Avoneer
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| posted on 26/12/05 at 12:50 AM |
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Spraying - advice please
Hi,
My plan is to spray my scuttle, bonnet, nose cone, rear arches and cycle wings in either plain black or gray and then laquer everything with some
silver metal flake in the laquer.
I am no sprayer, but can borrow a compressor.
How hard would it be for me to spray everything in the base colour and then take the parts to a bodyshop to be laquered, or is the laquer bit easy
enough?
Anyone know roughly how much paint I will need for the base coat and the lacquer?
Cheers,
Pat...
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froggy
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| posted on 26/12/05 at 09:15 AM |
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a litre of each will be plenty, the tricky bit is getting the base coat on even .
if your using metal flake youll need an anti static strip and a fog light fitted underneath your car, oh and furry dice
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Avoneer
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| posted on 26/12/05 at 10:29 AM |
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So after sanding everything down:
1 - 3 coats of primer rubbing down between each coat with 400 grade wet n dry.
1 - 3 coats of cellulose base coat mixed with cellulose thinners (50-50 for 1st coat, 40-60 for 2nd coat and 30-70 for final coat - 2nd number being
the paint).
1 - 3 coats of cellulose laquer mixed with cellulose thinners as above.
How does that sound?
Pat...
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froggy
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| posted on 26/12/05 at 10:50 AM |
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i wuoldnt bother with cellulose ,go for 2pack surfacer (primer)and single pack base coat and laquer. if you really want the glitter then put it in
your first laquer coat and not in any other to give depth to the shine. the base coat if tis a metallic finish give it a good first coat then flat
with 1000grade hit it again then leave it for laquer.its ambitious for a first go but its all in the prep.
if you have the room hang everything up to paint it as anything flat will get covered in poo if your doing it at home.
if the compressor is under 3hp/14cfm keep aneye on the pressure set your gun for 40psi and if the compressor kicks in stop spraying til tis full
again.
i shouldnt worry too much about thinner ratios as youll have to flat and polish the laquer anyway
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 26/12/05 at 10:59 AM |
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quote:
1 - 3 coats of cellulose base coat mixed with cellulose thinners (50-50 for 1st coat, 40-60 for 2nd coat and 30-70 for final coat - 2nd number being
the paint).
Should that not be 2nd number for the thinners Avoneer?
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rayward
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| posted on 26/12/05 at 11:08 AM |
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Pat, if you were thinking of doing it in your garage, then forget it, integral garage is not good for spraying(i know from experience!!),i thought it
should be more thinners:less paint on your final coats aswell
Ray
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froggy
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| posted on 26/12/05 at 11:12 AM |
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if it wasnt being painted in a garage then yes perhaps thin the final laquer coat but as there WILL be lots of bits to flat out of the laquer then its
not worth it
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Avoneer
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| posted on 26/12/05 at 11:16 AM |
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Yes - got that bit with the thinners/paint the wrong way round.
Froggy - isn't that 2 pack and single pack the nasty stuff and cost more?
Ray - thinking of hiring a bloddy big extractor fan and covering the walls and floor in big plastic sheets. Was it the smell that was the problem?
Pat...
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 26/12/05 at 11:29 AM |
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Pat,
You will need 1+1 litre etching high build primer, 1 1/2 litres of polyester basecoat and 1 litre thinner, 1 1/2 litres of single pack clear.
2pack will kill you, a large extractor fan will just suck dust onto your work, and metalflake in the lacquer is a beast of a job, even holoflakes are
difficult.
If you base up the car and take it to a bodyshop for clearing, you will have to do it in 20 mins as this is the critical recoat time, clear it in more
than this time, it will all peel off in about 3 months like sunburn.
If you go the holoflake route, put down a black basecoat, and spray with flake colour of your choice, remember my wheels!
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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froggy
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| posted on 26/12/05 at 11:33 AM |
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2 pack surfacer is officially nasty but its overblown because of a minute amount of iso cyanatre in it . it wont give you any probs with fibreglass
and gives a good thick primer coat so you should only need two coats before base coat .
you will need a mask anyway as celly thinners hasnt exactly got vitamins in it has it!
2k primer is about £13 a litre with activator and base coat is around £10 per half litre mixed, base coat thinners £6 laquer around £12 litre
the best finish you can hope for is orange peel in the laquer which means you have plenty on to flat off with 1200 wet and dry.
cellulose is a pain to work with as its very thin and takes plenty of coats to get a good shine .modern base coat shells off much quicker so less
chance of bits in the paint. as far as mixing i use the drip method which is a welding rod dipped in the pot and pulled out should go drip drip drip
as you say it will be fine.
plastic sheets wet the floor and dont have the gun pressure and youl be ok but you will have to flat and polish everything as you would with celly.
reckon about £80 for paint and bits like tack rags ,stopper,tape.
take your time with the primer and get plenty of laquer on and it,ll be fine after flatting farecla g3 then g6 and wax ,job done
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 26/12/05 at 11:40 AM |
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Stunned silence
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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froggy
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| posted on 26/12/05 at 11:43 AM |
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is that directed at me?
