stevegough
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 posted on 28/5/11 at 09:32 PM |
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Very weak charging
Having a problem with charging - just changed the engine, back on the road for a couple of days, and the battery went flat 15 miles from home.
Breakdown brought me back, charged the battery with charger overnight, charged up fine ( battery is Bosch, less than a year old). Started up fine, but
charge warning light is glowing dimly. Tightened aux belt, still the same replaced alternator with one off the new engine (I had used my old
alternator which worked fine before the engine blew). Exactly the same result - lamp glows but not at full brightness.
Any ideas guys (and gals!)?
Luego Locost C20XE.
Build start: October 6th 2008.
IVA passed Jan 28th 2011.
First drive Feb 10th 2011.
First show: Stoneleigh 1st/2nd May 2011.
'Used up' first engine may 3rd 2011!
Back on the road with 2nd engine may 24th
First PASA mad drive 26/7/11
Sold to Mike in Methyr Tydvil 19/03/14
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 28/5/11 at 09:53 PM |
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Earthing problem? Loose nut on power cable for alternator?
Ben
Locost Map on Google Maps
Z20LET Astra Turbo, into a Haynes
Roadster
Enter Your Details Here
http://www.facebook.com/EquinoxProducts for all your bodywork needs!
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RichardK
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| posted on 28/5/11 at 10:16 PM |
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Coincidence and the alt is shagged, did you have to wire in an additional bulb to make the charge light go off if it happens to be an led? Maybe that
bulbs blown??
The alt wont be charging the battery if that lamps on mate.
Just a couple of ideas to try.
Cheers
Rich
[Edited on 28/5/11 by RichardK]
Gallery updated 11/01/2011
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BaileyPerformance
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| posted on 28/5/11 at 10:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by stevegough
Having a problem with charging - just changed the engine, back on the road for a couple of days, and the battery went flat 15 miles from home.
Breakdown brought me back, charged the battery with charger overnight, charged up fine ( battery is Bosch, less than a year old). Started up fine, but
charge warning light is glowing dimly. Tightened aux belt, still the same replaced alternator with one off the new engine (I had used my old
alternator which worked fine before the engine blew). Exactly the same result - lamp glows but not at full brightness.
Any ideas guys (and gals!)?
Hi,
I would suggest its the live wire from the battery (or back of starter) to the alternator, remove an clean the crimps, chk the actual crimps for signs
of erosion.
Is it a standard 2 wire alternator? or does it have a extra wire? (like the jap ones)
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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spiderman
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| posted on 28/5/11 at 11:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by RichardK
Coincidence and the alt is shagged, did you have to wire in an additional bulb to make the charge light go off if it happens to be an led? Maybe that
bulbs blown??
The alt wont be charging the battery if that lamps on mate.
Just a couple of ideas to try.
Cheers
Rich
[Edited on 28/5/11 by RichardK]
What are you talking about? If the bulb is glowing dimly then it is not blown, why would you wire in an additional bulb to make the one he has go out?
If he has replaced the the ign light bulb with an led then he would require a resistor in series to excite the alternater windings, but as he has
changed the engine not the charge light I assume it was charging before and as he has changed the alternator for a known good one I have my doubts
that both alternators are unservicable. I think he has already worked out that his battery is not being charged by the fact that it keeps going
flat.
Check charge from alternator at the terminal, with a volt meter should be 13.5 volts-14.5 volts if you have charging voltage at the alternator then
you have a bad connection, either in the wire to battery, to the ign light or a bad earth connection. Check the connections you have removed, clean
them and re connect. Is the engine earthed to the chassis?
Most electrical problems on cars are a bad earth connection.If you have done all of these things then the only other problem I can think of is the
you have trapped a wire whist changing the engine and have damaged it internally. If you suspect that is the problem then just run a temporary cable
in parallel to the suspect cable.
If you do not know how to do these checks Steve send me a u2u and I will reply with my phone number and talk you through it.
Spider
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stevegough
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| posted on 29/5/11 at 06:48 AM |
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Thanks for all the info, I had pretty much come to the conclusion that the alternator was ok, and that it was a bad connection somewhere. However, I
wondered if there was something obvious I was missing elsewhere.
As 'spiderman' has said, I don't need to put a second bulb in (I'm using 'bright 6' and the charging was fine
before the engine swap.
