Originally posted by tul214
What do you suggest I buy then to pull 2 horses + box out of a muddy show field?
Morning All,
Myself and the brunette both love the look of a Landrover Defender. I'm about to move away from a Co Car so it presents a potential opportunity
to give proper 4x4 ownership a go.
The side-benefit is that I'll have something to tow the racecar.
Now truth be told, I don't see myself doing much offroading; I confess it's an image thing as much as anything.
I don't want to spend 5-figures, in fact much less would be better. But, can I get something really smart and reliable for sensible money? What
are the pitfalls?
I really like the look of this on Pistonheads.
What do you think?
I have never had one but did test drive a few. (we ended up buying a D3!)
From what I saw at that price, it is a bargain.
quote:
Originally posted by TimC
Now truth be told, I don't see myself doing much offroading; I confess it's an image thing as much as anything.
What do you think?
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
You want to look like a C***?!?
[Edited on 18/1/12 by loggyboy]
Just my opinion on 4x4s that are bought as status symbols!
Havent had a Land Rover but used to drive a jeep was good fun for the first 6 months but soon got sick of having my teeth shaken out on even the
shortest journey, cr@p handling, cr@p, fuel consumption, no security (just had to pop the soft top to nick gear) and generally feeling like I was
driving 1940's technology and this was after I'd uprated suspension/shocks. In the end the missus wouldnt even get in it.
When the sun came out and you removed the ragtop it was brill but usually as soon as you started taking the top off you could see the clouds coming
over and it took half an hour the put the bleeding thing back on.
But I did have bazzing fun offroading in it at weekends, but if your not offroading and have no intention of doing so I honestly cant see the
point.
Cheers,
Bob
TimC, I had a 200tdi Defender truck bodied and it was a fun vehicle, good for towing as well. My only criticism of Defenders, and you'll find out whether this affects you by sitting in one, is that you may get annoyed with your right arm being so close to the door and window and then your left arm having to reach out a mile to change gear. A foible of the original design as it were. Being before ecu's it will still be nice and simple, no unitized injectors to fail and break the bank with. If you fit in it and feel comfortable you will enjoy it.
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
Just my opinion on 4x4s that are bought as status symbols!
quote:
Originally posted by tul214
What do you suggest I buy then to pull 2 horses + box out of a muddy show field?
Why?
Geez - you have one cuz you need one, where as im stating that i find it laughable that people by them for status symbols without acctually using them for their intended purpose.
Toyota Hilux crew cab or Landcruiser.
Thousands of terrorists, minority armies, african militia, NATO and UN can't be wrong. 
Cheers,
Nev.
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
Geez - you have one cuz you need one, where as im stating that i find it laughable that people by them for status symbols without acctually using them for their intended purpose.
Sweeping as in saying that people that buy 4x4s for status symbols are c***s. Not that sweeping, id say its a fairly recognised in public opinion.
'Chelsea Tractors' and all that.
[Edited on 18/1/12 by loggyboy]
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
Sweeping as in saying that people that buy 4x4s for status symbols are c***s. Not that sweeping, id say its a fairly recognised in public opinion. 'Chelsea Tractors' and all that.
[Edited on 18/1/12 by loggyboy]
My mates TD5 90 on mt tyres used to do 30mpg....
If a 4x4 is a status symbol, whats a Lotus 7 type car by the way ?
Loads of good London charge victims kicking about, Im seriously considering buying one so I can join you looking like Loggy suggests.
My last 4x4 was a Lada Niva, (Ukrainian tractor) I bought this purely as a Chelsea tractor/status thing - Cravat, Plus4s and a tweed
moustache...current one is a Freelander van, rigger boots, Snickers jacket and 40mpg.
90 TD5 in the planning stage.
But if you buy a 100k ferrari and only use it to tootle back and forwards to work or shops you are definately a c***! more so than the Cheltrac owners!
defenders are great vehicles but you do need a constant supply of money with them. before you buy check bulkhead for rust and oil in the loom. and
also be prepared for a loud and fairly harsh ride. but this vehicle will do everything you want it to.
Bla bla bla.
Back on track.
