Hi all. I'm new to this game but have been watching the market for a while and can't wait to get started. However, you lot may be able to help me get some sleep for a change by helping with a few questions!
Basically whose kit builds the best car for a fireblade or Blackbird engine. My shortlist is Stuart Taylor (who didn't impress much on the phone and who don't offer a manual), MK who seem well established and very helpful, and Mac#1 who seemed really enthusiastic. Ignoring the cost difference is there any advice available on making the best choice?

Many thanks

Ed (newbie)

PS Also is the engine choice good (hayabusa is a bit pricy)

Don't ignore MNR. Their VortX impressed me. The GRP seemed better to me than the MK.

As for engine, look at an R1. It has more go than a fireblade, is easy to use in a car (just need a sump baffle, rather than a dry sump or shortened sump) and is cheaper than a blackbird. The blackbird is awesome though.

Will check their website but the Which kit publicity photo is "distinctive" how does it look in the flesh?

In my opinion the MNR looks good in reality. Marc and Chris at MNR are very helpful... dont dismiss it without looking closely.

R1 is the current pick of the bunch...but any of the top engines with exception of the GSXR1000 (unless you want the expense of dry sump) could be used, blackbird's are a borderline case due to oil surge too...

By all accounts show Stuart Taylor the money and he's helpful if rather short in his replies (he is northern after all).

He's a very busy man with lots of people asking him for help who aren't even building his cars or have bought a 5 pound item & expect the level of service he gives to someone buying a full kit. I'll let you decide if this is good / bad customer service.

I haven't bought anything off him yet and have been put off by his brisk attitude, but asking for a price off him whilst he's preparing a car to race in 10 minutes time probably isn't the best time!

(see comment added later on)

[Edited on 10/6/05 by MikeR]

I was new in July last year. It soon leaves you. Welcome to the mad-house. You have made the first best step - you wont regret logging on here.

The MNR looks very impressive. Well worth a look. Its difficult for anyone on this site to give you an objective oppinion on whos kit is best. We are all biassed to some degree by personal experience and not many have had the priveledge of comparing them back to back. |The finished cars are all very different.

I shortlisted Mac1, MNR and MK. Ichose Mac 1 over MK. If MNR had done a successful SVA at that time my choice between MNR and Mac1 would have been extremely difficult.

Take your time and enjoy chossing. Make them all work for your order. Iam very please with my purchase but that is not to say the others arent good. All of the kits have pros and cons and that is for you to decide. All i can say is so far i havent found any negatives with my purchase, i know some of the kits outthere are much harder to build and get a good job.

Why a BEC?? If performance is all you after then fair enough. I need civilised weekend jaunts as well as occasional track fun so opted for car engine (Pinto for now, its easy).

I have an Indy and whilst it is good, for my purposes (Hill climbing) I think an MNR might have been even better Marc is very knowledgeable on car set up and racing.

HTH

Mark

I like the reputation of Stuart Taylor and wouldn't let an attitude put me off the design (or racing success) but I normally do question (research!!) things so would need help on the telephone during the build. However the main thing is he doesn't have a build manual and said the Build your own<£250 one wasn't great either, so what do I do?

Firstly, I concur what Colibriman said, R1 is a great engine, well established in kit cars now and seems fairly easy to fit and reliable. Maybe he'll sell you a cheap one

As far as which manufacturer goes I don't know about Stuart Taylor except to say that other people have told me that they have had the same experiences as you have with them.

MK are very helpful but I do find it frustrating at times that they don't take credit cards and that's a real pain when you want something quick.

Marc at MNR is very knowledgeable and very helpful and I have had some very nice bits from him. He has alot of experience in the racing world and I think if I was doing it all over again MNR would be very high on my list, a big plus is that they have a once piece rearside panels whcih as far as I am concerned saves alot of hassle.

As for MAC#1 I cannot speak highly enough of these guys, you said they were enthusiastic on the phone and that is exactly what they are when you meet them. I am not even building a MAC#1 car and I have phoned them for advice on numerous occassions and they are always without exception willing to help.

In the end the choice is yours, I suggest visiting all three at their locations (quite near each other) and also get a ride in one of their cars.

Rich.

I bought the following from Stuart Taylor Motorsport (Ian Gray);

Chassis,
Front and rear suspension parts,
Bush set,
AVO shocks,
Aluminium body panels,
6 piece fibreglass set.

All parts were of good quality. Solid powder coating, thick fibreglass with good colour and neat welding on all joints.

I have found that Ians attitude doesn't seem to change no matter how much money you give him.