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 26/12/05 at 12:35 PM |
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I have two friends that worked with 2 pack that didn't take proper precautions . Both are off work for that reason! DON'T TAKE CHANCES.
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froggy
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| posted on 26/12/05 at 01:17 PM |
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i wasnt advocating drinking the stuff! im sure that non iso filler primers are available but for a one off with a decent mask i cant see a problem.
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 26/12/05 at 04:30 PM |
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Thats why you cannot get life insurance, my sympathy to your family
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 26/12/05 at 04:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by froggy
2 pack surfacer is officially nasty but its overblown because of a minute amount of iso cyanatre in it .
It's not the iso-cyanate that's the real problem - it's the fact that any spray particles that arrive in your lungs will never be
absorbed or removed (unlike cellulose).
This exposes the lungs to a high risk of either cancer or a similar disease to silicosis (the miner's disease).
Best left to the professionals...
David
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froggy
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| posted on 26/12/05 at 05:41 PM |
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i think i did say use a good mask though!
surely the same goes for polyester based paints then and fettling fibreglass too?
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 26/12/05 at 05:59 PM |
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I agree with most of Davids post, but the isocyanate IS a real problem, it is cumulative. Your body has a certain threshold of tollerance to it. It
may be 250mg per 1000g or it may be 1mg per 1000g, and there is only one way to find out.
Especially at this time of year I am a bit sensitive (sorry froggy), I have taken presents to a 6 year old and an 8 year old who don't have a
Daddy, he died when they were 3 and 5 years old at the age of 32. We tried to make the last 9 months of his life the best, but nothing would
compensate for having him back, it may not have been isocyanate, but a sprayer for the last 8 years of his life, and lung cancer in a non smoker is
very unusual.
DON'T use isocyanate at home, you should't be able get hold of it, unless you are a registered bodyshop, but if the local supplier does
supplier does sell it to you, I personally would report them to the local EPA officer in the council.
The average length of a book build is 2 1/2 years, you could die in less.
Live to enjoy you car, don't use 2K at home
Merry Christmas
Mark
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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stevebubs
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| posted on 26/12/05 at 06:13 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark Allanson
If you base up the car and take it to a bodyshop for clearing, you will have to do it in 20 mins as this is the critical recoat time, clear it in more
than this time, it will all peel off in about 3 months like sunburn.
Why is it that bikes etc with expensive airbrush art don't peal? These can take weeks between base coat, graphics being applied and final
lacquer.....
Is there something special they do, or am I just not grasping something fundamentally different?
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stevebubs
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| posted on 26/12/05 at 06:14 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by froggy
i think i did say use a good mask though!
surely the same goes for polyester based paints then and fettling fibreglass too?
Can't speak on the former, but definitely the case with fibreglass....
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Avoneer
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| posted on 26/12/05 at 06:26 PM |
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What makes the metal flake so hard to spray???
Can I put it in the clear coat instead of the laquer?
If I give up with the metal flake idea, will I still need any clear coat or lacquer???
Pat...
No trees were killed in the sending of this message.
However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 26/12/05 at 06:26 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by stevebubs
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Allanson
If you base up the car and take it to a bodyshop for clearing, you will have to do it in 20 mins as this is the critical recoat time, clear it in more
than this time, it will all peel off in about 3 months like sunburn.
They lacquer that days work, then scotch it back and start again, I don't think the fancy art work tends to get the same day to day wear that
the avaerage car gets
Why is it that bikes etc with expensive airbrush art don't peal? These can take weeks between base coat, graphics being applied and final
lacquer.....
Is there something special they do, or am I just not grasping something fundamentally different?
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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Triton
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| posted on 26/12/05 at 06:34 PM |
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Spraying is a black art and best left to those who know what they are doing and have the right kit to do it with.
My Daughter has taken over production of the damn fine Triton race seats and her contact email is emmatrs@live.co.uk.
www.tritonraceseats.com
www.hairyhedgehog.com
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froggy
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| posted on 26/12/05 at 06:38 PM |
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fair comments 2k isnt for home use but i think the original thread was about painting at home in general. the point i was trying to make was that a
lot of us dont have the budget for professional paint finishing so home painting is something that must be considered and you can get reasonable
results with basic kit.
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 26/12/05 at 07:13 PM |
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I should also add that I lost a neighbour to lung disease a few years back - he specialised in spraying dinky toys in company livery for promotional
events. He was very bad with health and safety, using all sorts of paint in his airbrush, without a mask. These paints included 2-pack iso-cyanide
etch primer. which he used a lot.
He left a wife and 2 teenage daughters.
DJ
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