gavin174
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| posted on 16/1/12 at 10:34 PM |
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swirl pot plumbing
Evening All
Getting ready to start plumbing up my fuel system
blacktop zetec with gsxr throttle bodies..
I would like to fit the low pressure pump, swirl pot, high pressure pump and regulator/return to tank in the boot area
as per the attached sketch...
would this work..
cheers Gavin
[Edited on 16/1/12 by gavin174]
http://www.essexkitcarclub.com
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 16/1/12 at 11:00 PM |
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One of the best mods I ever made was to ditch the low pressure pump, ditch the swirl pot and fit a in tank bike pump, less complicated, less to go
wrong and as been 100% reliable.
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gavin174
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| posted on 16/1/12 at 11:05 PM |
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i have looked at landrover pumps on ebay as they have an inbuilt swirlpot
not sure how they locate in the tank thou
http://www.essexkitcarclub.com
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 16/1/12 at 11:07 PM |
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That should work.
It is a dead head system (as pressure fuel doesn't flow back from fuel rail). Some people don't like dead head systems, I think the
disadvantages are that the fuel can get warm, and air wouldn't get cleared, but lots of OEMs use dead head (cars and bikes) so it can' t
be a major problem.
You need to be sure that both pumps can each supply the maximum fuel flow that you need otherwise the swirl will run dry.
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Chippy
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| posted on 16/1/12 at 11:30 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by gavin174
i have looked at landrover pumps on ebay as they have an inbuilt swirlpot
not sure how they locate in the tank thou
I have one fitted, and they are not straight foreword. I had to have a well built into the bottom of the tank, as they are quite deep. HTH Ray
To make a car go faster, just add lightness. Colin Chapman - OR - fit a bigger engine. Chippy
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gavin174
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| posted on 16/1/12 at 11:32 PM |
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what type of fixings are on the pump Ray
is it like the 6 bolt fixing...
or is it screw type
http://www.essexkitcarclub.com
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 17/1/12 at 02:06 AM |
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Fit a bike pump in the tank, it sits in it's own sump, no need for a return, I run track days on slicks, never have a fueling problem, did with
old set up, why over complicate it and build in more uneccasery parts to fail ? Your call.
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ashg
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| posted on 17/1/12 at 09:07 AM |
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dead head systems are crap for big power as the fuel pressure is fixed and non linear. you are way better off with a feed and return regulated by a
vacuum fed regulator.
Anything With Tits or Wheels Will cost you MONEY!!
Haynes Roadster (Finished)
Exocet (Finished & Sold)
New Project (Started)
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gavin174
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| posted on 17/1/12 at 10:03 AM |
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thanks all for your comments
"dead head systems are crap for big power as the fuel pressure is fixed and non linear. you are way better off with a feed and return
regulated by a vacuum fed regulator."
how would you suggest I do that ashg
http://www.essexkitcarclub.com
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Dusty
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| posted on 17/1/12 at 05:38 PM |
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'you are way better off with a feed and return regulated by a vacuum fed regulator.'
I don't understand. Surely the whole idea of aftermarket fuel injection is to let the map and electronics do all the work. Fitting a pump that
can maintain pressure and flow rate and injectors of the correct size allows you to map the fueling for all conditions. What can fitting a vacuum
operated variable fuel pressure add to that?
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Nitrogeno25
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| posted on 17/1/12 at 06:10 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Chippy
quote:
Originally posted by gavin174
i have looked at landrover pumps on ebay as they have an inbuilt swirlpot
not sure how they locate in the tank thou
I have one fitted, and they are not straight foreword. I had to have a well built into the bottom of the tank, as they are quite deep. HTH Ray
Do you have one of the cheap replacements? Do you know if the pump can be replaced at a later time with something like a walbro or bosch?
Many thanks.
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paulf
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| posted on 17/1/12 at 10:03 PM |
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It reduces the fuel pressure under idle and over run situations making it easier to map as I understand it, I have always had a vacuum controlled reg
but know some people seem to manage perfectly well with out.
Paul
quote:
Originally posted by Dusty
'you are way better off with a feed and return regulated by a vacuum fed regulator.'
I don't understand. Surely the whole idea of aftermarket fuel injection is to let the map and electronics do all the work. Fitting a pump that
can maintain pressure and flow rate and injectors of the correct size allows you to map the fueling for all conditions. What can fitting a vacuum
operated variable fuel pressure add to that?
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ashg
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| posted on 17/1/12 at 10:33 PM |
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as paul said it reduces the fuel pressure and brings it up as load increases. its not ideal to have 3bar of fuel at idle as it can be difficult to
get the pulse widths small enough for good idle when running injectors that are on the larger side.
when i went on my EMA course the did have some nice slides to explain the pros and cons of either system but i cant find them to save my life
Anything With Tits or Wheels Will cost you MONEY!!
