Motor Factors - Waranty Responsibility
jamesbond007ltk - 21/9/12 at 09:36 AM
A question for the collective. Very interested to hear your views on this and to receive any suggestions on how best to proceed. Bit of a long story,
but I'll give you the curtailed version:
About a month and a half ago I bought an SKF timing belt kit for my tintop (2001 1.6 Zetec-SE Focus), from a well regarded regional motor factor.
Fitted it with the correct alignment tools etc. etc., no problems with removing or replacing parts etc.
After 86 miles I noticed a whining noise from under the bonnet. Fortunately I was in a small village so was able to pull over almost immediately and
switch off. Opened the bonnet, started the engine again and confirmed the noise was coming from the timing belt cover, so I switched off again and
called the RAC.
Described the symptoms to the RAC guy and he said he wasn't going to even start it to prevent any damage, so recovered the car home (complete
with me and SWMBO - who was not amused by this point, given our night out was rather different from that planned!!)
This was fairly late Saturday night but needed the car first thing Sunday so set to work diagnosing and hopefully fixing the problem. It soon became
apparent that the timing belt was far from at the correct tension, it was very loose. There had been no awful noises from under the bonnet so I was
still hopeful there was no permanent damage. The only obvious sign of a fault was that the tesnioner bearing had shed its grease:
[img]
Focus_Tensioner
[/img]
I still had the Ford belt and tensioner, but to save having to undo the crankshaft pulley bolt I left the SKF belt on and replaced the tensioner only.
Put it all back together, fired it up and all was fine.
I should point out that although the Ford tensioner was manual set, the replacement part was in fact an automatic tensioner.
On the Monday I spoke to the factor and explained what had happened. They said they could provide me with a replacement kit but that I would have to
pay for it in lieu of receiving a refund once SKF had acknowledged the fault. Left with little choice I bought a second kit, removed every part of the
old kit (as per SKF's claim requirements; 3xbolt, 1x belt & 1xtensioner) and fitted the new kit.
SKFs claim procedure involves return of the full kit for examination and filling out one of two forms; one for parts cost only and one for parts and
labour. Being that I fitted it myself and they require receipted expense I was a bit stuck on the labour part, despite having now done the job 2.5
times in as many weeks.
Since then (about a month ago now) I have not heard once from the motor factor and it has been necessary for me to call them, only to be told “we
haven’t heard anything yet” on a weekly basis. That was until yesterday. I have now been told that because SKFs paperwork states that their kits are
to be fitted by “automotive professionals using the correct tools” I have no claim. Can they really get out that easily? OK so I don’t get paid to
work on vehicles but have been doing so for many years and would consider myself competent. The factor just keep saying it is between me and SKF and
that they are just a third party. Surely my contract, as a customer, is with the factor and not SKF?
I previously had discussions with the factor about the labour costs and they agreed it was not fair that I got nothing as I had spent a significant
amount of time having to redo the job. There was mention of some good prices on parts for my Locost, or some sort of gestures of goodwill. However,
they are now being less than helpful and keep bringing up the whole “third party” argument.
So, where do I stand? I am out of pocket for one timing belt kit at the very least, let alone my time. Can the factors just palm me off on to SKF and
can SKF hide behind the "automotive professionals using the correct tools” ; which incidentally is written on the instructions so you are only
made aware after purchasing and opening the kit.
Sorry for the long post. Thanks in advance
Rich
mookaloid - 21/9/12 at 09:58 AM
Is there a terms and conditions of sale shown on the back of the receipt possibly? this would detail what the factor thinks is the situation. You
could then take these to CAB or a solicitor to see if they would be considered reasonable in court and if not then small claims court.
scudderfish - 21/9/12 at 10:03 AM
The factor is at fault. Your transaction was with him, not SKF. If something you buy fails within 6 months it is assumed to have been defective at
the point of sale and should be replaced. It is up to the MF to chase up any money owed to him for the replacement from SKF.
Get in touch with your local citizens advice bureau or trading standards office.
flibble - 21/9/12 at 10:21 AM
quote:
The factor is at fault. Your transaction was with him, not SKF.
That's what I thought, I remember having the same problem with Dixons, new DVD player didn't work, took it back - "sorry mate,
you'll have to take that up with panasonic" etc, Stuck to my gun's with the point of sale etc and got a replacement in the end, took a
while though!
ceebmoj - 21/9/12 at 10:42 AM
Remember that your time has a value. You can write your self a receipt for the work you carried out. You do not need to be tax or Vat registered you
also do not need to be a company.
