Johneturbo
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| posted on 22/7/08 at 08:45 PM |
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Pushrod is on top now so that the circlip is facing down, due to my bearing pulling out the other way.
Stu it's not a tracking thing it was the same before i got it 4 way laser tracked.
the shocks are not doing their job or not being allowed to.
if i jack the car up and disconnect the pushrod i can move the wheels up and down freely.
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Agriv8
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| posted on 22/7/08 at 08:54 PM |
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HI chaps,
Rug rat is teathing so I have about 1 1/2 minutes before the screams start to make my ears bleed.
rocker look too far rotated to me but could be wrong.
So I would
Test 1
Disconect the push rod from the bottom wishbone ( easiest one to disconect !) and see if the upright moves freeley ( ie through its bump and droop )
this will check that all the joints are free .
If yes
Test 2 ( while disconected from the bottom wishbone )
Disconect the shocker from the rocker and check that the rocker moves freely ( check that non of the bearings have nipped up )
I know Mark is too and fro with SVA's this week but I'll see if I can get a message through to him tomorow.
oh report back with findings
Right off to administer Calpol
regards
Agriv8
edited to add just joney turbo reda you last post so miss test 1
[Edited on 22/7/08 by Agriv8]
Taller than your average Guy !
Management is like a tree of monkeys. - Those at the top look down and see a tree full of smiling faces. BUT Those at the bottom look up and see a
tree full of a*seholes .............
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Andy W
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| posted on 22/7/08 at 09:16 PM |
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With my circlip on the bottom, pushrod is also on the bottom
Andy
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jacko
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| posted on 22/7/08 at 09:17 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Andy W
which way round is the bottom wishbone, is the push rod mounted on the top or bottom of the bone? this will alter the angle of the rocker
Andy
I'm with Andy on this one the wishbone bolts on the push rod go under the bone
thats what they were like on the demo car at newark show
[Edited on 22/7/08 by jacko]
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Andy W
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| posted on 22/7/08 at 09:20 PM |
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Andy
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jacko
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| posted on 22/7/08 at 09:26 PM |
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Will this help SNAP
 
New Nose Front
[Edited on 22/7/08 by jacko]
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JoelP
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| posted on 23/7/08 at 06:27 AM |
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job done, thats your problem. Compensating for the extra 2 inches of suspension height is taking the rocker to deep into rising rate territory.
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stuart_g
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| posted on 23/7/08 at 07:48 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
job done, thats your problem. Compensating for the extra 2 inches of suspension height is taking the rocker to deep into rising rate territory.
Not the case I'm afraid. My bones have the pushrod mount on the bottom and my suspension is also solid.
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RickRick
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| posted on 23/7/08 at 07:49 AM |
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is it not the case that people including me are fitting the wishbones with the push rod mount at the top, to gaurd against any chance of the circlip
locating the bearings failing?
having said that, my cars ridehight is currently to be measured in feet, as i just wound the springs up as much as i could before i put it on
it's wheels, and i guessed at the pushrod a few turns out each end, and i'm sure there's some movement in the suspension when i
bounce it
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TimC
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| posted on 23/7/08 at 08:04 AM |
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I had a look at mine last night having just flipped the 'bones over as per the safety advice. As a side note, I'm not convinced that this
isn't an unnecessary compromise and will get some advice on whether a new pair of bottom wishbones will serve me better. After all, it does
seem that the geometry is designed to have the push-rod mount on the bottom.
In terms of my rocker, as it stands, the pivot for the pushrod and that for the damper are at roughly equal heights so if you draw a line between the
centre of the two bolts, this line will be more-or-less parallel to the floor. Hence using Mark's multiplier diagrams, I'm somewhere
between 2:1 and 3:1. I do have a little droop at the front so need to wind the pushrods out a bit, which I guess will take me closer to 3:1.
Now, people need to bear in mind that I have 13s and modestly side-walled slicks but my lowest chassis rail at the front is only 100mm or so from the
floor. Also consider that my chassis is different to most others so I'm not sure what difference that makes.
We need Mr Nordon's input me thinks.
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marc n
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| posted on 23/7/08 at 09:03 AM |
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appologies
i havent received any emails so i think my email must be on the blink again
im just leaving for sva i havent read it all but breifly
1. john i have had a quick look at some of your build pics and the front uprights are on upside down ( not sure when the photos where taken so you may
have rectified this ) so you could be experiencing balljoint lockout
2. the 175lb springs are what are fitted to the complete car we have here and with dampers on a soft setting i can jump up and down on the front end
and get plenty of movement nearly to the bumpstop
3. possible causes for very stiff front end
1. balljoint lockout
2. incorrectly valved dampers
3. incorrectly marked springs
to check springs please count number of coils and measure the diameter of coilspring wire
and i should be able to check with what we have here
if springs tally up then it can only be dampers
should be back by four so will check back in then
also if somone could do me a favour and send a test email just to make sure its working
cheers
marc
please email rather than u2u
direct workshop email ( manned 8am till 6pm )
www.mnrltd.co.uk enquireys to :-
chrismnrltd@btinternet.com
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Gergely
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| posted on 23/7/08 at 02:32 PM |
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Test email sent as I have also sent you a question two days ago.