I don't think it's anything personal just him

Edited to add; the lack of a build manual doesn't hurt in my opinion. It makes you think about what you are doing and promotes a bit of personal freedom in the design - which is what I wanted

[Edited on 10/6/05 by JAG]

i would say that customer after sales support is better than a build manual. In honesty you wont need a manual. I find it very useful that i can call into Mac1 at any time or phone them for help and advise. I have found Mark and Colin to be very very helpful. Even if you dont buy the kit off them they are a good parts supplier and will still help you. There approach to customer service is highly commendable. I also felt that Marc N could offer the same. Custome support is something you will value but hard to put a cost to until you start. You need to go with what you are happy with as a complete package. Advice on here is good but dont forget it will always be based on peoples experience. Try and talk to people who have built cars at the shows. You will be amazed by how much they will divulge.

I cant comment on ST as i have never spoke to them. iwasnt happy with the response i got from Mk when i visitted but they were busy prepping for a show at the time.

Guys, this is my first thread and it has been invaluable. Thanks a million.

The Vortex looks a superb option.

R1 it is then- and even know where to get one!

OOOOOOOOOhhhhh can't wait!!

Ian Gray at Stuart Taylor is a very knowledgable man, but is also very busy. Parts are very good quality, we bought quite a few parts off him. The Stuart Taylor is basically standard Locost though.

Adam

Darren, forgot to say, my (factory built) Westfield was petrol (gone forever) and I have an M3 for everyday use. I just fancied a change and at the hill climbs I tingle when bike power goes past!!
Thanks again for the help.
Ed

i was very impressed with Mac1 for help and information when i was looking around for potential kits. They are great guys and are keen to help.
at the time, MK were redoing their website so i couldnt get as much information regarding pricing. plus there was some public forum slagging going on and I didnt think that was very professional, so that put me off a bit.
theres lots of satisfied customers though so they are obviously doing something right!

in the end, I went for MNR as I was impressed by the chassis developments and race engineering experience. and since i made the choice there have been even more developments to make building easier (like the new bodywork and transmission tunnel surround), so Im even happier with the choice
pound for pound it'll probably be a little bit pricier than the others but its good stuff.

all this personal opinion BTW!

Mark and Collin at Mac# 1 are with out a doubt the best people in the industry i have dealt with for customer service.

I am building an MK but have bought loads of bits from them because they are just sooo bloody helpful!

Having looked at Marcs MNR race car at a show this year I would have to say it looked superb and well engineered. They also do a nice looking inboard shock option. Marc is also a top bloke.

If i was starting again it would be a choice between these two manufacturers.

Just want to add something as my original post wasn't clear.

Despite what it sounds like I most likely will be buying some bits from Stuart Taylor. I know a number of people who have and are happy with their purchases and i've seen what they've bought I'm happy with the quality.

I have a Stuart Taylor and echo all the above comments about quality of engineering and would add 2 things:

1 - big difference - it is locost based (i.e. narrower back axle, escort steering rack, cortina (or lovely alloy!) uprights) WHEREAS the MNR, MAC1, MK, etc are all sierra based - wider rear end, sierra steering & uprights, etc.

The main difference will be the ST has lighter components, but a bit harder to get hold off from donors.

2 - Some say Ian is difficult, but I've always found him to be direct - what I mean is if you ask him a direct question, he'll probably know the answer and be happy to help.
What he won't do is want to be your best friend, buy you a drink, and spend hours having general 'chats' and umming & aahing.

That's not a problem to me, but I can see some people might not like it.

Adam.

Have just spent a half hour on the phone to MNR, spoke to Marc and his Dad. The racing experience and engineering knowlege really impressed. Again they thing the R1 is a good bet but also suggested the ZX12R dry sumped.
I have to say without visiting any factories yet, they have shot into the lead, even though the shape is a little less "traditional". I am also relieved that there are members here that are doing MNR's with R1's
Cheers

I built a Stuart Taylor with bike power, about 4 years ago, at the time i reckoned that theirs was about the best locost kit available, but the world moves on, and if i build another i will be knocking on MNR's door no question.

Good luck whichever way you decide.

Al

Wadders has summed it up exactly for me also!!!

I love the proportions of the Stuart taylor car, I don't generally like the look of the wider cars, and I don't like the sierra components used where they are not really the "right" solution.

But if I were to do it again, MNR are very helpful, and have some serious engineering input.

The only problem with MNR from my perspective is the bodywork doesn't fit a standard car chassis

Whereabouts are you? That could also have an influence over which manufacturer you eventually decide.

Have a read of a few build diaries, to get a general feel for different builds and if you can, get a ride in the actual cars themselves.

There's also some good shows coming up like Newark on the 18/19th June, so try and get yourself along to have a look at what's on offer and maybe even get a ride

Go to Newark.You must see the all cars you are looking at.I.m.o you'll go with MNR.Newest on the block therefore up to date.Quality,Helpful and if you compare like for like correctly,best value for money.I know Marc and Chris so you can argue i'm bais,but they aren't as busy as they are by being just another manufacter of a seven'ish car.