Defenders are rubbish to drive. I have the opportunity to drive brand new ones and even those are appalling. If you're going to do some
off-roading, they are fab and a lot of fun. However, they are crap on most roads, and have a HORRENDOUS turning circle.
If you think you may ever decide you want to have some fun green-laning etc. then you could always give one a try. 80s-90s defenders seem to have
stopped depreciating if kept in decent nick so you won't lose much if you run one for a year. They're fairly reliable in the sense that
they'll usually get you where you're going, but bits WILL stop working and there will constantly be small things to fix.
I'd have a think about what it is you want from it as a car.. There are other cars to look "cool" in (perfectly valid reason for a
purchase if that's what you want) which are much better to drive..
bla bla bla?
i just basicly said the same as you have!
quote:
Originally posted by michael kitching
bla bla bla?
i just basicly said the same as you have!
Look for obvious damange on the chassis esp the central crossmember under the gearbox, this takes abuse offroad.
RUST on Chassis and out riggers, Rear crossmember,
Check Bushes where axle ties to chassis
Front Axle spring mounts on Axle rust badly
Bulkhead just at the corner below the windscreen and down the A pilar.
Dents on the front wings just in front of wheel arch show it has been offroad
Biggest thing is go over the chassis very carefully. every thing else on them is not to bad.
If shouldn;t "wander" to much on the road if it does check backlash on steering
Check the drop arm out of the steering box these fail due to lack of grease/maint . Cheap fix if you catch it before it fails completly.
Sorry bla bla bla was in reference to the off-topic chat about chelsea tractor images etc. Whilst I agree with it, it's completely irrelevant to
the OP!
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:
Originally posted by michael kitching
bla bla bla?
i just basicly said the same as you have!
I think he was bla-ing at me!
A Toyota Landcruiser or Hi Lux will give you years of comfort and reliability with comfort. I grew up on a diet of Landrovers, but the Landcruiser
decimated the Landrover market for a reason. I worked in the oilfield in the Mid East for 7 years and the Landcruiser Pickup was the workhorse.
Rugged, reliable and extremely capable, it's also comfortable. I almost bought a Discovery a few years back, but after much research, ended up
with a 12v 80 Series Landcruiser. It'll legally tow up to 3.5 tonnes with ease, and seven years later I'm still driving a 22 year old car
that looks and drives like a car under ten years old.
It's thirsty though, but the 24v is slightly better. The Hi Lux is probably more fuel efficient. Do some research and don't rush your
decision.
Good Luck!
quote:
Originally posted by PSpirine
Sorry bla bla bla was in reference to the off-topic chat about chelsea tractor images etc. Whilst I agree with it, it's completely irrelevant to the OP!
Check the chassis, out riggers and rear floor for rust.
Steering boxes have been kown to leak oil. Not difficult to replace. Also often don't get the play adjusted (easy to do)
Check the steering damper. Ball joints on them tend to wear.
Los of nice goodies available for them. Don't forget to aquire thick skin to protect from the "I hate Chelsea tractors" brigade.
No issue with rust on the rear floor on a defender as they are aluminum
But do check the chassis for rust, check with a hammer and a screwdriver, if the owner wont let you walk away as they have something to hide, check
the bulkhead as they are hard to repair and costly
They are great fun to drive if you dont want to get anywhere in a hurry, i love mine and am doing a full ground up rebuild.
They are great vehicles to work on, so simple.
Ive got a few photos of mine in my photo archive
There are plenty of more capable, more reliable, more economical 4 x4's. For £6k you can get alot of a Discovery (or many other makes) that will
be more usable, more reliable and more economical.
You have really got to "want" a defender to own one. It's got to be a purchase of the heart not the head they are sooo expensive for
what you get. My lad is big into shooting and he wants one but can't justify it. £6k for a 25 year old car 
And who cares if people think you're a c__k. Plenty around on the roads these days.
If you're happy stuff em.
One thing to remember is that defenders hold their value, you could buy that for 6K and drive it for 5 years and sell it for 5.5k - 6k.
No other normal cars that i can think of hold their value like a defender
Most things have been pointed out but I'll add a couple of points.