On the first start up with the new engine, the charging light was on full initially, then after a few mins running, it dimmed down - I put it down to
the battery being quite discharged through the fortnight's lay - up.
I will run through the testing sequence (I have already partly done this - but it isn't easy - access is a bit tight - see the pic!)
 
Description
I'll let you know what the problem was - when [ and if!] I find it.
Luego Locost C20XE.
Build start: October 6th 2008.
IVA passed Jan 28th 2011.
First drive Feb 10th 2011.
First show: Stoneleigh 1st/2nd May 2011.
'Used up' first engine may 3rd 2011!
Back on the road with 2nd engine may 24th
First PASA mad drive 26/7/11
Sold to Mike in Methyr Tydvil 19/03/14
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02GF74
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| posted on 29/5/11 at 07:34 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by stevegough
As 'spiderman' has said, I don't need to put a second bulb in (I'm using 'bright 6' and the charging was fine
before the engine swap.
I wouldn 't discount that as it ias a very simple test. Unless someone corrects me, BRIGHT 6 use LEDs so if a LED with drop
resistor is used instead of a charge light lamp (i.e. filament bulb), it will supply 1/10 of the current a filament bulb would supply. I have home
made LED lamp with a ressitor in parallel to increase the current tyhat is needed to self-excite the alternator.. Disconnect your charge lamp and
using a wire connect to 12 V via a small bulb the alternator and run engine. It is a 5 min test.
On the first start up with the new engine, the charging light was on full initially, then after a few mins running, it dimmed down - I put it down to
the battery being quite discharged through the fortnight's lay - up.
^^^ Strange .... alternator earthing is done via the body - check that there is clean metal between it and bracket and engine (scrape
any paint off), then check earth strap from engine to battery. If you have jump lead, then clip on to battery earth and alternator body/bracket and
give engine a whizz. That too is a 5 min test.
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adithorp
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| posted on 29/5/11 at 07:56 AM |
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Check all the earths and alternator cables for loose/poor connections and for any trapped wires. Put a volt meter accross the battery then try a jump
lead between the battery -ve and alternator body as a quick check for main earth.
It is worth trying a test lamp from charge light connector (disconnect the existing wire) to +ve and then start and check charging to check that
circuit is exciting the coils as if the problem is a trapped or poor connection it could have been OK when you first re-started but then failed.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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v8kid
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| posted on 29/5/11 at 08:01 AM |
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I'll put my 10p on a shagged battery. What odds are you guys offering? 
Cheers!
You'd be surprised how quickly the sales people at B&Q try and assist you after ignoring you for the past 15 minutes when you try and start a
chainsaw
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stevegough
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| posted on 29/5/11 at 08:07 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
quote:
Originally posted by stevegough
As 'spiderman' has said, I don't need to put a second bulb in (I'm using 'bright 6' and the charging was fine
before the engine swap.
I wouldn 't discount that as it ias a very simple test. Unless someone corrects me, BRIGHT 6 use LEDs so if a LED with drop
resistor is used instead of a charge light lamp (i.e. filament bulb), it will supply 1/10 of the current a filament bulb would supply. I have home
made LED lamp with a ressitor in parallel to increase the current tyhat is needed to self-excite the alternator.. Disconnect your charge lamp and
using a wire connect to 12 V via a small bulb the alternator and run engine. It is a 5 min test.
thanks for that, I see your point, but to get to the bright 6 wiring, I first have to unbolt and remove the dash - that takes about an
hour! - And as I've said previously, it was working before I changed the engine, so I don't think messing with the charge-feed / indicator
lamp is necessary.....yet! Instead, could I run a wire (tempoarily) straight from battery to the exite terminal on the Alt?
On the first start up with the new engine, the charging light was on full initially, then after a few mins running, it dimmed down - I put it down to
the battery being quite discharged through the fortnight's lay - up.
^^^ Strange .... alternator earthing is done via the body - check that there is clean metal between it and bracket and engine (scrape
any paint off), then check earth strap from engine to battery. If you have jump lead, then clip on to battery earth and alternator body/bracket and
give engine a whizz. That too is a 5 min test.
I have already replaced the alt, cleaning up the earthing cable on the bracket (earths alt to block) and the block earth must be ok as the
startermotor works fine.....but...it is an easy test, as you say....when I've shed my two grandkids I'm babysitting this morning,
I'll get to it!
Luego Locost C20XE.
Build start: October 6th 2008.
