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Possible next generation Locost?
gallons perminute - 8/8/12 at 11:02 PM

Been lucky enough to have been able to design and build lots of projects over the years. Some were finished and other fell by the wayside. One that I loved was my slant on a next generation Locost. It was to be a tandem type two seater that could use a drivetrain from a front wheel drive car. If you were a Ford man you fitted Ford parts but if you preferred VW ,Pug or Vauxhall power you fitted an engine and box from their range. I spent a fair bit of time on the project but sadly never finished it as other opportunities came along. I kept promising to pick it up one day but that seems unlikely

Pictures show my initial rough sketch and the prototype chassis that I made. Tons of work to do but the hardest bit is done.





If anyone fancies one or is interested in taking on the project let me know. Willing to part with what we have and the rights to put it into production for not much money.

mookaloid - 8/8/12 at 11:29 PM

reminds me of the carcraft cyclone


Slimy38 - 9/8/12 at 05:31 AM

Nice idea, is it actually going to be a hard top or is that simply for the concept drawing? The chassis looks like it's going to be a single seater, is that correct?

I do like the idea of taking a front wheel drive engine and simply moving it to the back, I heard about it first on the MEV vehicles with the Focus engine. It seems like a logical concept without having to worry about converting to RWD. I seem to remember one of the locost books talks about putting the engine in the back as an idea, but never really covers it in any greater detail.

Ivan - 9/8/12 at 06:43 AM

Looks nice but to me the proportions of your chassis looks very different to those of the sketch - for instance roof looks much higher on the chassis.

I suppose you have carefully considered the triangulation of the chassis as there are some big bays untriangulated.

One of the problems these types of designs in kit cars face is that unless they are "replicas" of some iconic car model or style of car (Le Mans or sports racing) which seems to be the main driver of desireability and marketing success, they face an uphill struggle to find buyers - there are very few successfull kits that do not meet the above criteria.

hughpinder - 9/8/12 at 09:55 AM

I think you're right that this is the way it will go - FWD drivetrain in the rear (I am also building one, very slowly). The main challenges I see in making one for 'generic' engine/box etc are:
1. To keep the rear suspension geometry the same for all the options as some chassis rails seen to get in the way unless you design for a specific engine(because the drive shaft position will very depending on gearbox design, the sump gets in the way, the exhaust and inlet tracts mean you either need loads of space between the seat and engine, or rear body and engine, and if you want it generig you have to allow for both.
2. To get a body design that is attractive enough to attract punters - this is a problem as you need to allow a fairly long and tall engine bay back behind the seats to allow for different exhaust/inlet arrangements/position of drive shafts etc, and this tends to look clunky.
3. To get the weight distribution and handling right .
I hope you are not put off by these comments, and possibly you have designed all these in already.

One question - where will the radiator be. In the midi I'm doing I run the pipes through a central tunnel, but with two people in tandem, you wont have one (or is it rear rad/side pods?)

Best of luck
Hugh

balidey - 9/8/12 at 10:25 AM

Next generation locost? The 7 type car has been around longer than I have. I don't see there really being a need to have a next gen.
But I do admire your efforts.
The biggest problem with this layout of car is styling. Its been done many times, but I think one of the few that looks good is the Midlana currently being 'developed'. Well worth a look as it looks stunning so far.

Bare - 9/8/12 at 03:40 PM

Short answer??
Don't give up your day job.. Seriously.
One (the?) redeeming feature of a 7 type car is that with care one can build a passable Replica of a Lotus Super7 that DOES NOT look like a Shed Bodge... which invariably causes small boys to point and laugh.
Even so, many bungle even that.
Varying into DIY design removes even that small window to success.



[Edited on 9/8/12 by Bare]

zilspeed - 9/8/12 at 06:20 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Bare
Short answer??
Don't give up your day job.. Seriously.
One (the?) redeeming feature of a 7 type car is that with care one can build a passable Replica of a Lotus Super7 that DOES NOT look like a Shed Bodge... which invariably causes small boys to point and laugh.
Even so, many bungle even that.
Varying into DIY design removes even that small window to success.



