all be over much quicker.
Guns DO NOT kill. People using guns kill.
Each time the government controlled gun ownership with tighter legislation, illegal gun ownership has seemed to increase.
The above statements are MY opinion and in leiu of the sad circumstances I shall make NO further reply as a mark of respect for those who have today very sadly lost thier lives today.
My thoughts are with those of the families that have lost loved ones today. I.P.E.S.
[Edited on 2/6/10 by jollygreengiant]
Guns don't kill people.
bullets do.
leaving guns at the range is not such a great idea in the current way of thinking
its considered more of a threat, should the range security be breached, as it could and would, then they would gain access to a whole heap of guns, in
my club alone I would hate to think of the number that would be there!
it would also make shooting at other events and venues a pain if your local club is a fair drive in the opposite direction etc
peoples reaction to events like this is no surprise, and I fully understand the negative attitude towards firearm ownership.
however when people are as unhinged as that guy, then I dont think it would have mattered if it was a plank of wood, a golf club or a carving knife,
he would have harmed someone no matter what.
quote:
Originally posted by Jasper
2. Switzerland .... have you ever been out on a Saturday night in Switzerland? I have, and it's got to be one of the most boring places on earth. The Swiss are not like us, or Americans, or most other people, they are on the whole MUCH more well off, much better educated, and much more conservative. The reason they don't have a lot of gun crime isn't because everybody walks around armed to the teeth (I go to Switzerland quite regularly and know quite a few Swiss people, none of them own guns or would carry one around), it's because it's an extremely affluent country without a huge divide between rich and poor. To say they don't have much armed or any other crime because they are all armed is just nonsense.
quote:
Originally posted by tony-devon
however when people are as unhinged as that guy, then I dont think it would have mattered if it was a plank of wood, a golf club or a carving knife, he would have harmed someone no matter what.
quote:
Originally posted by Jasper
How many people do you think would have been killed at Columbine if the killed had been armed with a plank of wood or a golf club ?????
I used to shoot pistols before Dunblaine. Then the knee jerk reaction was 'all guns are bad, all people that shoot must be bad, lets ban
them'.
Unfortunatly this has NOT stopped shootings from happening. It never will.
There ARE things that everyday people can use to kill people. These things are used. Banning guns of whatever sort will not stop these things
happening. Which is a real shame.
The next comment is NOT intended to be read as an excuse not to ban guns. But every year 3,000 people are killed by drink drivers.
An item that anyone can get hold of easily, whether you have a driving license or not. Yet what measures are taken to reduce those deaths? TV adverts.
Imagine if 15 years ago guns were not banned yet instead drink driving was somehow erradicated. How many more people would be alive today.
As said, don't read too much into that. The families of todays victims will be totally devastated. But banning shotguns will not make a
difference to their grief.
I guess there's an argument to be had regarding 'mad' or 'bad' when talking about illegal firearm use.
'Bad' people tend to use guns to shoot other 'bad' people, or in the commission of individual criminal acts whereby the odd decent
spud gets shot. These guns are not legally held.
'Mad' people tend to use guns to commit suicide, or if they've really lost the plot, then to shoot as many people within a group who
they feel has 'aggrieved' them in some way, and then commit suicide. These people are called 'Spree-Killers'. Their guns are
almost always legally held.
Logic dictates that as long as guns are available - legally, or otherwise - then we will continue to have these sorts of incidents. Personally, I
think that we should cut down on the number of legally held firearms to livestock farmers and gamekeepers only.
I understand that shooting is a very popular sport and I see no reason why it couldn't continue - I would however probably want sporting-firearms
owned by and kept at a shooting club.
quote:
Originally posted by D Beddows
Sorry but there's no excuse or justification for owning a gun...... or any other dedicated weapon come to that.
the storing at a club thing is as far as I am aware, actually not the route that the firearms licencing people want to go down the route of
I have had a bit of a work out and in my opinion if all the members of the club that I attend kept their ammo and firearms at the club, not only would
this massively increase costs, but this aside, it would mean that in one concentrated place you would probably have in the region of 800-1000 rifles,
long barreled revolvers and pistols, and black powder revolvers etc etc, and 100,000's of rounds of ammunition
not such a good idea when its look at like that.
Picture is worth a thousand words:
Description
Darren
Beaten to it, I was gonna say with all this talk of Switzerland that I was under the impression they had the highest gun death rate of any country in
the world. Also the thing about making guns legal reducing crime is rubbish. If guns were easy to get hold of then you wouldn't go burgling
without one, then you end up in a situation with either just the criminal being armed or having two armed people shooting it out in a small place
which will end in serious injuries.
I dissagree with the earlier comment that its a good thing he killed himself. To me that means he won. People moan alot about our legal system and say
people aren't treated harshly enough but had he been caught theres no way he would have gotten away with an easy punishment.
quote:
Originally posted by morcus
I dissagree with the earlier comment that its a good thing he killed himself. To me that means he won.
Some guns but not many are kept at ranges.
To expect all shooters to keep their rifles at ranges is like asking people with sportscars to keep them all in one car park. Would you want to travel
all the way to the car park to drive your car? Do firearms or cars actually cause more deaths per year?
Keeping £££s of kit and ammo in one place is not only going to be expensive for the very poorly funded clubs but an extremely attractive target to
thieves.
No matter how much legislation is put in place, if someone wants to get a gun they will do. And they are needed anyway for pest control, as well as a
deterrent.
My grandad who was an army pistol champion (and trained the olympic team at one point) had to give up his absolute pride and joy after Dunblaine, and
it was horrible for him to have to send away his pride and joy to be decommisioned. Very much like seeing your car crushed, even though you had never
broken any motoring laws.