IVA passed Jan 28th 2011.
First drive Feb 10th 2011.
First show: Stoneleigh 1st/2nd May 2011.
'Used up' first engine may 3rd 2011!
Back on the road with 2nd engine may 24th
First PASA mad drive 26/7/11
Sold to Mike in Methyr Tydvil 19/03/14
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 29/5/11 at 08:10 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by v8kid
I'll put my 10p on a shagged battery. What odds are you guys offering?
Cheers!
No power supply to armature, but only 5p.
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stevegough
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| posted on 29/5/11 at 08:12 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by v8kid
I'll put my 10p on a shagged battery. What odds are you guys offering?
Cheers!
What odds are you offering on your 10p? If its the battery, I'll eat it!--its almost brand new. Still, its not unknown to happen.
Luego Locost C20XE.
Build start: October 6th 2008.
IVA passed Jan 28th 2011.
First drive Feb 10th 2011.
First show: Stoneleigh 1st/2nd May 2011.
'Used up' first engine may 3rd 2011!
Back on the road with 2nd engine may 24th
First PASA mad drive 26/7/11
Sold to Mike in Methyr Tydvil 19/03/14
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stevegough
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| posted on 29/5/11 at 08:16 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
Check all the earths and alternator cables for loose/poor connections and for any trapped wires. Put a volt meter accross the battery then try a jump
lead between the battery -ve and alternator body as a quick check for main earth.
It is worth trying a test lamp from charge light connector (disconnect the existing wire) to +ve and then start and check charging to check that
circuit is exciting the coils as if the problem is a trapped or poor connection it could have been OK when you first re-started but then failed.
Cheers, Adrian - The battery was 13.65v with the engine off, yesterday - will test further this morning when the brats have gone home!!
Luego Locost C20XE.
Build start: October 6th 2008.
IVA passed Jan 28th 2011.
First drive Feb 10th 2011.
First show: Stoneleigh 1st/2nd May 2011.
'Used up' first engine may 3rd 2011!
Back on the road with 2nd engine may 24th
First PASA mad drive 26/7/11
Sold to Mike in Methyr Tydvil 19/03/14
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stevegough
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| posted on 30/5/11 at 02:22 PM |
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right, I've just spent a couple of hours on it to no avail....
1: replaced the alternator with my own.
2: doubled up the Heavy duty +ve feed with one from battery to alt.
3: doubled up the exiter wire from a connection halfway along (not dismantled dash - YET).
4: bat voltage (13.45 engine off)
5: bat voltage (13.08 engine running) - bright 6 glowing slightly.
6: no change with any of the above extra wires in place.
7: checking feed to halfway point on the exiter wire is showing a possible problem:
..........with ign off, voltage at the feed is nil.
..........with ign on, is shows 6.5 volts, when you start the engine, this goes up to 13.0
..........is this showing a possible poor feed to the exiter for the electromagnets in the alt?
I am in the garage with my laptop, going to try and put a heavy duty earth directly alt body to battery now (as a few of you suggested). Then
I'm thinking of stripping the dash out to get at the bright 6 wiring.
Watch this space - more suggestions are very welcome
Luego Locost C20XE.
Build start: October 6th 2008.
IVA passed Jan 28th 2011.
First drive Feb 10th 2011.
First show: Stoneleigh 1st/2nd May 2011.
'Used up' first engine may 3rd 2011!
Back on the road with 2nd engine may 24th
First PASA mad drive 26/7/11
Sold to Mike in Methyr Tydvil 19/03/14
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v8kid
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| posted on 30/5/11 at 02:48 PM |
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Does that mean my 10p is at risk?
You'd be surprised how quickly the sales people at B&Q try and assist you after ignoring you for the past 15 minutes when you try and start a
chainsaw
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stevegough
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| posted on 30/5/11 at 03:01 PM |
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Fault finally located! All you guys who said earth fault on the alternator to engine - that's what it was!!!
I had cleaned the alt earthing wire, but reconnected it wrongly! DOH! This short red wire went from the top alt bracket to the manifold bolt. When I
changed the engine (and each time I changed the alt) I reconnected it to the washer above the insulated bush on the other end of the alt bracket - so
I was effectively earthing the inlet manifold to itself - He! He! what a plonker!
Seriously, lots of kudos to you guys for trying to help me, I didn't need an auto electrician - just a psychiatrist!
Cheers, and thanks to you all.