My two penn'orth:

I've got a Stuart Taylor and I think the quality is fine (especially the carbon/fibre dash). I too have found Ian a bit short on the phone, which can be a little off-putting, but he does seem to know his stuff. The bonnet is lower than some, so consider what engine you want to put in (I've had to put a biggish scoop on to clear a K-Series). The narrower rear end wasn't a problem for me as I bought a rolling chassis with the Escort axle already fitted.

I've read good things about MK

Can't comment about MNR

Colin and Mark at Mac#1 have been a fantastic help on the phone, and their parts are both good quality and well priced, from what I have bought. Their cars look good from what I have seen (at Detling and in pics), so I think I would be tempted to go for a Mac#1 if I were starting again from scratch.

Before you choose, look at other people's opinions, but make up your own mind from talking to the suppliers and looking at the finished product.

Good luck

I tried to buy some shocks off Ian Stuart Taylor Grey when I was building. I'll not bother in future.

My ten bob's worth

when i was looking at these type of cars i went to MNR first and found the guy's very helpfull and friendly.
The car's i saw were good quality and alot of thought and experiance had gone into the design.
the reason i didnt go with them was that i found them like for like with MK and Mac1 exspensive!
if cost is not an option then i would have seriously considered them,yes i know you get what you pay for but i didnt see such a big advantage to justify the cost

I went to MK and to be honest i couldnt fault them!!
They gave me a much time as i needed,were very truthfull about questions i asked and never slagged there competitors at all,in fact they said go and look at the rest and come back if i have any more concerns.
Demo ride's were not a problem at all and invited me to come back on a Saturday morning as it seams to be the best time to go and meet owners
i went to track days and saw many MK owners and asked them out right what they thought of MK and there products and the reply was "if i was going to build another car it would be an MK" and that speaks volumes to me
People say that there's is better than there's and all that but in who's opinion!!
THERE OWN!!!
After all they all want your money!!

if you do go to newark,track me down,id only be to glad to take you for a spin in the vortx
Rescued attachment vort.jpg

Oooh i shudder with pleasure everytime I see a picture of your car Andy.



Adam

now i wish it had that effect on the mrs

here's my MK Indy 16v Vauxhall
to compare
Rescued attachment jvn159.jpg

Mk
Rescued attachment jvn155.jpg

Andy D's MNR is a cracking car.

That level of detail on that MK that Sonic has just posted is first class - Look v v v desirable

I would have gone for black wheels, but other than that its amazing!

I love the dash.

Adam

well as snoopy did it,take a read of this then decide,review by kitcar magazine

http://www.myvortx.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/april%20mnr.htm

and its this years review from april

[Edited on 12/6/05 by andy d (rizla)]

quote:

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fact 1 both mk,s and mnr,s bodywork are produced by the same company so they are the same

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quote:

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personally a 1 piece backand sides is not as good when you have to repair it and it does happen

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Why not go for something a bit different



Gemini Side

Very similar chassis design. Same multitude of engine options. Same weight. Same big grin on your face.

If you want the ultimate "locost" then Stuart Taylor are meant to be producing a "works" chassis based on the 2005 RGB Pheonix designs, but for the Locost bodywork. The Pheonix chassis is built for them by Caged and is gorgeous, Im not sure when it will materialise though, maybe not until the winter, and also if the Pheonix chassis price is anything to go by, it will be considerably more expensive than a normal Locost chassis, but probably worth it if you want the best.

Having said that, I echo the opinions on Ian Gray's general demeanor towards customers, it certainly got to me at times despite having spent a 4 figure sum with him when I originally did mine.

[Edited on 30/10/05 by ChrisGamlin]

3 1/2 years ago I looked around and at that time found MK and ST to be the only options at that time suitable.
At the Harrogate show I looked at the Indy and liked it,walked to ST and asked about adjustability on his very nice car.
After a awhile Ian lifted his head from a book and said "why do you want to adjust anything?"
I walked to the MK stand and ordered a chassis from Martin, who has since become a good friend.
I dont regret buying my Indy for a minute and would buy another ,MNR and Mac 1 are very good and I have always found the lads at Mac 1 very helpful despite the fact they upset MK when they had their chassis built to very similar plans.
I also thought that the MNR has very strong lineage to Martins Indy.
All four are very good I think you just have to look at each and decide which is the best for you,I dont think price should enter into it too much as you find the difference is minimal.Also over a couple of years of buying a bit here and there you would not even notice a difference.
Of course the Mrs still thinks mine cost £250.(I hope)...
DEAN........