franky
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| posted on 2/10/11 at 03:42 PM |
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re-engineered classic's
Looking to what I might do as a long term project to have alongside a kit I half fancy taking on a classic.
Something like a Triumph gt6 with modern running gear or if I could afford it a Datsun 240z. Has anyone done something like this? Having an open top
7 for sunny days and a 2dr coupe for the not so sunny days.
Part of the plan is to teach myself proper bodywork/repair skills then paint myself.
A bmw 328 in a gt6 chassis should be a good useable car if I could bring the rest of the running gear upto spec. A m3 lump in a 240z would be a money
pit but they look so bloody good!
Does anyone know of any good build threads for something like the above?
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scootz
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| posted on 2/10/11 at 03:45 PM |
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GT6... with IRS and an M3 6-cyl engine!
There you go... crack on! 
It's Evolution Baby!
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franky
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| posted on 2/10/11 at 03:55 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
GT6... with IRS and an M3 6-cyl engine!
There you go... crack on!
An m3 might twist the chassis a little too much. A 328 lump is an easy 220bhp and cheap as chips to buy
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sdh2903
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| posted on 2/10/11 at 04:00 PM |
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This has crossed my mind too. A friend of the family has offered me a triumph spitfire for not much money, but its been sat for ages. I fancied a
zetec transplant, shouldn't be too tricky.
however it would have to be a complete back to bare metal resto/rebuild and I just dont think I could commit to it at present.
150 bhp in a light-ish classic drop top would be pretty fun tho
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Bare
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| posted on 2/10/11 at 04:01 PM |
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I'd be giving a few second thoughts to using a GT6 for anything even driving it as it came from the factory. Having ownede a brand new one..
back then. These were truly Excrable excuses for a Car.
The handling was just Piss Poor.. period most anything beyond shopping duties and it was simply dangerous.
Yes some raced these.. but the level of modification required almost amounted to a new chassis fitted with a lightened GT6 body shell.
There is genuine reason Triumph is loooong dead.
[Edited on 2/10/11 by Bare]
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 2/10/11 at 04:03 PM |
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I thought I had seen a http://www.triumphspitfirelemans.com/phdi/p1.nsf/supppages/3409?opendocument&part=3 kit
[Edited on 2/10/11 by Mark Allanson]
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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franky
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| posted on 2/10/11 at 04:11 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Bare
I'd be giving a few second thoughts to using a GT6 for anything even driving it as it came from the factory. Having ownede a brand new one..
back then. These were truly Excrable excuses for a Car.
The handling was just Piss Poor.. period most anything beyond shopping duties and it was simply dangerous.
Yes some raced these.. but the level of modification required almost amounted to a new chassis fitted with a lightened GT6 body shell.
There is genuine reason Triumph is loooong dead.
[Edited on 2/10/11 by Bare]
The idea would be to convert to IRS which should go a lot of the way to sorting this. The 240z's are IRS but as they're a 'real
classic' I wouldn't really want to cut one around too much, also panels are expensive to buy.
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T66
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| posted on 2/10/11 at 04:12 PM |
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Read an article, maybe PPC - Did a Nissan 200 into a GT6 or Spitfire.
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franky
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| posted on 2/10/11 at 04:52 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by T66
Read an article, maybe PPC - Did a Nissan 200 into a GT6 or Spitfire.
I've been told that, its not in any of my old mags and can't find any info on line though.
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spiderman
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| posted on 2/10/11 at 04:54 PM |
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Hi Franky,
I have a dismantled GT6 MK2 with a pretty solid body which I was going to put my Cosworth Turbo in or a BMW straight 6.
I have since bought a complete GT6 with mot so the project is possibly for sale if you are interested send me a u2u and I will let you know a bit more
about it.
I have some pictures and details of more modern rear end (sierra) and different motors. I will try and load them into my photo archive for you to look
at.
[Edited on 2/10/11 by spiderman]
Spider
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 2/10/11 at 07:01 PM |
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a gt6 makes sense to me aswell , perfect for some good ole redblock turbo and back axle , maybe even a 6 .
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 2/10/11 at 07:35 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by franky
The idea would be to convert to IRS which should go a lot of the way to sorting this. The 240z's are IRS but as they're a 'real
classic' I wouldn't really want to cut one around too much, also panels are expensive to buy.
That means it would need IVA as well 
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franky
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| posted on 2/10/11 at 08:09 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by franky
The idea would be to convert to IRS which should go a lot of the way to sorting this. The 240z's are IRS but as they're a 'real
classic' I wouldn't really want to cut one around too much, also panels are expensive to buy.
That means it would need IVA as well
IVA doesn't bother me(except the cost) but why would it need it if you're using the original chassis+body? An IRS rear end from pics
i've seen on one is just a welded on frame to the chassis.
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cliftyhanger
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| posted on 2/10/11 at 08:11 PM |
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^^^^Why??
FWIW I am building a zetec spitfire, the first one rolled (diesel on the road, bad weather, trying to do 2000 miles in a weekend and getting halfway
through. ..........plus a blackspot where the plod attended, and calmly said that 5-6 cars a week went off in the same place. Nothing to do with the
suspension)
Anyway, my buld uses the original spit diff, plus CV jointed driveshafts to replace the rubber rotoflexes. Retains transverse leaf spring. It is
possible to pop alternative diffs in, Subaru fits 
As for hangling, GT6's can handle very well. In fact a gt6-suspensioned spitfire is leading the BRTDA newcomers autosolo challenge this year.
Can't be that bad if it is beating all the pugs, citroens and other cars out there
Should also be pointed out that BMW borrowed their IRS design directly from the Triumph saloons. So the company wasn't too shabby, let down by
BL really.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 2/10/11 at 08:13 PM |
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A lot of Lotus Plus2 have been given a Zetec and Sierra based rear end selling the original engine, box diff and suspension just about pays for the
car.