Let's hope there isn't a knee jerk reaction this time...
quote:
Originally posted by james h
Some guns but not many are kept at ranges.
To expect all shooters to keep their rifles at ranges is like asking people with sportscars to keep them all in one car park. Would you want to travel all the way to the car park to drive your car? Do firearms or cars actually cause more deaths per year?
Keeping £££s of kit and ammo in one place is not only going to be expensive for the very poorly funded clubs but an extremely attractive target to thieves.
No matter how much legislation is put in place, if someone wants to get a gun they will do. And they are needed anyway for pest control, as well as a deterrent.
My grandad who was an army pistol champion (and trained the olympic team at one point) had to give up his absolute pride and joy after Dunblaine, and it was horrible for him to have to send away his pride and joy to be decommisioned. Very much like seeing your car crushed, even though you had never broken any motoring laws.
Let's hope there isn't a knee jerk reaction this time...
I disagree with your analogy, it would be more akin to making you leave a track car at a track which would make sense. If you only use a gun at a
range, why bring it home? Having weapons where you can access them without other people knowing about it is dangerous, for you and others. What
happens the one day that you get pissed or someone pushes you over the edge? or when you wake up in the night and think theres someone in your house?
I like alot of people have on very few occaisions flipped out and done stupid things (Like stopping in front of a huge lorry driver and treatening to
smash his face in, I'm lucky there was someone with me who managed to diffuse things) and there are times where had I had a gun there could have
been very serious consequences.
You might argue that you'll never do something like that, but you don't know and never will.
For the Record I think the current legislation makes sense even if there are alot of illegal guns about.
quote:
Originally posted by james h
My grandad who was an army pistol champion (and trained the olympic team at one point) had to give up his absolute pride and joy after Dunblane, and it was horrible for him to have to send away his pride and joy to be decommissioned.
Let's hope there isn't a knee jerk reaction this time...
Total is now up to 12 dead (plus himself) 25 injured This will raise a lot of questions about gun ownership if he acquired them legally. It's
everybody's legal right to own a shotgun at the moment and the police have to grant you a certificate if you apply unless there are serious
medical or mental grounds not to.
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
quote:
Originally posted by james h
My grandad who was an army pistol champion (and trained the olympic team at one point) had to give up his absolute pride and joy after Dunblane, and it was horrible for him to have to send away his pride and joy to be decommissioned.
Let's hope there isn't a knee jerk reaction this time...
Horrible?
'Horrible' is walking through the gym-hall in a rural Scottish primary school shortly after a deranged local with legally held hand-guns had just waltzed through it and had shot sixteen kids and their teacher dead.
quote:
Originally posted by morcus
I disagree with your analogy, it would be more akin to making you leave a track car at a track which would make sense. If you only use a gun at a range, why bring it home? Having weapons where you can access them without other people knowing about it is dangerous, for you and others. What happens the one day that you get pissed or someone pushes you over the edge? or when you wake up in the night and think theres someone in your house? I like alot of people have on very few occaisions flipped out and done stupid things (Like stopping in front of a huge lorry driver and treatening to smash his face in, I'm lucky there was someone with me who managed to diffuse things) and there are times where had I had a gun there could have been very serious consequences.
You might argue that you'll never do something like that, but you don't know and never will.
For the Record I think the current legislation makes sense even if there are alot of illegal guns about.
The point I'm making is this... it's a 'bit-of-a-shame' for your Grandad to have to deactivate his handgun - it's not
'horrible'!
The facts are straightforward... Hungerford (16 murdered)... Dunblane (17 murdered)... both perpetrated by nutters with legally held
firearms!
And now Cumbria... 12 murdered. Details not yet clear, but I'll say there's more than a fair chance that Derrick Bird used legally
registered firearms!
Tell me the last time there was a 'spree-killing' in the UK that didn't involve legally registered firearms...
this guy left his house with the intent to kill people. that in itself is more dangerous than owning a gun.
edit: im very against people owning guns without reason. im not trying to defend people who think they have a good reasons to keep something designed
for the sole purpose of killing stuff, without a damn good reason.
[Edited on 2/6/10 by dinosaurjuice]
un-believable what has happened i'm speechless 1 of the shooting was 400yrds from my house and my mate was on the taxi rank when the taxi driver
was killed
[Edited on 2/6/10 by silky16v]
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
The point I'm making is this... it's a 'bit-of-a-shame' for your Grandad to have to deactivate his handgun - it's not 'horrible'!
The facts are straightforward... Hungerford (16 murdered)... Dunblane (17 murdered)... both perpetrated by nutters with legally held firearms!
And now Cumbria... 12 murdered. Details not yet clear, but I'll say there's more than a fair chance that Derrick Bird used legally registered firearms!
Tell me the last time there was a 'spree-killing' in the UK that didn't involve legally registered firearms...
I certainly hope there isnt a ban, will cost the government a fortune in one way or another, compensation for equipement, and all the unemployed
people as a result
the last ban did nothing but put more guns into the hands of criminals and create the fear of guns that we have today in this country
terrible ........... no words come close to how sad this is .......... i hope he took a while to die and he felt regret and pain for what he
had just done
quote:
this guy left his house with the intent to kill people. that in itself is more dangerous than owning a gun.
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
snip
The facts are straightforward... Hungerford (16 murdered)... Dunblane (17 murdered)... both perpetrated by nutters with legally held firearms!
And now Cumbria... 12 murdered. Details not yet clear, but I'll say there's more than a fair chance that Derrick Bird used legally registered firearms!
Tell me the last time there was a 'spree-killing' in the UK that didn't involve legally registered firearms...
So when will the media blame-game start? Who will be the first to get the sack?