[Edited on 9/8/12 by Bare]



Unfortunately, the list of potential donors grows ever shorter.
Yes, there will probably always be RWD BMWs, but their suitably is marginal at best.

FWD donors however, are absolutely everyhwere and you'd have to think always will be.

Madinventions - 9/8/12 at 08:49 PM

Sticking a FWD unit in the back is definitely an easy way to go and can be packaged into a fairly small enclosure. Here's my Mojo with a Ford Puma 1.7VCT lump in it.
Sylva Mojo
Sylva Mojo

And it's certainly not a 'big' car!
Tiny Mojo
Tiny Mojo

Ed.

owelly - 9/8/12 at 08:50 PM

quote:

If anyone fancies one or is interested in taking on the project let me know. Willing to part with what we have and the rights to put it into production for not much money.


I'm not entirely certain what it is you're selling! Have you built one of these cars yet or are you selling the 'put a FWD in the back of a tubular frame kit car' idea with an added 'here's a scribbled sketch of what it could look like, probably..'
What is it you actually have?

designer - 9/8/12 at 09:03 PM

Have to agree with owelly. What are you selling?

We see a sketch, and a bare chassis, without brackets!

A project involves a prototype, drawings, jigs and moulds.

SCAR - 10/8/12 at 05:58 AM

Interesting idea to have tandem seating.
This might be a silly question but as the chassis and the sketch appear to have no doors how do you get in with the roof on?

gallons perminute - 11/8/12 at 11:26 PM

Thanks to all who sent me a u2u.

A quick update for those that are interested.

I have had a few offers from folk who can see the potential of the design and are willing to "buy" into it. The money aspect is not that important but I mentioned it so that only those willing to spend something on it would get involved. I cannot do anything with it and want to pass it on because I feel it has tons of potential.

The design came about because a few of us locally have done the Lotus Seven/Caterham/Westfield/Locost competition thing and wanted to move on. For most of us it would be a third or fourth car and we wanted to keep things cheap, practical and fairly simple. Lets face it the "Seven" is a flawed design for competition use and in the Lotus era only did well because it was so light compared to the opposition. Years of development, ever more powerful engines and more and more expensive components had to be bought to keep the cars competitive. The bike engine craze kept it alive a little longer but it is still an outdated design and is now very expensive for open type competition use. Words that will upset a few I know but true.

We decided to try and reduce the weight, improve the traction and tidy up the aerodynamics as best we could while still retaining the "Locost" aspect for home building. Instead of two seats side by side we went for the tandem seat position. This also helps the weight, its distribution for competition use and allows for better corner weights. Other aspects we wanted to incorporate into the design were a mid engined layout, equal length driveshafts and fully adjustable suspension. The mid engine layout went when we priced suitable transaxles so a transverse engine and gearbox seemed the best compromise. Everyone has their preferred hot hatch, Honda/VW/Pug/Ford, so we surveyed most of them and found that the drivetrains were of similar size so that helped in establishing the rear engine area. Most hatch backs have usable uprights so again why not use them to keep things simple? It would be even better if the fronts and rear were the same. The chassis evolved into what you see in the picture and has good torsional rigidity despite having a large passenger opening. The fuel tank, cooling system and battery location would be under the engine cover to help get the balance right. It will easily handle the sort of horsepower that the best 2litre cars can put out. We decided to keep the bodywork simple and as you can see the sketch does not do anything for it aesthetically but is simple to make and slightly better than a Seven for drag. We thought about fitting a canopy but a structure that would help with rollover protection might be a better option. With such a substantial frame a weather protection system would be easy to make. Under 400kg? 200bhp? all possible.


So there you have it, the next generation Locost, or something thrown together in a shed. Make your mind up.

U2U me if you would like to take it on, I know it is not a complete project but I will list what is available and at what cost, hundreds rather than thousands. In keeping with the way of this forum feel free to slag it off if you have come up with something better.