ChrisW
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| posted on 28/11/13 at 06:34 PM |
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Design help needed - 360 steering and drive
Trying to come up with a way of having a wheel that is driven by an engine but can also turn through 360 degrees of steering.
To explain more clearly, the wheel needs to be able to turn through a full rotation of steering angle, a bit like a Dodgem. Ideally it would be able
to turn continuously but 'close to a full turn' is acceptable if not.
BUT the wheel also needs to be driven as in accept power from an engine.
Think of how a powered kids tricycle would work if the front wheel was driven by an engine instead of pedals.
I'm told a Westwood Clipper ride-on lawn mower has front wheels like this but the best I can find is this PDF, look on page 24.
http://81.223.123.133/etliste/WESTWOOD%201986%20-%202006/1990.pdf
I'm assuming that the drive shaft will have to go down inside the steering shaft somehow, but then the power of the engine is acting in the same
direction as the steering so I'm not sure whether there would be a load of force trying to turn the steering when the engine is under load. My
guess with the lawn mower is that the drive acts in opposite directions on each wheel so they counteract each other but ideally I only want one front
wheel (think about the tricycle again).
Ca any of the engineering masterminds on here suggest a way of doing this?
Chris
My gaff my rules
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minitici
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| posted on 28/11/13 at 06:43 PM |
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The Bond Minicar had a Villiers engine driving the front single wheel which rotated through 360 degrees to give reverse.
The engine was mounted to the wheel.
[Edited on 28/11/13 by minitici]
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nick205
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| posted on 28/11/13 at 06:49 PM |
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Simplest way would be to mount the engine and wheel together so the whole lot turns as one. Little fuel tank and everything.
You don't say what sort of power you're after, but based on the lawn tractor comment, not much?
Would an electric motor not be easier to package and give you better drive? A petrol engine will need some form of clutch or its likely to stall if
you turn the wheel quickly.
What are you actually trying to make?
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snapper
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| posted on 28/11/13 at 06:49 PM |
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French push bikes had a very small engine mounted on the wheel support forks
Drive transferred by wheel to wheel
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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RickRick
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| posted on 28/11/13 at 06:49 PM |
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is electric drive an option?
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snapper
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| posted on 28/11/13 at 06:54 PM |
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http://www.solex-international.com/
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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cloudy
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| posted on 28/11/13 at 06:58 PM |
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Hydraulic drive? Like this uses:
www.warnercars.com
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CNHSS1
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| posted on 28/11/13 at 07:57 PM |
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Http://m.green.autoblog.com/2007/02/22/picture-a-one-wheeled-harley-davidson-running-nitrous/
And if more power required...Harley engine plus nitrous!
[Edited on 28/11/13 by CNHSS1]
"Racing is life, everything else, before or after, is just waiting"---Steve McQueen
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designer
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| posted on 28/11/13 at 08:19 PM |
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Drive the wheel using a bevel gear to a vertical shift (to rotate with the steering), fitted with a horizontal drive wheel to accept chain drive, or
another bevel gear.
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Hector.Brocklebank
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| posted on 28/11/13 at 10:17 PM |
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already been done in industry
a rotator motor, to turn, with a drive motor for motive power
rotator accessory outlets will feed the drive motor and allow 360 turning
[Edited on 28/11/2013 by Hector.Brocklebank]
Some people can never handle the truth and always try to shoot the messenger instead of taking an honest look in the mirror (its always easier to
blame another than to face reality), but secretly they wish they could grow a pair and be the messenger !!!
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v8kid
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| posted on 6/1/14 at 05:41 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by minitici
The Bond Minicar had a Villiers engine driving the front single wheel which rotated through 360 degrees to give reverse.
The engine was mounted to the wheel.
[Edited on 28/11/13 by minitici]
I used a mkf bond as a daily driver when I was a student and the front wheel only rotated through 180 degrees. It was still quite impressive though in
that it could turn round in its own length.
Reverse was effected by running the engine in the opposite direction with a second set of points, it was a 2 stroke, and the siba starter operated in
both directions. The same system was used in all models from the mark a until the bug was introduced.
Really shitty car but it was all I could afford.
You'd be surprised how quickly the sales people at B&Q try and assist you after ignoring you for the past 15 minutes when you try and start a
chainsaw
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ChrisW
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| posted on 6/1/14 at 10:05 AM |
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Thanks for all the suggestions. Just realised I had not come back to you, but I can assure you that I read everything and it was food for thought.
I do need a full 360 turn, ideally continuous rotation ie no end stops at all.
The hydraulic idea looked possible, but all the kit looks quite 'heavy duty' for a tricycle-type vehicle and also expensive!
One thing I have realised is that a three-wheeled vehicle won't work. My theory here is that as the torque drive acts in the same axis as the
steering input the driver will always have to resist the torque of the engine trying to spin the steering. (Not sure if I have explained that very
well?). I'm thinking that with a four wheeled vehicle, or rather with two steering wheels, I can arrange it such that the drive shafts spin in
opposite directions and, as the steering is directly linked, the effects of engine torque should cancel out.
So I'm back to my original idea of using the front end from a Westwood Clipper.
 
Westwood Clipper steering
The only problem is getting hold of one. I've been told by a couple of people that they were horrible things to use and so weren't very
popular, meaning they are quite rare.
Chris
My gaff my rules
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Peteff
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| posted on 7/1/14 at 10:21 AM |
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Use castors on the front and make it a skid steer via the rear wheels.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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ChrisW
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| posted on 7/1/14 at 10:22 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Peteff
Use castors on the front and make it a skid steer via the rear wheels.
Thanks for the suggestion, but unfortunately the design requires it to be front wheel drive and steer.
Chris
My gaff my rules
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 7/1/14 at 11:58 AM |
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What about hamster balls. Stick an axle through, Bobs is your uncle.
Low power, but think about the fuel economy.
It will cost you peanuts.
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ChrisW
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| posted on 7/1/14 at 12:00 PM |
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Not sure a hamster has enough power to pull a go-kart with my lardy arse on it!
Chris
My gaff my rules
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hkp57
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| posted on 7/1/14 at 04:17 PM |
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Having limited information on your intent for this contraption its had to suggest something.
2 thoughts do spring to mind, one would be to bolt 2 diffs together via the input shaft. both would have to be welded to lock the drive though.
Mount 1 diff soild to your frame and then the second hangs from it, 2 wheels could be bolted to the diff flanges close together. tricky bit is
steering but it would be managable.
Think the better option would be to get a 50cc step through scooter and mount the whole back end on a shaft through a large bearing. With enough slack
in a fuel line and throttle cable it could work. Add a steering wheel or lever to the top of the shaft and your done.
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mark chandler
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| posted on 7/1/14 at 07:11 PM |
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Powered caravan jockey wheel?
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