[Edited on 2/10/11 by britishtrident]
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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Benzine
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| posted on 2/10/11 at 08:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by franky
Does anyone know of any good build threads for something like the above?
retro rides 'readers rides' section of the forum is a good place for such things. There's a diesel scimitar on there, and my turbo
diesel volvo amazon (not actually got the engine in yet, tackling the rust first!) you'll find loads of old cars with different engines in
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franky
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| posted on 2/10/11 at 08:18 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by cliftyhanger
^^^^Why??
FWIW I am building a zetec spitfire, the first one rolled (diesel on the road, bad weather, trying to do 2000 miles in a weekend and getting halfway
through. ..........plus a blackspot where the plod attended, and calmly said that 5-6 cars a week went off in the same place. Nothing to do with the
suspension)
Anyway, my buld uses the original spit diff, plus CV jointed driveshafts to replace the rubber rotoflexes. Retains transverse leaf spring. It is
possible to pop alternative diffs in, Subaru fits
As for hangling, GT6's can handle very well. In fact a gt6-suspensioned spitfire is leading the BRTDA newcomers autosolo challenge this year.
Can't be that bad if it is beating all the pugs, citroens and other cars out there
Should also be pointed out that BMW borrowed their IRS design directly from the Triumph saloons. So the company wasn't too shabby, let down by
BL really.
I fancied doing it as an exercise really. What have been done to the back end to get them upto scratch?
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britishtrident
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| posted on 2/10/11 at 08:34 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by cliftyhanger
snip
Should also be pointed out that BMW borrowed their IRS design directly from the Triumph saloons. So the company wasn't too shabby, let down by
BL really.
Thats the trouble with getting info from one make forums BMW were using semi-trailing arms a whole ten years before Triumph.
Like swing axles the semi-trailing arm suspension can be made to work very well in dry conditions but in the wet they are prone to very sudden
breakaway.
Semi trailing arms also require a quite lot of static toe-in to prevent the wheels going into toe -out on bump, this results excessive tyre wear
and over heating of the outer edges which was encountered as problem on 1960s/1970s Triumph 2000/2500 Police vehicles.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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cliftyhanger
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| posted on 2/10/11 at 08:50 PM |
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Hmm, not sure about the grip issues with the saloons. They are remarkably sure-footed cars in all conditions.
So did BMW have the IRS system sorted back in the early 50's? That is news to me!
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britishtrident
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| posted on 2/10/11 at 09:41 PM |
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Not a grip issue a handling issue the problem was very sudden breakaway in the wet.
As for BMW having "it sorted" they didn't the 3 and 5 series needed careful handling in the wet until they went over to the Z
axle across the range. The Sierra could also be a bit whoopsy in the wet.
[Edited on 2/10/11 by britishtrident]
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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alistairolsen
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| posted on 3/10/11 at 06:37 AM |
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Id be using a complete donor floorpan and just fitting the shell. The only good thing about old cars is their appearance if we're all being
honest!
The only problem is you will end up with a Q plate doing that.
My Build Thread
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Benzine
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| posted on 3/10/11 at 10:18 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by alistairolsenThe only good thing about old cars is their appearance if we're all being honest!
and classic insurance, character, sound, possible free road tax, very easy to work on (both in terms of simplicity and in terms of space e.g. room to
get to components in the engine bay with greater ease), very few annoying acronyms (MAF, IAC, SIPS, ABS) they can GTFO IMHO, takes fewer resources to
keep an old car on the road than to make a new one, less/no depreciation...
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alistairolsen
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| posted on 3/10/11 at 10:45 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Benzine
quote:
Originally posted by alistairolsenThe only good thing about old cars is their appearance if we're all being honest!
and classic insurance, character, sound, possible free road tax, very easy to work on (both in terms of simplicity and in terms of space e.g. room to
get to components in the engine bay with greater ease), very few annoying acronyms (MAF, IAC, SIPS, ABS) they can GTFO IMHO, takes fewer resources to
keep an old car on the road than to make a new one, less/no depreciation...
Ok, first of all, from a daily driver point of view Id never buy a new car, and Im not promoting new cars.
As a weekend toy, even the cars id want to use are relatively old, but Id rather have, for instance, an opel manta on an E36 M3 floorpan, then an
actual manta, with its clarty live axle and poor choice of 80s 8v engines. Neither will suffer depreciation.
In terms of working on them, personally Modern cars with well thought out removal routes such as the BMW are nicer to live with than something that
just has lots of wasted space and will require significantly fewer maintenance operations!
Acronyms are there, feel free to use the full names, but from these sensors comes a cold starting, idle and limphome ability which cannot be matched
by carburettors.
Personally, I love the look of old cars, but would prefer to have modern suspension and engine and gearbox choices. Its just a shame you cannot get an
age related plate for the modern donor under points and then fit an older private plate so it all looks right.
My Build Thread
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r1_pete
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| posted on 3/10/11 at 11:19 AM |
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My last project was a zetec in an mgb, if you google zetec mgb my build blog is in the mgbclub online forum, would cut paste a link but just getting
to grips with this galaxy 10.1.
I had no mot or taxation/registration problems,it was a 71 built car so also qualified for free road tax, it was a wll worth while project, cheaper
than rebuilding the b engine, faster and more drivable to. My advice is go for it, modern running gear in classics can work well.
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franky
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| posted on 3/10/11 at 01:57 PM |
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The more I think about it a full transplant from a 328 thats had a bump or rotted away into a gt6 makes perfect sense.
They come apart easlily, reliable, powerful, cheap parts etc etc. I could even fit all the donor's electrics and keep cruise control
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