Jon Ison - 21/9/12 at 11:28 AM
quote:
Originally posted by scudderfish
The factor is at fault. Your transaction was with him, not SKF. If something you buy fails within 6 months it is assumed to have been defective at
the point of sale and should be replaced. It is up to the MF to chase up any money owed to him for the replacement from SKF.
Get in touch with your local citizens advice bureau or trading standards office.
^^^^^
This.
As a retailer ourselves I can 100% assure you your contract is with them not the manufacturer.
marcjagman - 21/9/12 at 01:07 PM
If it is clearly stated that it must be fitted a proffessional (garage) on the packaging/instructions then you have no chance. If it is stated that a
trade must fit it then you have a valid claim. If you read the small print though it probably state something along the lines of get a pro to fit or
warranty is void.
jamesbond007ltk - 21/9/12 at 01:44 PM
Thanks for replying and good point. I will check the paperwork when I get home tonight.
quote:
Originally posted by mookaloid
Is there a terms and conditions of sale shown on the back of the receipt possibly? this would detail what the factor thinks is the situation. You
could then take these to CAB or a solicitor to see if they would be considered reasonable in court and if not then small claims court.
jamesbond007ltk - 21/9/12 at 01:47 PM
quote:
Originally posted by scudderfish
The factor is at fault. Your transaction was with him, not SKF. If something you buy fails within 6 months it is assumed to have been defective at
the point of sale and should be replaced. It is up to the MF to chase up any money owed to him for the replacement from SKF.
Get in touch with your local citizens advice bureau or trading standards office.
I am pleased to see a few replies along these lines, or in agreement with this. This is the basis that i am working on so it is reassuring to see the
opinion shared. To me the statutory rights apply accross the board, whether the product is domestic white goods, car parts, or even a complete car.
jamesbond007ltk - 21/9/12 at 01:59 PM
quote:
Originally posted by marcjagman
If it is clearly stated that it must be fitted a proffessional (garage) on the packaging/instructions then you have no chance. If it is stated that a
trade must fit it then you have a valid claim. If you read the small print though it probably state something along the lines of get a pro to fit or
warranty is void.
Thanks, but what is the basis for this? Just because a company has written some clauses into their warranty documents or fitting instructions,
doesn't mean they can bypass any legal requirements (sale of goods act for example)?
I think the wording is along the lines that the kits are intended to be fitted by an automotive professional using the correct tools. It then goes on
to say that warranty claims are invalid is the former is not the case. I would hardly consider mine to be a warranye claim per se, as it was reported
to them within days of the purchase, more so that I am rejecting faulty goods.
jamesbond007ltk - 21/9/12 at 02:09 PM
To add to my first set of questions and queries:
What would or could a professional have done differently? How easy can it be to "break" a timing belt tensioner? OK, so a hit with a hammer
in the right place, over torquing bolts, releasing the tension prior to fitting the belt etc. are all possibilities to do damage, so perhaps not the
best way of asking the question.
Let's be honest though, how hard can it be to fit one? It is not as simple as changing an oil filter, but nor is it something that requires much
by way of expertise.
If we ignore the Sale of Goods Act for a moment and consider just the wording of the instructions. Surely SKF would need to show that fitting was the
causing factor?
Ninehigh - 21/9/12 at 02:16 PM
quote:
Originally posted by jamesbond007ltk
Surely SKF would need to show that fitting was the causing factor?
Good point, it's looking to me like it would come down to proving the unit was faulty and not the fitter
jamesbond007ltk - 21/9/12 at 02:39 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
quote:
Originally posted by jamesbond007ltk
Surely SKF would need to show that fitting was the causing factor?
Good point, it's looking to me like it would come down to proving the unit was faulty and not the fitter
The problem i am now facing is that I no longer have the unit as the complete kit has been sent off to SKF for examination. I do, however, have
photographs of all components, including the "greasy" tensioner (as above). IDeally an independant examination would take place, but to me
that would be a step too far for the sake of one timing belt kit. It is not as if I am claiming the faulty kit caused bent valves, cracked pistons
etc. etc.
The way it is looking at the moment is that SKF will not be honouring my claim whether or not they deem the parts to be faulty, on the basis that I am
not an automotive professional.
scudderfish - 21/9/12 at 03:40 PM
quote:
The way it is looking at the moment is that SKF will not be honouring my claim whether or not they deem the parts to be faulty, on the basis
that I am not an automotive professional.
Stop talking to SKF, this has nothing to do with them, you have no claim against them. Only the MF is at fault here and the presumption must be that
the item he sold you was defective at the time it was sold. Write to him that if you don't receive a full refund within 14 calendar days
you'll be issuing proceedings in small claims court. He's trying to wriggle out of his responsibilities and getting you to run around.
jamesbond007ltk - 21/9/12 at 03:45 PM
An update:
At 1520hrs today I phoned the head office of the Factor the get their take on it and to try move things on a bit. To be honest I got off the phone
expecting very little as the guy I spoke to appeared to be paying me lip service.