Apart fro your arm being so close to the door you may find the seating position far too
upright and very close to the steering wheel on early Defenders. I've removed the bulkhead
behind the seats on mine and it transforms it. Stick a couple on nice seats (Micra fit well) and
it's actually a comfy place to be 
You'll need to brace the tub to recover the strength but there
are aftermarket bars for the job or make one.
The one on PH certainly looks nice BUT...... check insurance first as it's a modified vehicle. The
200Tdi wasn't fitted till 1992/3 at the same time the name Defender was introduced.
That said, mine is insured through Flux with all mods, winch, suspension, engine and upgraded
intercooler etc for a couple hundred quid.
Bloody awful drive if you ask me.
I would have thought a RAV 4 or Vitara would have been more up your street?
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:
Originally posted by TimC
Now truth be told, I don't see myself doing much offroading; I confess it's an image thing as much as anything.
What do you think?
You want to look like a C***?!?
[Edited on 18/1/12 by loggyboy]
quote:
Originally posted by Irony
Yes they have their problems but for sheer charm and toughness nothing competes. The only cars I know that when dented or damaged the character of the vehicle increases.
quote:
Originally posted by TimC
Now truth be told, I don't see myself doing much offroading; I confess it's an image thing as much as anything.
"There is nothing in the same price bracket as the defender that will legally and successfully tow 3.5 tonnes."
I'd disagree with that. The Landcruiser tows 3.5 tonnes with ease. New ones are pricey, but a decent 80 Series can be had for around £4000.
NTDWM but look TOYOTA LANDCRUISER 4.2 TD VX AMAZON 80 SERIES ,LOW MILEAGE,LEATHER,DIFF LOCKS | eBay
Probably heavier on fuel though!
quote:
Originally posted by Ian Pearson
"There is nothing in the same price bracket as the defender that will legally and successfully tow 3.5 tonnes."
I'd disagree with that. The Landcruiser tows 3.5 tonnes with ease. New ones are pricey, but a decent 80 Series can be had for around £4000.
NTDWM but look TOYOTA LANDCRUISER 4.2 TD VX AMAZON 80 SERIES ,LOW MILEAGE,LEATHER,DIFF LOCKS | eBay
Probably heavier on fuel though!
I bought a TD5 90 last September and I love it! Sure it's very truck-like to drive but that is part of the appeal. I do get 30mpg on mud tyres
though which is better than my previous Mitsubishi. Mine has a great spec including a leather interior and is amost like new everywhere despite it
being a 1999.
Condition is everything when you look to buy though, particularly the chassis. Try to find one with a galvanized chassis if possible if buying an
older vehicle. The price will be high for good condition but the residual is great. They tow like a dream too. If you do buy one get good anti-theft
gear installed including a Disc-Lok, they are hugely desirable vehicles and not the hardest to break in to.
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
But if you buy a 100k ferrari and only use it to tootle back and forwards to work or shops you are definately a c***! more so than the Cheltrac owners!
quote:
Originally posted by T66
Your on a roll, anyone else you dont like ?
Tim, back to the original post......it looks good, you will find it uncomfortable and agricultural....better as advised previously buy a
landcruiser....the best 4x4 in the WORLD.....or alternatively my Disco Td5...best price for you, my old son.....
Or as Fesy suggested...you might look better in a Vitara......
I love my Landy, and as a 1961 SWB S11 it is neither comfy or economical but it is and was great fun to buy, rebuild and drive. It doesn't have
to be expensive and most jobs are easier in the huge engine bay or infact when you can sit under it to fix something, rather than having to lay
underneath at a jaunty angle.
Chassis rust in the rear crossmember is a nightmare, and also in the front out riggers, but £20 and some welding and a new outrigger can be fitted.
Bulkhead is another issue, and at 30 years old mine was shot, the new one, painted properly has lasted 20 years sofar!
In conclusion it's a passion not a car.
If I had to have a capable tow car, I'd have any of the LR stable of products, and or any of the Japanese equivalents as they are all good-ish.
But only the Landy will get a wave from other Landy owners, and only the Landy will make you grin when all the passengers have had enough noise fumes
and heat.
hth
Buy one - they're great and just to prove it - here's mine
Description
Of all my vehicles, cars, van, bikes, the 90 would be the last to go should I hit hard times.