Luego Locost C20XE.
Build start: October 6th 2008.
IVA passed Jan 28th 2011.
First drive Feb 10th 2011.
First show: Stoneleigh 1st/2nd May 2011.
'Used up' first engine may 3rd 2011!
Back on the road with 2nd engine may 24th
First PASA mad drive 26/7/11
Sold to Mike in Methyr Tydvil 19/03/14
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 30/5/11 at 03:09 PM |
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Good Good, looks like i might visit next week after all lol
Ben
Locost Map on Google Maps
Z20LET Astra Turbo, into a Haynes
Roadster
Enter Your Details Here
http://www.facebook.com/EquinoxProducts for all your bodywork needs!
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stevegough
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| posted on 30/5/11 at 03:26 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben_Copeland
Good Good, looks like i might visit next week after all lol
Look forward to it (I'll send you a PM tonight regarding what shifts I'm on.)
Luego Locost C20XE.
Build start: October 6th 2008.
IVA passed Jan 28th 2011.
First drive Feb 10th 2011.
First show: Stoneleigh 1st/2nd May 2011.
'Used up' first engine may 3rd 2011!
Back on the road with 2nd engine may 24th
First PASA mad drive 26/7/11
Sold to Mike in Methyr Tydvil 19/03/14
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stevegough
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| posted on 30/5/11 at 03:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by v8kid
Does that mean my 10p is at risk?
You can send me your 10p whenever you want, Kiddo!
Luego Locost C20XE.
Build start: October 6th 2008.
IVA passed Jan 28th 2011.
First drive Feb 10th 2011.
First show: Stoneleigh 1st/2nd May 2011.
'Used up' first engine may 3rd 2011!
Back on the road with 2nd engine may 24th
First PASA mad drive 26/7/11
Sold to Mike in Methyr Tydvil 19/03/14
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v8kid
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| posted on 30/5/11 at 04:37 PM |
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Do you accept postal orders?
You'd be surprised how quickly the sales people at B&Q try and assist you after ignoring you for the past 15 minutes when you try and start a
chainsaw
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02GF74
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| posted on 30/5/11 at 06:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by stevegough
I had cleaned the alt earthing wire, but reconnected it wrongly! DOH! This short red wire went from the top alt bracket to the manifold bolt.
Can't say I understand that since alternators make the earth contact via the body so no need fo any extra wires .... but then I do not know
exactly whcih make/model you are using. Seem to recall it is Lucas - not come across Lucas alt needing separate earthing ut then I do n ot know
details of every model.
What you need is thick wire from battery earth to chassis. Then you need a thick wire from the engine/gearbox (I use bolt that holds engine to
gearbox housing near the starter motor) to the chassis, ideally to the same point as above.
Remember the starter motor curren t whcih can be several hundrad amps will want to flow through that circuit.
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stevegough
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| posted on 30/5/11 at 06:38 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
Can't say I understand that since alternators make the earth contact via the body so no need fo any extra wires .... but then I do not know
exactly whcih make/model you are using. Seem to recall it is Lucas - not come across Lucas alt needing separate earthing ut then I do not know
details of every model.
Now fixed, thanks - just put the standard Alternator earth cable back on the correct bolt. - And then went for a good 30-mile steady blat wiv the
missus in the sunshine.
The Alternator on my engine (and standard C20XE engines) bottom is mounted on large plastic and collars - the top mount with the slider adjuster is
solidly mounted, but the mount is fixed to the inlet manifold via a rubber collar - this ensures the whole unit is isolated electrically (I
don't know if that is the designed reason, or whether its to prevent shock / vibration damage). The unit is then earthed from the slider bolt to
the manifold - only I mistakenly put the alt end on the upper mounting bolt instead.
It has been a good exercise in noting exactly what goes where when I do a strip down - I've also learnt a few things about how an alt works.
One further good point has come from it for me - I've changed my breakdown cover from my ultra-reliable tin top to the kit. I've had
breakdown cover for 25 years and never used it!
Luego Locost C20XE.
Build start: October 6th 2008.
IVA passed Jan 28th 2011.
First drive Feb 10th 2011.
First show: Stoneleigh 1st/2nd May 2011.
'Used up' first engine may 3rd 2011!
Back on the road with 2nd engine may 24th
First PASA mad drive 26/7/11
Sold to Mike in Methyr Tydvil 19/03/14
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