However, at 1550hrs I got a call from the branch tellng me that SKF had called them this morning and agreed to the refund but would accept no
liability for the cost of my time. Funny how they didn't call me isn't it?
I asked out of interest what SKF had said was wrong with the kit but was told that they had not examined it but were happy to offer the refund as a
"gesture of goodwill"; an expression that in my mind is all very well in the right circumstances but one that I find very annoying in
situations such as this.
Anyway, I have my out of pocket expenses back and will just have to savour the memory of changing a timing belt three times in as many weeks. Thanks
all for your help and advice once again.
Rich
jamesbond007ltk - 21/9/12 at 03:50 PM
quote:
Originally posted by scudderfish
quote:
The way it is looking at the moment is that SKF will not be honouring my claim whether or not they deem the parts to be faulty, on the basis
that I am not an automotive professional.
Stop talking to SKF, this has nothing to do with them, you have no claim against them. Only the MF is at fault here and the presumption must be that
the item he sold you was defective at the time it was sold. Write to him that if you don't receive a full refund within 14 calendar days
you'll be issuing proceedings in small claims court. He's trying to wriggle out of his responsibilities and getting you to run around.
Sorry, bit of a missunderstanding. I am have not been talking to SKF, I was just passing on the information that the factors have told me has come
from SKF.
Thanks
Rich
scudderfish - 21/9/12 at 03:58 PM
quote:
Originally posted by jamesbond007ltk
quote:
Originally posted by scudderfish
quote:
The way it is looking at the moment is that SKF will not be honouring my claim whether or not they deem the parts to be faulty, on the basis
that I am not an automotive professional.
Stop talking to SKF, this has nothing to do with them, you have no claim against them. Only the MF is at fault here and the presumption must be that
the item he sold you was defective at the time it was sold. Write to him that if you don't receive a full refund within 14 calendar days
you'll be issuing proceedings in small claims court. He's trying to wriggle out of his responsibilities and getting you to run around.
Sorry, bit of a missunderstanding. I am have not been talking to SKF, I was just passing on the information that the factors have told me has come
from SKF.
Thanks
Rich
OK, but that's his problem, not yours 
marcjagman - 21/9/12 at 04:26 PM
quote:
Originally posted by jamesbond007ltk
quote:
Originally posted by marcjagman
If it is clearly stated that it must be fitted a proffessional (garage) on the packaging/instructions then you have no chance. If it is stated that a
trade must fit it then you have a valid claim. If you read the small print though it probably state something along the lines of get a pro to fit or
warranty is void.
Thanks, but what is the basis for this? Just because a company has written some clauses into their warranty documents or fitting instructions,
doesn't mean they can bypass any legal requirements (sale of goods act for example)?
If you have bought it then under the sale of goods act you have accepted the terms and conditions laid down by the manufacturuer.
I think the wording is along the lines that the kits are intended to be fitted by an automotive professional using the correct tools. It then goes on
to say that warranty claims are invalid is the former is not the case. I would hardly consider mine to be a warranye claim per se, as it was reported
to them within days of the purchase, more so that I am rejecting faulty goods.
It doesn't matter what a garage may have done differently, if anything, but as they are classed as proffessionals they are deemed as competant
whereas your not, even if you have been in the mottor trade fer all your life.
PSpirine - 21/9/12 at 04:50 PM
You return to the factor who refunds you or exchanges due to faulty goods. It's then up to him to claim warranty against SKF.
That's how it works with any car/part. Dealer sorts you out, then claims it off the manufacturer.
I'd be giving them a right bollocking. P.S. you can totally claim back reasonable "labour" costs from them as well. (Just like a dealer
will claim back labour against the manufacturer when replacing failed parts)
britishtrident - 21/9/12 at 06:29 PM
I am really getting pee'd off with the number of replacement parts that just aren't up to the job I have posted before about suspension
parts (wishbones, track rod ends, bushes and ARB links) that were lasting less than a year. My latest was a KYB brand rear shocker that was
completely knackered after 10,00 miles.
[Edited on 21/9/12 by britishtrident]
macc man - 21/9/12 at 08:15 PM
I replaced a strut on my old Capri and 2 months later it failed its MOT on excessive play in the strut. I went back to the motor Factor who changed it
without question. A lot depends on the place you go to and if they value your custom. Bad press is no good for any Business so usually they will
repalce without a fuss. I would try pointing out that you would be unlikely to go back to them and advise others not to if you do not get any redress.
Usually does the trick.