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Johneturbo
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| posted on 23/7/08 at 03:23 PM |
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Hi Marc thanks for getting back to me.
your right, in that pic they are upside down, but that was only a temporary thing!
i've just had a count of the coils they are 10 including the half ones top and button.
when you say measure the spring do you mean the thickness of the coils? if so they are about 1cm ish.
anything else you want me to check, let me know.
cheers
john
[Edited on 23/7/08 by Johneturbo]
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Johneturbo
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| posted on 23/7/08 at 03:31 PM |
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TimC how do your lower wishbones sit? are they horizontal or just above?
now i've turned my lowers over, mine is just a bit below which i guess isn't ideal?
i've wound the springs almost down as far as they will go.
the only sulution i can think of is.
new wishbones with mount and circlip under
or shorter pushrods.
to get the rocker more level.
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TimC
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| posted on 23/7/08 at 03:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Johneturbo
TimC how do your lower wishbones sit? are they horizontal or just above?
now i've turned my lowers over, mine is just a bit below which i guess isn't ideal?
i've wound the springs almost down as far as they will go.
the only sulution i can think of is.
new wishbones with mount and circlip under
or shorter pushrods.
to get the rocker more level.
My wishbones are not quite parallel to the floor with the rose joint connected to the chassis brackets slightly lower than that connected to the
upright.
On your new wishbone comment, don't you mean circlip on top and pushrod mount under?
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Johneturbo
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| posted on 23/7/08 at 04:14 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by TimC
quote:
Originally posted by Johneturbo
TimC how do your lower wishbones sit? are they horizontal or just above?
now i've turned my lowers over, mine is just a bit below which i guess isn't ideal?
i've wound the springs almost down as far as they will go.
the only sulution i can think of is.
new wishbones with mount and circlip under
or shorter pushrods.
to get the rocker more level.
My wishbones are not quite parallel to the floor with the rose joint connected to the chassis brackets slightly lower than that connected to the
upright.
On your new wishbone comment, don't you mean circlip on top and pushrod mount under?
Hi Tim
no, the circlip was on top that's why it pulled out, it needs to be under.
I hope you've not turned yours over so the circlip is now on top!
[Edited on 23/7/08 by Johneturbo]
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TimC
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| posted on 23/7/08 at 04:25 PM |
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B**l*cks!!!!! I'm a pillock.
Well, sorry John, this won't help you but I think I'm sorted - just need to swap the bones back over! Oh, well, I'll be an expert
at it now!
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Johneturbo
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| posted on 23/7/08 at 04:31 PM |
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Stop watch at the ready!
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stuart_g
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| posted on 23/7/08 at 04:40 PM |
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I was told that I didn't have to turn the lower bones over and to leave the circlips on top.
This doesn't solve the problem of very stiff front suspension though. I have my rockers almost horizontal and have just jumped up and down on
the chassis at the front and the suspension barely moved.
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marc n
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| posted on 23/7/08 at 05:57 PM |
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im at home now, but can check tomorrow ref springs, if the suspension is moving freely minus connection to shocks and springs then then it can only be
either of those, as i say we have a 06 r1 car full car minus body and lights built up with 175lb spings and it compresses and returns lovely, in my
mind its got to be incorrectly marked springs ( im pretty sure protech wouldnt have got the valving wrong as they have done so many )
john did you get my email ref diffs etc
cheers
marc
please email rather than u2u
direct workshop email ( manned 8am till 6pm )
www.mnrltd.co.uk enquireys to :-
chrismnrltd@btinternet.com
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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marc n
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| posted on 23/7/08 at 06:00 PM |
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a breif explanation ref rocker design
1. made this way to exploit the full travel of the damper rather than a small portion
2. to allow a reasonably soft compliant car at road speed and when the car is pushed harder as in trackday a harder front end
cheers
marc
please email rather than u2u
direct workshop email ( manned 8am till 6pm )
www.mnrltd.co.uk enquireys to :-
chrismnrltd@btinternet.com
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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Johneturbo
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| posted on 23/7/08 at 10:17 PM |
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Marc
just checked emails last one i got from you was wednesday 16th, you said you had one to check, and was going to let me know.
cheers
john
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TimC
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| posted on 24/7/08 at 06:12 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by marc n
a breif explanation ref rocker design
1. made this way to exploit the full travel of the damper rather than a small portion
2. to allow a reasonably soft compliant car at road speed and when the car is pushed harder as in trackday a harder front end
cheers
marc
Yes, that makes sense, but Mark Chandler's drawing is good too, so is John's pushrod too long since he's clearly not able to use
much of the travel of the damper as it stands?
I'm just trying to understand what a correctly adjusted rocker set up should look like.
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marc n
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| posted on 24/7/08 at 10:35 AM |
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everyone should have had an email approx 3 weeks ago ref length of pushrods, those who have turned their wishbones over have got new pushrods here on
the shelf waiting for them, just need an email to confirm adresses etc
yours tim will be fine as you have the wishbone other way around
checked spings here they should have 10 coils including halves at 8mm dia
john sent emails to the john@johneturbo.com address
anyone who needs to contact me its much quicker and easier to email me as my phone can pick up the emails ( i have been at the workshop 1 day this
week due to sva tests so i dont get time to get on locostbuilders )
cheers
marc
please email rather than u2u
direct workshop email ( manned 8am till 6pm )
www.mnrltd.co.uk enquireys to :-
chrismnrltd@btinternet.com
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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Johneturbo
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| posted on 24/7/08 at 02:39 PM |
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Hi Marc
That email addy has be dead for 2 years now.
i'ts .co.uk
the same one i've been emailing you with,since i first started the build!
so your springs there are the same as what i have here. does that elimnate the springs being the problem? is there anyway i can check the shocks?
cheers
john
edited to say, i'm off work tomorrow marc, so will be down in the garage all day going over the car. so if you get a spare 5mins to call that
would be great
07861668823
[Edited on 24/7/08 by Johneturbo]
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