Haynes Roadster (Finished)
Exocet (Finished & Sold)
New Project (Started)
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Chippy
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| posted on 17/1/12 at 11:06 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by gavin174
what type of fixings are on the pump Ray
is it like the 6 bolt fixing...
or is it screw type
Yes it has , if I remember correctly, six fixings on the top. The main problem with them is that although they are spring loaded, so can fit in
differing heights even when fully compressed they are still quite tall. If you want further information, I can do some measuring tomorrow. HTH Ray
To make a car go faster, just add lightness. Colin Chapman - OR - fit a bigger engine. Chippy
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Chippy
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| posted on 17/1/12 at 11:11 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Nitrogeno25
Do you have one of the cheap replacements? Do you know if the pump can be replaced at a later time with something like a walbro or bosch?
Many thanks.
The one that I fitted was the OEM pump, so replacement would be OEM should it ever be required. Cheers Ray
To make a car go faster, just add lightness. Colin Chapman - OR - fit a bigger engine. Chippy
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Chippy
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| posted on 18/1/12 at 12:11 PM |
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Here are a couple of pictures showing the top and the well in the tank. One thing that I foregot was that the pump comes without any means of fixing
it in, as on the L/Rover its held down by a threaded ring, so I had to make a holding down ring, and fit rivnuts into the tank top. HTH Ray
[img]
 
Top of pump
[/img]
[img]
 
Tank well
[/img]
[Edited on 18-1-12 by Chippy]
To make a car go faster, just add lightness. Colin Chapman - OR - fit a bigger engine. Chippy
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bi22le
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| posted on 18/1/12 at 01:08 PM |
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Do you fix it at the top of the tank and it sits all the way at the bottom? Bit confused.
I would like a swirl pot to as my car suffers at anything below about 1/4 tank, knighmare on track days.
I dont fancy modding my fuel tank though as I feel a swirl pot and a low pressure pump is cheaper even if it is more complicated.
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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Chippy
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| posted on 18/1/12 at 04:51 PM |
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The pump itself is a swirl pot with the pump located in it, the complete thing is supported on two S/Steel rods that are spring loaded. You drop the
pump unit into the tank, and then press down on the springs and fix the holding down ring. The depth required overall, is I think 10 inches to get
it to fit. As I said its not a simple job. I only did it this way as I was making up a new tank anyway. Cheers Ray
To make a car go faster, just add lightness. Colin Chapman - OR - fit a bigger engine. Chippy
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richard thomas
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| posted on 18/1/12 at 05:16 PM |
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My swirl pot is plumbed exactly as drawn....works perfectly and gives an extra litre of fuel capacity over and above my smallish tank.....
I should amend above....the return from fuel rail to pressure regulator is separate from the fuel rail inlet feed....I did indeed have issues with air
in the fuel rail but adding a return line from the rail sorted it....this was a Westfield Megabusa solution i learned....
[Edited on 18/1/12 by richard thomas]
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laptoprob
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| posted on 18/1/12 at 05:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by richard thomas
My swirl pot is plumbed exactly as drawn....works perfectly and gives an extra litre of fuel capacity over and above my smallish tank.....
I should amend above....the return from fuel rail to pressure regulator is separate from the fuel rail inlet feed....I did indeed have issues with air
in the fuel rail but adding a return line from the rail sorted it....this was a Westfield Megabusa solution i learned....
[Edited on 18/1/12 by richard thomas]
+1 HERE.
Mine is the same and never misses a beat on or off track.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajlF4nWJtGA
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Glade
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| posted on 7/3/12 at 03:33 PM |
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What about fuel filters?
I have two fuel filters with barbs that suit 8mm ID pipe.
A cheap low pressure yellow paper filter, and a high pressure metal cannister type fuel injection filter from a vauxhall vectra.
My swirl pot has 3x 10mm barbs, and a 1/2" connection to the pump, which has a matching 1/2" inlet connection.
I am thinking of filtering between the fuel tank and the lift pump, and between the lift pump and the swirl pot. (Using an 8mm-10mm reducer to connect
to swirl pot). This allows a straght 1/2" gravity feed from swirl pot, to high pressure pump.
But should I filter IMMEDIATELY before the HP pump in the 1/2" pipe?? Or is it OK to filter before the swirlpot and consider the system to be
isolated & clean.
Any idea about restrictors on the swirl pot return to stop the low pressure lift pump ticking over really quickly?? Maybe a ball valve inline...
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richard thomas
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| posted on 7/3/12 at 06:20 PM |
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I have an HP filter (sierra injection i think) directly after the HP fuel pump and before the fuel rail.....seems to work....
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Lebowski
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| posted on 22/3/12 at 02:15 AM |
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I used a pump and swirl pot from a duratec engined Scorpio, but this entailed spot welding the swirl pot into the bottom of the tank, then cutting and
silver soldering at the top of the tank to make the pump fit.
It's less complicated in the end but more work. Also, I had a new tank so wasn't worried about welding it.
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